From Thin Air - New Dinar RV Thread

[LaVidaRoja]

Was that Boehner or his aide Cubby who was raving about your prowess? Or perhaps you have given them BOTH (separately or together?) demonstrations of your abilities?

[trish]

Everyday .. another bigger, better story. Hello, this is my first post. I must admit I am very disappointed that so many have turned the iraqi dinar investment into a scam. I don't think investing in currency is a scam but the people who exploit other people by pumping sales and offering trusts or investment advice are making it the scam of the decade.

Those who are loving this investment scam are the government agencies who are ready at a moments notice to shut down, arrest and confiscate any money made by these fraudsters. Can you even imagine how much money the gov't will make when they close in on these so called investment advisors? Gov't is on every forum, following every lead, every indicator, every red flag that goes up, they are waiting for the time that will be most beneficial to them.

Could it be that the iraqi dinar will indeed revalue with a small increase. That would net the gov't a pretty penny wouldn't you think? I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't sitting back and writing their christmas lists. Once this sting goes down, they will receive their mega bonus for a job well done. All perps will be behind bars and all the illicit funds will go into the government's coffer. Just a thought.

[Nikki]

Trish, would you care to share what you've been smoking?

[ArthurWankspittle]

.... Can you even imagine how much money the gov't will make when they close in on these so called investment advisors?.....

Yes, less than break even: cost of LE investigations, court costs which will never be met, accommodation in Club Fed for various perpetrators v some hundreds of thousands, maybe a few million dollars confiscated as proceeds of crime from various people pretending to be investment advisers.
If anyone thinks that an RV has ever resulted in a currency making multiple gains in the market, let alone the 8000+ fold increase being promised with the IRD, then a responsible adult should have power of attorney over their checking account.
I also have to wonder at what mechanisms are in place that prevents a sovereign state revaluing its currency without the permission of the POTUS.
The next stage in this story will be that the RV has taken place but the banks/illuminati/Royal Family/Pope/POTUS/seckrit tribe of ...../Holy month of Ramadan is preventing the IRD from being exchanged at its "true" rate.

[notorial dissent]

Trish, welcome as a poster, sorry about why you are here.

Unfortunately the whole Iraqi Dinar thing is a scam from start to finish. It is not “some” people who have made it that way, it is the way of the entirety of it. The only ones who are or will make any money off of this are the grifters selling what may well be a pig in a poke to the unsuspecting.

As has been pointed out, repeatedly, there has NEVER EVER been an RV that has done anything like this to ANY currency anywhere anytime in history, and if anyone tells you otherwise, they are lying, and lying through their teeth.

All things aside, sit down and ask yourself these two questions: why is the dinar worth what it is worth at this moment; and, where is the value going to come from to allow them to suddenly increase the value of that currently worthless currency 8000+% as has been promised by the hucksters?

The Iraqi central bank currently has only a few billions in hard currency, barely enough to keep what they have out there now afloat. They have no hidden trove of gold or other thing of value that is suddenly going to miraculously make the dinar worth more than it currently is, so where is this change in value going to come from? Ask yourself these questions and then ask yourself why you wasted your money on something that isn’t even going to make a pretty wall hanging some day?

[Deep Knight]

Trish:

The sad fact is that this scam is mostly off law enforcement's radar. I only know of one arrest - David Olmsted of Lead SD, and that was only because he was getting boxes of Dinars shipped from Jordan, enough people complained loudly about his online representations, his account got flagged by his bank for "suspicious activities," and he was a known tax evader. It is unlikely that any of his victims will see much in reparations. As for the government, justice may be served but at the cost of your tax dollars, not at a profit. Mr. Olmsted may be jailed and fined, but it will recover only a fraction of the costs of investigation and prosecution, with his victims seeing little or nothing. And it's not like his arrest has put the fear of god into the other scammers, they simply doubled down on their boilerplate "we're numismatic traders not investment councilors" disclaimers and are riding the wave of desperate people hoping to get rich quick.

Mr. Dissent (or should I just call you "Notorial?")

Who's to say what is good art and what is not? At a market value of 4.3 cents each, I think these 50 Dinar notes are a GREAT value and the purple palm trees would really brighten up any bare wall space you might have in your home. If that's not your cup of tea, there's always the grain elevator loading ships side.

[notorial dissent]

DK, you may call me ND if you so please.

Agreed, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think I would wait yet a bit until the old bills are finally discarded and pick them up for pennies on the million if you are desiring wall paper. Who knows, they may one day be worth more as collectors items than they ever were as currency, although the rarity factor might do that in, just as the economy did the original currency. Otherwise, I think I will stick to Czarist Rubles, or even some of the Soviet version.

Point of curiosity, I wonder just how many of the "numismatic collectors" have actually collected their dinars from their pushers? Wouldn't it just bite like all get out to have paid for a bunch of worthless currency, and then not even get that to remind you of the mistake you had made?

[co-shoot]

A con--selling art, is a con_artist....a conartist is a conartist is a con...hmmm

[ChuckD]

I have several friends who are true believers in the revaluation, they tell me they have read all the information on sites such as this one but are convinced that they have "inside" information on the "real" scoop. My question for you guys who have a better understanding of the "scam" is, is there any chance that the Dinars become completely worthless at some point, or will they continue to trade somewhere around the current valuation?

[co-shoot]

It won't be long before the dinar will devalue by multiples of thousands

[Gregg]

I have several friends who are true believers in the revaluation, they tell me they have read all the information on sites such as this one but are convinced that they have "inside" information on the "real" scoop. My question for you guys who have a better understanding of the "scam" is, is there any chance that the Dinars become completely worthless at some point, or will they continue to trade somewhere around the current valuation?

They're going to be worthless fairly soon, when the CBI removes 3 zeros and issues a new series. The real punchline is when that has been done in the past (and it's not so uncommon) it is typical that to exchange your old notes for new, sometimes they make you do it in person, limit the amount you can exchange without restrictions and do so within a fairly narrow window (60 days to 6 months). So all the suckers had better be planning to go to Iraq in order to change out their nearly worthless money with a lot of zeros, to nearly worthless money sans zeros.

Below is an unfinished bit I was working on at one time but gave up on, sort of a Mythbusters Iraq thingy..

Because the Iraqi People will benefit from a RV!

Wrong. If the Dinar revalued to a rate to make everyone who knows Okie Oil man rich, that money has to come from somewhere. I mean it does you know. And do you know where it comes from? The Iraqi economy! All the money that you and everyone else would cash out comes from Iraq, depleting their foreign reserves and sovereign assets. That’s right, the effect of a dramatic increase in the value of any currency is for foreign holders to cash in. The bigger the change, the more money leaves as the currency is repatriated. So if you’re worried about the good people of Iraq and doing what’s going to help them the most, you would be wanting the value of Dinar relative to other currencies to remain low. And that fact scales, by the way. When the US dollar is weak that actually stimulates the US export economy, it makes US goods more affordable in other countries which is good for exporters and makes foreign made goods more expensive in the US which is good for American companies selling to the US market.

Because Iraq has so much oil, it should be one of the wealthiest nations on earth!

Wrong. The GDP of Iraq is less than half of the GDP if economic powerhouse Mexico. Iraq does have a lot of oil, but westerners have a warped view of how important oil is relative to the wealth of nations. Oil is a commodity, and a vital one at that. Every large economy depends on solid and reliable energy supplies to power the growth of their economies. Now listen to this part, it’s important. In the same respect, every fast food restaurant needs a steady and reliable supply of salt to insure the growth of their fast food business.
Energy is just one of the components that make industrial economies function, oil is only a part of energy and one that in the next 50 years will almost surely be displaced in the proportion of which it now supplies. The economies of the world that depend largely on commodities sold (which is 92% of Iraq’s) are not wealthy nations, the countries who buy their commodities are. Per Capita GDP of Iraq is just $2090, that’s right, even with all that oil the country produces their entire economic output is less than $2100 per person, which hardly is a good basis to claim they are a wealthy nation, by any stretch of the imagination. The simple fact is, Iraq is a third world country and compared to the G20 nations they’re dirt poor. They survive only because the truly wealthy nations buy a product from them.

Because Iraq can ramp up production in its vast oil fields to raise revenue!



Well, wrong. They can of course raise production. Good cases can be made that if they want they can pump twice the oil out of the ground or more. The problem is, over the last few decades the world has gotten along fine without that oil, we don’t need it and if you ask the other countries selling oil they don’t even want it. Oil, being a commodity, is deeply dependent on supply/demand curves and all the icky stuff you should have learned in Grammar School Econ class. If Iraq were to dump twice as much oil on the market, the price per barrel would drop to less than half it’s current level, they could easily end up getting less cash for twice the oil. Another myth about the Iraqi Dinar mania is that the money will in fact come from the US Government, and that the ultimate source is the US buying oil at a discounted rate to get paid back for invading their country. This fails on several levels, first, the US doesn't use much oil from Iraq, and can't easily start using much more. Oil refineries are set up to run a certain chemistry of crude oil, and in the US especially, changing them to different blends or different crude is not practical. Secondly, the US Government, aside from the strategic reserve, doesn't buy crude oil, energy companies do. And some of the major US suppliers of energy fuel are not US companies, BP is of course British, Shell is Dutch, and the two happen to be the two largest companies buying Iraqi oil. Most oil from Iraq goes to Asia and Europe, not north america. The US imports more oil from Canada than the middle east, more from Mexico than anywhere else save Canada and we still produce quite q bit of oil ourselves, just not as much as we use. Any increase in Iraqi production will more than likely end up being used in India or China.

[notorial dissent]

Gregg, for what it is worth, that is a very clear and concise summation and explanation of what is involved here. I also realize it will be totally wasted on the intentionally delusional, but that is the nature of the malady.

Just out of curiosity, what is the likelihood that rather than 000's they drop 0000's in the deval?

[ArthurWankspittle]

I have several friends who are true believers in the revaluation, they tell me they have read all the information on sites such as this one but are convinced that they have "inside" information on the "real" scoop. My question for you guys who have a better understanding of the "scam" is, is there any chance that the Dinars become completely worthless at some point, or will they continue to trade somewhere around the current valuation?

Yes, once the end date for exchanging them for "new" IRD has passed. My guess would be more like a 12 month window but most people will swap what they have early on. As Greg points out though, there will likely be various obstacles just to making an exchange. Physical presence in Iraq, an upper limit on the amount for a "no questions asked" exchange, possible interview to explain large amounts before exchanging is allowed.
Don't forget, from a government point of view an RV has some great uses. Any opposition / terrorist group sat on a pile of dosh has to use it or lose it, or at least risk exchanging it salami style. When the Euro came into use in Europe, there was a massive increase in car sales, house extensions and swimming pools being built.

[ChuckD]

Thanks for the replies guys.

[trish]

Trish, welcome as a poster, sorry about why you are here.

Unfortunately the whole Iraqi Dinar thing is a scam from start to finish. It is not “some” people who have made it that way, it is the way of the entirety of it. The only ones who are or will make any money off of this are the grifters selling what may well be a pig in a poke to the unsuspecting.

As has been pointed out, repeatedly, there has NEVER EVER been an RV that has done anything like this to ANY currency anywhere anytime in history, and if anyone tells you otherwise, they are lying, and lying through their teeth.

All things aside, sit down and ask yourself these two questions: why is the dinar worth what it is worth at this moment; and, where is the value going to come from to allow them to suddenly increase the value of that currently worthless currency 8000+% as has been promised by the hucksters?

The Iraqi central bank currently has only a few billions in hard currency, barely enough to keep what they have out there now afloat. They have no hidden trove of gold or other thing of value that is suddenly going to miraculously make the dinar worth more than it currently is, so where is this change in value going to come from? Ask yourself these questions and then ask yourself why you wasted your money on something that isn’t even going to make a pretty wall hanging some day?

Not sure what you mean - you're sorry why I am here. All I did was post a comment about what I've observed over the past few years. The debate about buying Iraqi Dinar. Is it a Scam? No. My point was that buying currency, any currency (except maybe Iran) is Not a scam. It is those who are taking advantage of people by selling them trust funds and pushing tax evasion schemes that are making it appear to be a scam. I never said I was invested. I do, however, say good luck to those who have decided to take a chance investing pennies. Hopefully, those pennies will turn into something much more. The country I live in is in dire need of "creative ways" to raise funds, maybe taxing the rich after they become rich might work. just a thought. No need to bash.

[trish]

Trish:

The sad fact is that this scam is mostly off law enforcement's radar. I only know of one arrest - David Olmsted of Lead SD, and that was only because he was getting boxes of Dinars shipped from Jordan, enough people complained loudly about his online representations, his account got flagged by his bank for "suspicious activities," and he was a known tax evader. It is unlikely that any of his victims will see much in reparations. As for the government, justice may be served but at the cost of your tax dollars, not at a profit. Mr. Olmsted may be jailed and fined, but it will recover only a fraction of the costs of investigation and prosecution, with his victims seeing little or nothing. And it's not like his arrest has put the fear of god into the other scammers, they simply doubled down on their boilerplate "we're numismatic traders not investment councilors" disclaimers and are riding the wave of desperate people hoping to get rich quick.

Mr. Dissent (or should I just call you "Notorial?")

Who's to say what is good art and what is not? At a market value of 4.3 cents each, I think these 50 Dinar notes are a GREAT value and the purple palm trees would really brighten up any bare wall space you might have in your home. If that's not your cup of tea, there's always the grain elevator loading ships side.

Watch, wait and see. Why not wait until after the fact? Don't be so sure about law enforcement. Try giving them a little credit.

[notorial dissent]

Trish, my comment was to welcome you as a poster, and that I was sorry that you were here if it was because you had gotten involved in the Dinar scam. Sorry if you misinterpreted. My comment still holds.

The point is that the WHOLE dinar thing is a scam from beginning to end. Investing in currency unless you are doing it on a large scale is an expensive and pointless exercise. There is not enough fluctuation in currency currently to get you anywhere unless you are doing it on a large scale and willing to make a few cents on each trade.

It is those who are taking advantage of people by selling them trust funds and pushing tax evasion schemes that are making it appear to be a scam.

There is nothing “appears” about it, it is a scam.

The “pennies” these unfortunates are investing are going to eventually turn in to quarter pennies, if they are lucky, and more than likely will turn in to no pennies at all by the time this is done.

This goes far beyond "creative ways" to raise funds” and is in the realm of fantasy, for all the reasons that Gregg and others have posted. There is nothing about this that is an investment, except possibly to the scammer's retirement fund.

Unfortunately, most of these penny ante grifters will probably get off scott free on this since unless someone actually files a fraud complaint there isn’t likely much that will happen. One only has to look at what has happened, or more to the point not happened, with the big ponzi schemes that have been going on sometimes for years before they have been shut down to see that.

[Gregg]

It's not a scam in that it is of course legal currency, somewhere. But the companies pushing it are bending the law to the breaking point. First, some make a big deal about being "Licensed by the US Treasury" which sounds impressive but they're not licensed to sell investments or investment advice. They have money service business licenses, which are not at all hard to get, you have to prove your identity, provide a US address (which can be a registered agent like a corporation has to have) and not be a felon. The purpose of this type of business is for places like check cashing stores or places that exchange currency for people who are traveling overseas or more commonly for the non bank ones, sending money home. Which brings us to another not quite a scam, but damn near lying to you part of the Dinar culture, it is in fact illegal in most cases for US nationals to buy Dinars. What you say? But how come mainline banks were selling them? Well, in the law, there was an exception that provided for people traveling to to Iraq to obtain Dinar here, cause buying currency on the road is kind of an iffy thing in the third world. Most banks offer to do this for customers for any currency, so when people started asking, they called traders and got it for them. Of course, most of them didn't know the people were asking for investments, tellers may have known but trust me, upper management didn't. As an illustration, one of the main banks that the Dinar boards talked about was 5/3, a bank based in Cincinnati and one whose senior legal guy is someone I just happen to know personally. A few months ago I happened to have a conversation with him about Dinars and asked why in the world they were doing what they were doing. And it wasn't a coincidence, I called and yes, me running into a friend at a party is why 5/3 stopped selling Dinar. The next week 5/3 stopped selling dinar, an article about the liability involved was published in a banking blog popular with that crowd and within a week more, several other banks quit doing it, too.
So, why don't banks want to do it, when they realize people are not going to Iraq but are investing? See, banks are not just little money service businesses, they're heavily regulated and most of them have even more heavily regulated investment businesses, too. By making a product available, they have to provide the DD and disclosure they do with any investments, also, tellers and branch managers are not allowed to sell investments outside normal banking products, to sell Dinar as an investment, legally they would need to have that transaction handled by someone with a Series 7 license (ask your Dinar dealer if they have one of those), and of course, the legal department of any bank would know that selling Dinar as in investment is illegal right now, so they gave it up.
What all that illustrates is just one thing your dealer is dressing up for you (well, lets face it, they're lying to both you and the government if they say they're not selling it as an investment) and do you really want to invest with someone who is twisting the truth with you up front?

Next, Iraq doesn't have the money to revalue their currency to the levels these people are dreaming about. There are currently 30 trillion dinar notes in circulation, the M3 figure (which isn't a figure anymore but I digress) would be around 64 trillion dinar. Where you to RV the currency, you'd need the dollars or access to them to cover every dinar in M3, cause when people start turning them in, well, they'll want dollars (okay, or pounds or Euros etc...) so even 1 dinar to a dollar can't happen because not only does Iraq have that kind of money, that amount of money doesn't exist. One of the more insane among them has quoted a rate of 1 dinar= $11.04 in the last twenty four hours. That is more money than the US economy has produced since the Civil War. Do you really think that Iraq has more oil in the ground than the industrial revolution, two world wars, robber barons, the fifties (when most of the economies of the world were pumping up and buying from the only major one not devastated by WWII) and the information economy? Get real. Comparing the economies of Iraq and the US is like comparing a buy here pay here lot in East St Louis to General Motors.

My take on it (and I'm not a guru, my qualifications are limited to a PhD in Economics and my first job in finance was with the Federal Reserve bank of Cleveland, hardly the kind of guy you'd want to listen to if you think you're gonna be rich any day now) is in the near future, Iraq will drop three zeros, as they have announced they will do. That will reduce M3 (*when they remove the zeros, an "old" 25,000 dinar note will equal the "new" 25 dinar note) and a dinar will be officially $1.17. They'll keep it there for a bit, maybe as much as 5 years, but the reason they do that, both now and in the future, is that if allowed to trade at fair value it would drop dramatically from that level. Important, 1168 (present rate) is ARTIFICIALLY SUPPORTED and when they do let it float, it will drop a bit from that. If they do it in the next five years I would bet it falls to about 1150, if I were investing I'd be a buyer at 1250. YMMV.

Another big myth I see often is that the US Treasury and/or the Federal Reserve holds trillions of dinar. That's essentially wrong. The Fed holds enough to accommodate the Dinar that are paid to US nationals (mostly contractors) or that US Nationals may need to operate in Iraq. That amount may be trillions of dinar, but only because Dinar are darn near worthless. You want to know how much the Federal reserve holds, check out the CBI Auctions. The amount the Fed holds at any given time will be pretty close to the amount sold at a given auction multiplied by the proportion of US operations that use Dinar day to day among all foreign entities that use Dinar day to day, which is about 75%. Which is to say that the buyer at teh auctions is pretty much the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, buying not as an investment but to supply the needs of US banks that deal with the companies in Iraq. And even that's a myth of sorts as most US companies doing business over there deal in dollars anyway. Basically the Fed is buying enough to provide currency to Us contractors to have pocket money for beer and strip clubs (well and more pedestrian stuff).

Iraq is a dirt poor country. Iraq has a one product economy. Iraq's banking infrastructure is late 19th century plus ATMs (and there are fewer ATMs outside the green zone that there are at a big exit ramp on any US interstate) Iraq's government is not very stable with tens of thousands of US troops in country and isn't going to get more stable when they leave. These are not things that should make you want to invest in their currency.

[Gregg]

Bear with me, I'm gonna revisit a lot of old posts from the other thread...

There are a pair of names I want remembered in the Dinar RV context, two guys really going out of their way to sell this "deal." Bradford Huebner of Toledo Ohio and Rudolph Coenen of Jacksonville Florida. I've just started doing a little digging and both these are starting to look like a very questionable investment of our collective oxygen supply.

Bradford Huebner runs the BH Group website selling not only the Iraqi Dinar but such MLM favorites like Xango, iZigg and Talk Fusion. From his website you can purchase 100,000 Dinar for only $170, or a bit better than 588 Dinar to the Dollar, but that does include shipping. I could have sworn the fair price was closer to 1,200 Dinar to the dollar but I'm not spending my days on podcasts telling people how much the Dinar will appreciate.

Rudolph Coenen has a string of companies which Sunbiz.org describe as "ADMIN DISSOLUTION FOR ANNUAL REPORT" but one active one, BAYSHORE CAPITAL INVESTMENTS LLC. Brad's BH group website tells us a bit more about Rudolf"s financial offerings, he's running a hedge Fund:

Investment Requirements and Eligibility

Any potential investor with Bayshore Capital Investments, LLC and the Iraqi Hedge Fund, LP I and II must be a Registered Member of The BH Group: http://www.thebhgroup.org (Free Sign-up). The BH Group is the exclusive marketing agent and will solely determine the eligibility of every participant in the initial two Hedge Funds, which have a total of 1000 seats.

All communication for these seats will be through the following E-mail: hedgefund@thebhgroup.orgThis e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it and not Rudy Coenen, CEO of Bayshore Capital Investments. Rudy will be communicating with individual investors once their eligibility to partcipate in the fund has been determined.

Due to the overwhelming response for this initial offering, the only fair way to allocate Seat Positions for the Iraqi Hedge Fund, LP I and II is to base it on the total amount of Iraqi Dinars purchased DIRECTLY from The BH Group up until this subscription is closed.

All BH Group members will receive a questionnaire asking you to confirm the total amount of Dinars you’ve purchased from The BH Group and if you’re interested in participating in the Iraqi Hedge Fund I or II. Please complete and return the following document immediately to determine eligibility.

Most people will NOT be able to meet the Qualifications required by the Security and Exchange Commission until AFTER the Revaluation of the Iraqi Dinar. To accommodate those individuals, the inception date of the Hedge Fund will not start until 21 days after the Revaluation.



I know hedge funds aren't regulated the way mutual funds are, but can I just go out and set one up myself? I mean if I get a few hundred drooling morons on a Blog Talk Radio show and tell them I'm a hedge fund manager, can I solicit investors? Is there any required licensing or registration?

I really don't want to listen to another one of their podcasts, I heard one last night and used it as an insomnia cure but as I was drifting off I could have sworn I heard Rudolf telling people about a $750 membership fee, which I guess is why I started doing a little digging today.

there is some, not much, and I'm pretty sure this guy didn't get it. His bigger problem just on that post is it's illegal for hedge funds to advertise or solicit investors in any way. Another it hedge fund investors have to be "Qualified Investors" or "Sophisticated Investors" which is a strict set of criteria about net worth, income etc.... Is this bozo in Ohio? I got peeps in Ohio I can that investigation going before the next RV rumor.

[Gregg]

Re: Dinarpaloosa

Postby GlimDropper » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:24 pm
Rudolph "Rudy" Coenen is the guy pretending to run the hedge fund and he's in the sunshine state. Bradford Huebner is in Ohio and seem to be acting as a feeder to the fund. I was aware of the "sophisticated investor" stipulations and I'd love to see Rudy claim his Dinar scam victims were in any way "sophisticated."

As far as how much advertising the guy's doing, feed Rudy Coenen and Dinar Daddy into Google, and add hedge fund to pair down the 50,000+ results. Kinda hard to claim it was a private offering when you have YouTube links.



Postby Gregg » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:39 pm
Well hell. That one is easy, he's gonna get a visit from someone from the Ohio Department of Commerce and get a chance to explain how a private offering is done with a webpage.
\


Re: Dinarpaloosa

Postby Gregg » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:59 pm
I just made a quick call on the batphone, we got people on it.[/quote]




Postby GlimDropper » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:10 pm
Thank you Gregg.
Is there any information, links, quotes, anything that might be helpful in expediting the authorities in their investigation? I have a free hour or two I could devote to a good cause.