Winning? - and not like Charlie Sheen

Famspear
Knight Templar of the Sacred Tax
Posts: 7668
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 12:59 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Winning? - and not like Charlie Sheen

Post by Famspear »

wings wrote:.........I did read that even though the money is not owed, or is being collected illegally, paying voluntarily means one cannot sue for its return unless notice is given that payment is due to coercion, duress, etc., and that the collection of said taxes is illegal....
The poor doofus can't even get that part right. This may relate to what he's thinking:

Protest [e.g., in connection with payment to a taxing authority]:
The formal statement, usually in writing, made by a person who is called upon by public authority to pay a sum of money, in which he declares that he does not concede the legality or justice of the claim or his duty to pay it, or that he disputes the amount demanded; the object being to save his right to recover or reclaim the amount, which right would be lost by his acquiescence. Thus, taxes may be paid under "protest".
--Black’s Law Dictionary, p. 1101 (5th Ed. 1979).

In the case of U.S. Federal taxes, however, the taxpayer's failure to protest does not deprive the taxpayer of the right to file an administrative claim with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) for a refund and, if the claim is not allowed by the IRS, to sue for a tax refund in Federal district court. See generally 28 USC section 1346(a)(1); Internal Revenue Code section 6532(a); and, in particular, Internal Revenue Code section 7422(b):
Such suit or proceeding may be maintained whether or not such tax, penalty, or sum has been paid under protest or duress.
In other words, in the case of Federal taxes, a person paying a sum he or she believes is erroneous, etc., is NOT required to give the notice described by "wings" to preserve his or her rights.

---(adapted from something I wrote in "another place")....
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
Cathulhu
Order of the Quatloos, Brevet First Class
Posts: 1258
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Winning? - and not like Charlie Sheen

Post by Cathulhu »

Yeah, but you'd probably not be surprised how many checks IRS processes that say "paid under protest" on the "for" line of the check. IRS truly doesn't care, as long as the check doesn't bounce.
Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to. T. Pratchett
Always be a moving target. L.M. Bujold
Famspear
Knight Templar of the Sacred Tax
Posts: 7668
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 12:59 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Winning? - and not like Charlie Sheen

Post by Famspear »

Cathulhu wrote:Yeah, but you'd probably not be surprised how many checks IRS processes that say "paid under protest" on the "for" line of the check. IRS truly doesn't care, as long as the check doesn't bounce.
Yes, and I suspect many people just write that on the check to express their frustration.

The old common law requirement that the payor file a formal "protest" to preserve his or her right to later sue for refund was abolished by Congress, in the case of federal taxes, in section 1014 of the Revenue Act of 1924. Section 7422(b) of the current Internal Revenue Code is the modern-day statute.
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
JamesVincent
A Councilor of the Kabosh
Posts: 3076
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:01 am
Location: Wherever my truck goes.

Re: Winning? - and not like Charlie Sheen

Post by JamesVincent »

I know when dealing with the IRS over some of the things my ex did is that their basic, generic answer to any issues with amount owed is that you pay the amount they say you owe and theyll refund it when you prove it wrong, which, to me at least, is wrong. Speaking of which, any tax lawyers want to send me a message? Im at about wits end with dealing with this crap.
Disciple of the cross and champion in suffering
Immerse yourself into the kingdom of redemption
Pardon your mind through the chains of the divine
Make way, the shepherd of fire

Avenged Sevenfold "Shepherd of Fire"
Arthur Rubin
Tupa-O-Quatloosia
Posts: 1756
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 11:02 pm
Location: Brea, CA

Re: Winning? - and not like Charlie Sheen

Post by Arthur Rubin »

JamesVincent wrote:I know when dealing with the IRS over some of the things my ex did is that their basic, generic answer to any issues with amount owed is that you pay the amount they say you owe and theyll refund it when you prove it wrong, which, to me at least, is wrong. Speaking of which, any tax lawyers want to send me a message? Im at about wits end with dealing with this crap.
If your ex did them, and it relates to a joint return, then yes, for the most part. There are exceptions, and if you file a timely response to the 90-day letter, then you can go to Tax Court to dispute the amount due. Otherwise, the law is clear that you may not sue before paying.

However, I am not a lawyer, and I will leave further comments to lawyers who are informed of your specific situation, which you probably don't want to report on an open board.
Arthur Rubin, unemployed tax preparer and aerospace engineer
ImageJoin the Blue Ribbon Online Free Speech Campaign!

Butterflies are free. T-shirts are $19.95 $24.95 $29.95
Famspear
Knight Templar of the Sacred Tax
Posts: 7668
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 12:59 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Winning? - and not like Charlie Sheen

Post by Famspear »

Now, Patrick Michael Mooney is back at losthorizons, and he responds to the comments by "wings" (see above):
Dear Wings,

The threat to seize property and the actual seizing of property are two very different things. In all the supposed "judgments" the IRS has against me, they have only managed to steal what was handed over to them by my previous place of work, a scant $300 out of my bank account, and monies deducted from lawful refunds gained by filing the CTC way!

If you pay them, you do so as your own admission of weakness in your fight for freedom. From what you have stated, you have acted correctly, it seems. The rest is to continue to fight....Ignore them...they have acted in bad faith....why are you acting in good faith to a rogue government full of criminals?

How is that going to solve your problem or anyone else's?

If you are acting unlawfully, as they allege you are, let them come and arrest you. You sound knowledgable enough to be able to defend yourself in front of a jury. They know they can't keep winnning [sic] repated [sic] convictions like the rigged for Peter. The game is too wide open and exposed for the mess it is.

I pray that you hold your ground...there's been too much talk of surrender
in some of these posts and on the state forums. Turns my stomach.

The game is ours to be won, now! Can anyone else see this as true (and not just a pipe dream?).....
(bolding added).

http://www.losthorizons.com/phpBB/viewt ... e507#28145

:roll:

EDIT: Brave, brave Sir Patrick......
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
User avatar
grixit
Recycler of Paytriot Fantasies
Posts: 4287
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 6:02 am

Re: Winning? - and not like Charlie Sheen

Post by grixit »

I am so sure of my convictions, i'd gladly risk your life for them.
Three cheers for the Lesser Evil!

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . 4
Famspear
Knight Templar of the Sacred Tax
Posts: 7668
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 12:59 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Winning? - and not like Charlie Sheen

Post by Famspear »

CaptainKickback wrote:
grixit wrote:I am so sure of my convictions, i'd gladly risk your life for them.

We know Pete Hendrickson is absolutely sure of his convictions.......so to speak. :wink:
Ah, where's that drum roll?????.......

:)
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
Kestrel
Endangerer of Stupid Species
Posts: 877
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:09 pm
Location: Hovering overhead, scanning for prey

Re: Winning? - and not like Charlie Sheen

Post by Kestrel »

Dear Wings,

They know they can't keep winnning [sic] repated [sic] convictions like the [sic] rigged for Peter. The game is too wide open and exposed for the mess it is.

I pray that you hold your ground...there's been too much talk of surrender
in some of these posts and on the state forums. Turns my stomach.

The game is ours to be won, now! Can anyone else see this as true (and not just a pipe dream?).....
So said Tsar Nicholas II when he sent thousands of Russian footsoldiers to stand up against German tanks. And we know what ultimately happened to him.
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." - Robert Heinlein
Cathulhu
Order of the Quatloos, Brevet First Class
Posts: 1258
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Winning? - and not like Charlie Sheen

Post by Cathulhu »

I think the esteemed Mr. Mooney is trying to advertise himself up to the point so that when he gets convicted, he'll loudly and publicly state that it's because he's so Very Important that the Ebil Gummint has "rigged" another conviction. Couldn't possibly be due to him being wrong.

Pity the penalty for being an attention whore isn't a bitch-slapping. Alas. :roll:
Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to. T. Pratchett
Always be a moving target. L.M. Bujold
User avatar
grixit
Recycler of Paytriot Fantasies
Posts: 4287
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 6:02 am

Re: Winning? - and not like Charlie Sheen

Post by grixit »

Kestrel wrote:
Dear Wings,

They know they can't keep winnning [sic] repated [sic] convictions like the [sic] rigged for Peter. The game is too wide open and exposed for the mess it is.

I pray that you hold your ground...there's been too much talk of surrender
in some of these posts and on the state forums. Turns my stomach.

The game is ours to be won, now! Can anyone else see this as true (and not just a pipe dream?).....
So said Tsar Nicholas II when he sent thousands of Russian footsoldiers to stand up against German tanks. And we know what ultimately happened to him.
This Kremlin has too many Rasputins and not enough Lenins.
Three cheers for the Lesser Evil!

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . 4
Omne
Pirates Mate
Pirates Mate
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:23 am

Re: Winning? - and not like Charlie Sheen

Post by Omne »

Cathulhu wrote:Yeah, but you'd probably not be surprised how many checks IRS processes that say "paid under protest" on the "for" line of the check. IRS truly doesn't care, as long as the check doesn't bounce.
You'd be surprised how many checks they process that aren't made out to the IRS. They over stamp them and deposit them. We used to get check copies all the time from taxpayers that sent the State tax check to the IRS by mistake. I always got the feeling they'd deposit anything, third party checks, fourth party checks, small animals, children, etc....
ArthurWankspittle
Slavering Minister of Auto-erotic Insinuation
Posts: 3756
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:35 am
Location: Quatloos Immigration Control

Re: Winning? - and not like Charlie Sheen

Post by ArthurWankspittle »

Kestrel wrote:So said Tsar Nicholas II when he sent thousands of Russian footsoldiers to stand up against German tanks. And we know what ultimately happened to him.
Not too sure about your history there Kestrel, but I can give you an appropriate political quote that suits the situation: "Greater love has no man than to lay down his friends for his life."
"There is something about true madness that goes beyond mere eccentricity." Will Self
Paul

Re: Winning? - and not like Charlie Sheen

Post by Paul »

"Greater love has no man than to lay down his friends for his life."
Moammar? Is that you?