So, I just got an e-mail...

[LandofOz]

As I explained before, a friend of mine fell in with the sovruns. I hadn't heard from him in weeks. I guess he was upset with me after I poked holes in what little he understood of the so-called "movement" and the fact that I turned his father and some other family against his ideas. Well, I get a phone call this morning and an earful about how wrong I am concerning the sovruns and that he was going to e-mail me some of the information he has picked up along the way. Most of what he sent me I refused to read just based on the grounds of what website they came from (I did read some of it, I just told him I didn't for those reasons). These are the links he sent me, some of it you may have seen before I'm sure. Anyone want to help me pick these apart? It could be fun!

http://www.famguardian.org/Publications ... 9ch04s.pdf

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4304912516#

http://sedm.org/Ministry/Immune.htm

http://www.boundaries-for-effective-min ... toknow.pdf

One other interesting tidbit -- he supposedly just returned from North Carolina where he picked up his new "indigenous" identification card/driver's license. He then begins this long tirade about how this is not a DL because as a sovrun he doesn't really need one, he states as a sovrun he has a right to drive without a legit DL. I really want to be there the first time he hands that to a LEO (of course I won't because I'm sane). I'm still trying to drag him back from the jaws of the sovruns but it seems his family and myself are losing the battle, but we haven't lost the war yet.

[LandofOz]

Lol Captain, I guess he's gonna be broke in there cause I ain't saving any cash for his commissary account, maybe his guru will.

I just got a text from him that he's at their "office" and everyone has Mu'ur Republic license plates on their vehicles. He asked if it isn't lawful then why do they have those plates and where did they get them. I called him back and when I explained that the group probably manufactured the plates themselves and they had no standing in the law he got belligerent and told me I had no idea what I was talking about. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

A quick google of Mu'ur Republic turned up this -- http://forums.officer.com/forums/showth ... viewfull=1

and this -- http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2496860/posts

"As a member of the Washitaw de Dugdahmoundyah Muur’s Indigenous People, El-Bey claims he is protected by the U.S. and state constitutions and the United Nations’ Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous People. "

I find it kind of sad that our LEOs don't know much about these groups. This is something all LE should be trained in and how to deal with.

And a "mission statement" from one of their "empires" -- http://www.muurishgansul.com/MissionStatement.pdf

Edit: Found one more interesting document floating around out there -- http://www.nationalrepublicregistry.com ... 000003.pdf

At first glance that appears legal and all but I can't find anyone other than the notary's signature and the sovrun's signature on there. Nice try guys but I have a hard time believing any of that will fly in a court of law. Love this snippet, "In addition, the Supreme Court ofthe united states in the "Dred Scott vs. Sanford" (1857) held that "Negroes - slaves or free
- were not included and were not intended to be included in the category of "citizen" as the word was used in the U.S. Constitution ..." Therefore, based upon these facts of the established law of the land, The true Moorish International Group of Science and Development and The Moorish.Science Temple of America (prophet Noble Drew Ali) of the Washitaw Empire
(Free Moors Mu'urs) "were not included and were not intended to be included" as "citizens" (subjects) of the Union States Rights Republic."

[Number Six]

I briefly looked through the first link on how it is unbiblical to give allegiance to or pay taxes for government.

R.J. Rushdooney is cited. His son-in-law runs a site, www.garynorth.com, where no honest questions are off-limits. $15 a month, free first month trial. He has dealt with these nuts for years, and convinced quite a few to give up their hopeless battles against the government.

Here is a similar anti-gov piece: http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/c_duty.htm

And a response: http://preacherstudy.com/pdf/weland1.pdf

Good luck. With these people I am reminded of "The Earth Men" chapter from The Martian Chronicles.

[LPC]

These are the links he sent me, some of it you may have seen before I'm sure. Anyone want to help me pick these apart? It could be fun!

http://www.famguardian.org/Publications ... 9ch04s.pdf

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4304912516#

http://sedm.org/Ministry/Immune.htm

http://www.boundaries-for-effective-min ... toknow.pdf

The first, third, and fourth links are to materials created (I am reluctant to call them "written") by Chris Hansen, who has claimed to be a "citizen of Heaven" and is currently under an injunction for promoting false schemes to evade taxes. From Tax Protester Dossiers:

The United States has obtained an injunction against Hansen for promoting false tax schemes, and the injunction has been affirmed on appeal to the Ninth Circuit. United States v. Christopher M. Hansen, No. 06-56011 (9th Cir. 5/6/2008) (sanctions of $8,000 imposed for frivolous appeal), aff'ng No. CV-05-00921-MJL/CAB, 2006 WL 4075446 (U.S.D.C. S.D.Cal. 12/13/2006). It appears from Hansen's web sites that he has not complied with the injunction, and the government filed a motion for civil contempt which was denied on 4/30/2007 for procedural reasons and without prejudice.

I checked the District Court docket, and nothing has been filed since the 9th Circuit affirmed the injunction in 2008.

[Olsenfin]

If Joe Sovrun insists that he is a citizen of "heaven" and not subject to the laws of the United States, I think it reasonable that he should be returned to his own country.

[The Operative]

If Joe Sovrun insists that he is a citizen of "heaven" and not subject to the laws of the United States, I think it reasonable that he should be returned to his own country.

I have always been a fan or deportation of these types. In fact, I have even offered to perform the deportation. Using my cabin cruiser, I'll take them 30 to 50 miles out to sea and throw them off the port side.

[LandofOz]

If Joe Sovrun insists that he is a citizen of "heaven" and not subject to the laws of the United States, I think it reasonable that he should be returned to his own country.

I have always been a fan or deportation of these types. In fact, I have even offered to perform the deportation. Using my cabin cruiser, I'll take them 30 to 50 miles out to sea and throw them off the port side.

Wouldn't it make more sense to take them up a few miles in a plane and toss them out without a parachute? At least for one fleeting second they will be in "heaven".

[Olsenfin]

"Wouldn't it make more sense to take them up a few miles in a plane and toss them out without a parachute? At least for one fleeting second they will be in "heaven"."

And they would, in that process, discover that they are subject to yet another law - that of gravity.

[Pottapaug1938]

If Joe Sovrun insists that he is a citizen of "heaven" and not subject to the laws of the United States, I think it reasonable that he should be returned to his own country.

I have always been a fan or deportation of these types. In fact, I have even offered to perform the deportation. Using my cabin cruiser, I'll take them 30 to 50 miles out to sea and throw them off the port side.

Wouldn't it make more sense to take them up a few miles in a plane and toss them out without a parachute? At least for one fleeting second they will be in "heaven".

And I believe that they'll get what is referred to, in one of Tom Clancy's books, as a "flying lesson" -- if they learn to fly before they hit the ground, fine....

[LandofOz]

http://www.newsleader.com/article/20110 ... n-citizen-

Gotta love these folks! This seems like it will come back as a lien against the officer doesn't it?

"Simmons said he asked Jones to exit his vehicle 10 times and threatened to break his window before the suspect finally agreed to comply. But after Jones exited his vehicle, a brief struggle ensued as Simmons tried to handcuff him, court records show."

I would have given him 3 chances and after the 3rd I would have called him "out" and broke the window. Now, where was I in explaining this nonsense of the phony license plates and ID cards to my problem "friend"?

[Number Six]

I would let him know after patiently explaining the law to him, and why it developed as it has over a long, long period of time, that you cannot be friendly with someone who is denying reality as he is. These people will make you as crazy as they are, just as alcoholics and drug addicts make their "loved ones" crazy trying to help them. He may need to hit bottom. He needs a job, a real fellowship, and an exercise routine to get him out of the negativity, and professionals who have seen many of his type before. Ignore narcissists!