Liberty Dollar Update

[The Observer]

...while cursing the name of Von Nothaus.

[Gregg]

It's not unlikely that he has poo for records and if anyone fails to respond to this latest call of his he can say "too bad, you lost, call the government" to anyone who comes calling at a later date. On the outside chance he gets back any of the stuff they took, anything above what is claimed (through him and him only under his instructions) he gets to keep.

[notorial dissent]

While I am quite certain that is what he is thinking, it is more likely that there won't be anything left to keep once this is all over with, since I rather suspect that the gov't will ultimately seize all of it based on either contraband or corrupt endeavor product. Von Nutjob is going to be in jail, for quite some time to come, and his "clients" are going to be out in the cold with their worthless and unenforeceable warehouse receipts and paid but unfilled orders. The ironic part is that they got screwed on the initial transaction, regardless of what they paid out, and then they get screwed again for having purchased something from a now convicted con man. I can't even really work up much in the way of sympathy for his victims, since they got there by way of greed and willing complicit stupidity.

[LPC]

I strongly suspect that a good many of his clientele will simply and quietly eat their losses rather than draw the govt's attention to themselves.

Which presupposes that they have some sense.

But if they had some sense, they never would have gotten involved in von Nothaus's scam to begin with.

[notorial dissent]

Fortinbras' statement while essentially true, ignores the fact that by now the gov't should have all of von Nutburt's records, such as they are, which should lead directly back to all of his "clients", so I think whether they file a claim or not, avoiding gov't attention at this point is probably a moot point, and may well be the least of their worries.

Let's put it this way, if I had been laundering money through Nutty, or trying to hide assets, I would be really really nervous right about now.

The rest of his dupes on the other hand, I think are, are just plain old SOL, in that their slugs are probably going to be forfeit as counterfeit product, and therefore without recourse in the matter, and I wouldn't bet that the warehouse receipt owners will fare any better for similar reasons.

[Thule]

But if they had some sense, they never would have gotten involved in von Nothaus's scam to begin with.

I have a hunch that you will find people trying to hide smaller sums from child support, ex-spouse, IRS and such.

As for the more professional criminals with huge amounts of dirty money to launder, I suspect they will stay away from guys like Nuthouse. Trust and discretion are important when you want to hide large sums, and Nuthouse seems to be a bit short on both.

Which is good for him, of course. It means that he will be slightly safer in prison.

[GoldandSilverEagles]

An interesting, yet sad article:

http://www.coinworld.com/articles/liber ... cal-atten/

[iplawyer]

An interesting, yet sad article:

http://www.coinworld.com/articles/liber ... cal-atten/

I disagree. It is neither.

[The Observer]

Let's talk about some of the sad things:

(1) Von Nothaus is 67 years old and facing the strong possibility he will die in prison. One would think that by this stage in life people would make better decisions that don't result in prison

(2) Nobody of importance at the trial is another indicator of the self-centeredness and greed of the sovereign citizen movement. As soon as the government focused on Von Nothaus, the rest of the paytriots failed to show and support him. In short, von Nothaus was another of their guinea pigs.

(3) The short amount of time that it took for trial and conviction showed just how far out of his depth VN was. He was so deep into his voodoo he couldn't see the writing on the wall.

(4) Another family was destroyed by a paytriot's wild-eyed dreams. His common-law wife will have nothing to show for living for 38 years with this fool, and his sons are going have to deal with the flotsam and jetsam for the rest of their lives.

(5) Despite von Nothaus knowing that 95% of all federal indictments result in a plea, and the fact that 95% of those cases that go to trial result in conviction means that von Nothaus could not even weigh the risk of his actions, that in fact he gambled on a whim, hoping that he would get a miracle acquittal. He would have gotten better odds playing Russian roulette.

(6) Finally, the mere fact that he can still say that this was all worth it shows that he is really into denial and that he will never be able to reconcile his actions with the consequences. That puts him in the category of Ed Brown, Dick Simkanin, and Irwin Schiff - a very sad group of people to be keeping company with.

[Gregg]

There is something about this case that troubles me. It is not just possible but indeed likely that a lot of people who bought either the Liberty Dollars or Warehouse Receipts were gullible but not trying to do anything underhanded. We all know people who just make stupid investments, and surely with the number of people he sold to, there are more than a few of these.
All of which begs the question, is the only recourse these people have is to sue Bernie personally, which is futile because he doesn't have two (real) nickels to rub together?

[Judge Roy Bean]

...

(5) Despite von Nothaus knowing that 95% of all federal indictments result in a plea, and the fact that 95% of those cases that go to trial result in conviction means that von Nothaus could not even weigh the risk of his actions, that in fact he gambled on a whim, hoping that he would get a miracle acquittal. He would have gotten better odds playing Russian roulette.

(6) Finally, the mere fact that he can still say that this was all worth it shows that he is really into denial and that he will never be able to reconcile his actions with the consequences. That puts him in the category of Ed Brown, Dick Simkanin, and Irwin Schiff - a very sad group of people to be keeping company with.

We are all fortunate that it's a very small group of people. Frankly, they are an almost insignificant percentage of the population that happens to draw our collective interest but not that of the average American.

Most people are clueless about these kinds of people; they can tell you who is on American Idol and name several of the teams in the sweet sixteen but if you ask them something like who Elizabeth Warren is they're clueless.

I would invite you to watch Jay Leno's 'Jaywalking' segments to see why we are faced with a collective ignorance that breeds nutballs. The Nuthouses, Borks, etc., etc., fill a void created by a failing educational system that turns out the Harvesters of the world.

It's fun in some ways to watch but from a long-term sociological standpoint, it does not bode well for a political system that relies on reason.

[Judge Roy Bean]

There is something about this case that troubles me. It is not just possible but indeed likely that a lot of people who bought either the Liberty Dollars or Warehouse Receipts were gullible but not trying to do anything underhanded. We all know people who just make stupid investments, and surely with the number of people he sold to, there are more than a few of these.
All of which begs the question, is the only recourse these people have is to sue Bernie personally, which is futile because he doesn't have two (real) nickels to rub together?

IMHO the recourse such 'victims' of his scheme have is balanced against their ability to prove they come to the court with clean hands. I am confident any number of them were 'innocent' investors but the reality of life is most of them were trying to play games.

[grixit]

Is it too late to learn to read and write Mandarin?

When they open whatever the chinese for "maquiladora" is, here, they will probably have free lessons.

[fortinbras]

Von NotHaus's clients don't necessarily have to prove clean hands to get their money, but the very fact that they were dealing with NotHaus will assure them of the unwelcome attentions of the IRS and some other govt agencies. Even if getting refunds were easy, a good many of those people would consider it more prudent to just walk away quietly.

[Arthur Rubin]

All of which begs the question, is the only recourse these people have is to sue Bernie personally, which is futile because he doesn't have two (real) nickels to rub together?

Could the "investors" file a Madoff claim on their tax returns (assuming they file tax returns)?

[fortinbras]

To begin with, for a Madoff claim (bad debt loss), they'd have to have adequate documentation.

For another thing, I am sure that revealing to the IRS that they were hiding cash with BVN this year would trigger IRS inquiries into their tax returns of previous years.

[.]

There are only two types of people other than collectors of curiosities who would do business with an dope-smoking idiot like VonNutball.

Those who are too stupid and/or ignorant to realize how astoundingly high the transaction costs were to buy unknown coins of unknown purity resellable only to other rubes on eBay. Even that shelf life is limited as eBay doesn't allow the sale of counterfeits and they'll become aware of this eventually.

Those trying to hide or launder money.

Claims in the seizure matter or tax deductions might be attempted by the rubes, the rest will probably remain remarkably silent.

[.]

As I said, rubes.

[Gregg]

"." - there is another group. There are the folks who are so hyper-paranoid/delusional about "da ebil gummint(s)" that they willingly avoid government minted gold coins (US or foreign) and will buy unregulated dross because they are sure it is free of the taint of "the NWO/Zionist/ebil gummint" taint. You know, morons. Willful morons, but morons none the less.

That's at least part of what I was talking about. Stupid is not criminal, even if it is just as funny sometimes.

[Pottapaug1938]

More on the von Nuthouse front:

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/a ... -focus-of/