Stevens and Standing
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Re: Stevens and Standing
In a prolix and repetitive blog entry, Stevens has responded to this thread. He really says nothing that he hasn't said before, except that he specifically addresses 26 USC 7402(b), the statute that gives the USDCs jurisdiction over the enforcement of IRS summonses. He rambles on and on without ever saying that, under his expert tutelage, one Marc Edwards was sanctioned several thousand dollars for using exactly this argument. We've discussed that case in some detail, beginning here.
For some reason, despite the explicit grant of jurisdiction by Congress, and despite the IRS summons demanding records and a taxpayer refusing to provide them, Stevens concludes that a 7402(b) suit is not a "case or controversy". Someone with more patience than I can go through his cites, if s/he wishes; the opinions of the USDC and the Circuit in Edwards (and a thousand other summons enforcement cases) are good enough for me. Moreover, the very first cite Stevens drops following his quote of 7402(b) is a case concerning mining rights. Shoshone Mining Co. v. Rutter, 177 U.S. 505 (1900). Unless the taxpayer in question buried his records, the relevance is not immediately obvious.
For some reason, despite the explicit grant of jurisdiction by Congress, and despite the IRS summons demanding records and a taxpayer refusing to provide them, Stevens concludes that a 7402(b) suit is not a "case or controversy". Someone with more patience than I can go through his cites, if s/he wishes; the opinions of the USDC and the Circuit in Edwards (and a thousand other summons enforcement cases) are good enough for me. Moreover, the very first cite Stevens drops following his quote of 7402(b) is a case concerning mining rights. Shoshone Mining Co. v. Rutter, 177 U.S. 505 (1900). Unless the taxpayer in question buried his records, the relevance is not immediately obvious.
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Re: Stevens and Standing
Prolix. A wonderful word that accurately describes virtually every TP idiot ever to come down the pike.
As has been said, mostly by salesmen, if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit. There's no other reason to take 87 pages to lie about and obfuscate simple stuff easily laid out in a sentence or two.
Of course, "clients" like Edwards will never figure that out, not even after they get whacked for a few thousand dollars in sanctions for following their pied piper of the moment. It must really suck to be that ignorant, not to mention stupid.
As has been said, mostly by salesmen, if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit. There's no other reason to take 87 pages to lie about and obfuscate simple stuff easily laid out in a sentence or two.
Of course, "clients" like Edwards will never figure that out, not even after they get whacked for a few thousand dollars in sanctions for following their pied piper of the moment. It must really suck to be that ignorant, not to mention stupid.
All the States incorporated daughter corporations for transaction of business in the 1960s or so. - Some voice in Van Pelt's head, circa 2006.
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Re: Stevens and Standing
In one sentence, Stevens actually says it all:
Perhaps Stevens could give the IRS the finger, and test out his opinions on his own behalf. But that would mean that he would have to pay the sanctions himself, rather than some poor schmuck who listens to him.
Given that it is federal judges who interpret federal law, Stevens means that just one opinion interests him: his own.I’m not really interested in the opinion of federal judges, only if the law permits federal courts to hear these IRS civil complaints or not.
Perhaps Stevens could give the IRS the finger, and test out his opinions on his own behalf. But that would mean that he would have to pay the sanctions himself, rather than some poor schmuck who listens to him.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
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Re: Stevens and Standing
Stevens can't even see his own hypocrisy: His entire position is based on (out-of-context) statements of JUDGES, and indeed the entire first paragraph of his rebuttal is nothing but quotes from JUDGES.
Then, later he says that he doesn't care what judges say.
It is the typical tax protestor idiot view of the law: They embrace legal quotes as gospel when they are favorable, and they throw them away as biased when they are not.
Let's see Stevens attempt to make his argument without quoting any judge. He can't, of course.
Stevens also quotes judges while at the same time ignoring that judges routinely send tax protestors to jail for violating the law, which is just more cumulative proof of the extent to which Stevens falsely takes judicial statements out-of-context to make his blatantly wrong points.
Then, later he says that he doesn't care what judges say.
It is the typical tax protestor idiot view of the law: They embrace legal quotes as gospel when they are favorable, and they throw them away as biased when they are not.
Let's see Stevens attempt to make his argument without quoting any judge. He can't, of course.
Stevens also quotes judges while at the same time ignoring that judges routinely send tax protestors to jail for violating the law, which is just more cumulative proof of the extent to which Stevens falsely takes judicial statements out-of-context to make his blatantly wrong points.
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Re: Stevens and Standing
And he demonstrates that disinterest by repeatedly (and persistently) mischaracterizing what judges have said.Marc Stevens wrote:I’m not really interested in the opinion of federal judges, only if the law permits federal courts to hear these IRS civil complaints or not.
The only opinions he's interested in are the ones that he can twist and quote of out context.
He also has no interest in the actual language of the Constitution or the statutes of the United States.
What's it called when the only thing you're interested in is your own opinion?
Dan Evans
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
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Re: Stevens and Standing
Adolescence?LPC wrote:What's it called when the only thing you're interested in is your own opinion?
When chosen for jury duty, tell the judge "fortune cookie says guilty" - A fortune cookie
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Re: Stevens and Standing
Stevens also seems to guzzle the "Courts Are Corrupt" kool-aid on a regular basis. Any court ruling which does not adopt Stevens's reasoning is, by its very nature, corrupt and not to be respected.
It's a wonderful all-purpose excuse for TDers. I think of it as an example of "table-pounding", which comes from the old joke about an old lawyer telling a rookie, "when you are in court, and you are weak on the law, 'pound' the facts. When you are weak on the facts, 'pound' the law. When you are weak on both the law and the facts, pound the counsel table."
It's a wonderful all-purpose excuse for TDers. I think of it as an example of "table-pounding", which comes from the old joke about an old lawyer telling a rookie, "when you are in court, and you are weak on the law, 'pound' the facts. When you are weak on the facts, 'pound' the law. When you are weak on both the law and the facts, pound the counsel table."
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Re: Stevens and Standing
Doesn't that usually end with the judge telling you to pound sand?
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Re: Stevens and Standing
For all but the dumbest judges, yes. Some of them (appointed because they have the right patron, or elected because they are the most pliable) can be intimidated by the right blowhard attorney....Gregg wrote:Doesn't that usually end with the judge telling you to pound sand?
"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture." -- Pastor Ray Mummert, Dover, PA, during an attempt to introduce creationism -- er, "intelligent design", into the Dover Public Schools
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Re: Stevens and Standing
Mental masturbation.LPC wrote:What's it called when the only thing you're interested in is your own opinion?
"I could be dead wrong on this" - Irwin Schiff
"Do you realize I may even be delusional with respect to my income tax beliefs? " - Irwin Schiff
"Do you realize I may even be delusional with respect to my income tax beliefs? " - Irwin Schiff
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Re: Stevens and Standing
...and he's so dumb he still pulls his pants down for that.
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Re: Stevens and Standing
Megalomania?LPC wrote:
What's it called when the only thing you're interested in is your own opinion?
Borderline psychotic disorder with Narcissistic tenancies?
Stupid?
All of the above?
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Re: Stevens and Standing
A more damning claim is made somewhat later:wserra wrote:In one sentence, Stevens actually says it all:I’m not really interested in the opinion of federal judges, only if the law permits federal courts to hear these IRS civil complaints or not.
That's right, Stevens has admitted that both Congress and the Supreme Court disagree with him. Congress has created "legal rights" that Stevens believes do not reflect real injuries, and the Supreme Court has ("without any rational basis") held that those statutes create standing.The supreme court has held, without any rational basis, that congress can create legal rights and the invasion of them would then constitute an injury to then confer standing in a federal court:
Once again, snide remarks fail me.
Dan Evans
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
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Re: Stevens and Standing
You need the updated set of snide remarks.LPC wrote:Once again, snide remarks fail me.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
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Re: Stevens and Standing
You simply fail to appreciate that Stevens is smarter than every other person on the entire planet... past and present. tsk, tsk.LPC wrote:A more damning claim is made somewhat later:wserra wrote:In one sentence, Stevens actually says it all:I’m not really interested in the opinion of federal judges, only if the law permits federal courts to hear these IRS civil complaints or not.That's right, Stevens has admitted that both Congress and the Supreme Court disagree with him. Congress has created "legal rights" that Stevens believes do not reflect real injuries, and the Supreme Court has ("without any rational basis") held that those statutes create standing.The supreme court has held, without any rational basis, that congress can create legal rights and the invasion of them would then constitute an injury to then confer standing in a federal court:
Once again, snide remarks fail me.
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Re: Stevens and Standing
Well, I mean after all, didn't Mark declare his absolute wonderfulness and immensity of brilliance in the preface of his book?
What more proof could you possibly want or need than that of his genius?
What more proof could you possibly want or need than that of his genius?
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.