Waco, Weaver, Brown

Lawprof · Post by **Lawprof** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:27 pm

And finally, my biggest pet peeve of them all: people who barricade themselves in side their homes claiming they have a god-given/constitutional/natural law right to kill anyone who comes in for them.

First of all, remember that the authorities in Waco, Weaver and Brown all had WARRANTS when they first approached the people who would hole themselves up. READ THE CONSTITUTION PEOPLE! There is a provision for the government to arrest you so long as they have a WARRANT. (4th Amendment) That means, with the warrant, they are WITHIN their constitutional rights to come to your house, kick down the door and drag you off if you don't want to make nice and play along. (And there is reams of case law in support of that.) The Feds (or whoever has the warrant) do not have to set up barricades and wait until you get bored or your cable gets cut off and you come out on your own.

Koresh wanted to be a martyr. Weaver sacrificed a kid, The Browns will probably go next. I hate to be the one to broach this ugly topic like this but: IF THEY COME FOR YOU WITH A WARRANT, GO WITH THEM. If the warrant is flawed, incorrect, baseless etc, you FIGHT IT IN COURT. That is one of the reasons that the Constitution was written the way it was - so not every wack job with a gun could declare himself above the law. YOU CAN'T PICK PARTS OF THE CONSTITUTION YOU LIKE AND DISREGARD THE REST.

The people who would disregard the lawful portions of the constitution are the ones who should be shipped out of the US and told to never come back. Oh, and I saw on another website where someone said that gun ownership was a "god given" right. If that's true, why did he wait until the 18th century to give us the guns?

LP

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:53 pm

YOU CAN'T PICK PARTS OF THE CONSTITUTION YOU LIKE AND DISREGARD THE REST.

Actually, the secret 13th Amendment says I can.

But only me. Not you.

Imalawman · Post by **Imalawman** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:07 pm

CaptainKickback wrote:My mom said I could.

And the voices in my head.

And God/Yahweh/Jehovah/Allah.

And the neighbor's dog, Sam.

What was the name of the clowns in the Carolinas that shot two law enforcement officers and dragged one of them into the house and let him bleed to death? It was a father, mother, grown adult loser son set of carpetbaggers from one of those dinky little New England states.

Let LawProf read up on that family. My opinion is that the entire family should have already been summarily executed.

hey, it was SOUTH carolina. Big difference. Since I was born and raised in grand ol' NORTH carolina, I'm a little sensative about lumping the two together. Shame on you.

Post by **Demosthenes** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:16 pm

The name in the South Carolina case was Steven Bixby. The Bixby family was originally from New Hampshire and tried to argue the New Hampshire constitution in a South Carolina death penalty case.

There are even some ties to the Brown family...

Lawprof · Post by **Lawprof** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:26 pm

Yes, add the Bixbys to the list. I just read a few articles about them. Crazy murderers and nothing more.

LP

Post by **Joey Smith** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:56 pm

If you listen to their radio interviews, the *logic* goes something like this: (1) man makes law; therefore (2) law is below man; therefore (3) man is above the law; therefore (4) the laws are not binding on man and man can interpret the laws to his own advantage.

Post by **grixit** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:00 pm

The official list of "failed states" for this year has just been released. A failed state is a country without an effective government.

those are places where you can indeed hole up in your house and claim unlimited rights. Problem is, so can your neighbors.

Post by **Judge Roy Bean** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:01 pm

Like it or not, crazy people can't be outlawed. We have to wait until they do something illegal.

One thing some of the regulars around Quatloos seem to lose sight of from time to time is the fact that this is a big country and there are a lot of people who really don't care what the denizens of Washington, the east and west coasts and the various state capitols think, let alone do.

We tend to get wrapped up in the issues as if the "normal" citizen lives in or near a large city, works in a profession or with professionals, drives an SUV (or two), travels frequently and not only knows something about the law but might even have friends who are (God forbid) attorneys or even judges.

Trust me - it just ain't like that out here.

ErsatzAnatchist · Post by **ErsatzAnatchist** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:11 pm

grixit wrote:The official list of "failed states" for this year has just been released. A failed state is a country without an effective government.

those are places where you can indeed hole up in your house and claim unlimited rights. Problem is, so can your neighbors.

Where can I get a list of these "failed states"? I have a few people I would like to suggest that they go and visit these fine bastions of individual freedom.

Post by **grixit** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:30 pm

That's last year's list.

Try
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms. ... ry_id=3865

01. Sudan
02. Iraq
03. Somalia
04. Zimbabwe
05. Chad
06. Ivory Coast
07. Congo
08. Afghanistan
09. Guinea
10. Central African Republic
11. Haiti
12. Pakistan
13. North Korea
14. Burma
15. Uganda

So many gems to choose from.

Imalawman · Post by **Imalawman** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:36 pm

You know I've already suggested Uganda to several tax protestors. I'd even accompany them there and show them around. (and point and laugh when they want to come home)

But seriously, I think if more Americans spent time in third world countries we'd have less TPs and PNJ's.

Post by **The Observer** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:57 pm

grixit wrote:The official list of "failed states" for this year has just been released. A failed state is a country without an effective government.

those are places where you can indeed hole up in your house and claim unlimited rights. Problem is, so can your neighbors.

13. North Korea

Somehow, I don't see people being able to claim unlimited rights in that worker's paradise.

ErsatzAnatchist · Post by **ErsatzAnatchist** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:39 pm

The Observer wrote:
grixit wrote:The official list of "failed states" for this year has just been released. A failed state is a country without an effective government.

those are places where you can indeed hole up in your house and claim unlimited rights. Problem is, so can your neighbors.

13. North Korea
Somehow, I don't see people being able to claim unlimited rights in that worker's paradise.

Well, there are always the following bastions of personal liberty and individualism:

03. Somalia
04. Zimbabwe
05. Chad
06. Ivory Coast
07. Congo

[/quote]

Doktor Avalanche · Post by **Doktor Avalanche** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:39 am

The Observer wrote:
grixit wrote:The official list of "failed states" for this year has just been released. A failed state is a country without an effective government.

those are places where you can indeed hole up in your house and claim unlimited rights. Problem is, so can your neighbors.

13. North Korea
Somehow, I don't see people being able to claim unlimited rights in that worker's paradise.

Having looked over the fence at it from South Korea I'd have to agree with you.

This North Korean has never watched an episode of "Friends"

Post by **The Observer** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:47 am

On the other hand, he looks to be overjoyed at the thought of not having to live under a fraudulent 16th Amendment.

Post by **webhick** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:57 pm

The Observer wrote:On the other hand, he looks to be overjoyed at the thought of not having to live under a fraudulent 16th Amendment.

Or the missing 13th. Trouble is, once you've lived under the 13th amendment, you can't get out of it. I'll send a copy of it via intern down to Conspiracy Central this afternoon. It's really good stuff. Some of my best work.

Post by **The Observer** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:17 pm

webhick wrote:
The Observer wrote:On the other hand, he looks to be overjoyed at the thought of not having to live under a fraudulent 16th Amendment.
Or the missing 13th. Trouble is, once you've lived under the 13th amendment, you can't get out of it. I'll send a copy of it via intern down to Conspiracy Central this afternoon. It's really good stuff. Some of my best work.

If it's missing, you can't send it. That is the whole point of why we made it "missing." Sending me a copy of the 13th amendment is going to start unraveling the whole conspiracy.

Post by **webhick** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:27 pm

The Observer wrote:
webhick wrote:
The Observer wrote:On the other hand, he looks to be overjoyed at the thought of not having to live under a fraudulent 16th Amendment.
Or the missing 13th. Trouble is, once you've lived under the 13th amendment, you can't get out of it. I'll send a copy of it via intern down to Conspiracy Central this afternoon. It's really good stuff. Some of my best work.
If it's missing, you can't send it. That is the whole point of why we made it "missing." Sending me a copy of the 13th amendment is going to start unraveling the whole conspiracy.

It's only "missing" for those without clearance. You have clearance, congratulations.

Imalawman · Post by **Imalawman** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:45 pm

CaptainKickback wrote:In reality, the "missing 13th Amendment" merely said that the President would be formally called Mr. Bobo and the Vice-President would be formally called Mr. Prickly-britches.

I thought that was the twelfth amendment?

Kimokeo · Post by **Kimokeo** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:18 pm

How much money has been paid out due to lawsuits from Waco and Ruby? When the gov't enforces the law, haven't they had to pay out because of lawsuits?

I'll never forget Wilson Goode burning down Philadelphia and then having to pay out for the stupidity. Of course, the actions of the criminals started the fire-ball rolling