Ed, Elaine, and The Southern Poverty Law Center

[ElfNinosMom]

Antigovernment Extremism
Law Officials Pursue Differing Standoff Policies




Two recent potential standoff situations — one in Wisconsin and one in New Hampshire — illustrate radically different law enforcement approaches to dealing with such confrontations with members of the radical right.

In Wisconsin, authorities were faced with a couple who refused to leave the house they lost to foreclosure after failing to pay taxes, and who had filed illegal court liens against some 25 people. Lester Sundsmo, 64, and his wife Lilac, 56, falsely claimed that their home some 30 miles northeast of Madison was actually a church, and they filed the liens — which, even when unjustified, can make it extremely difficult for victims to sell their own house or land — against county and bank officials involved in legal proceedings against them. The authorities made their move in March, when more than 100 federal and local law enforcement officers, backed by a bomb squad, helicopters, ambulances and fire trucks, arrested the Sundsmos as they drove away from their rural log cabin in Columbia County. They were arrested without incident.

The firepower used brought some criticism of law enforcement. But officials pointed out that the Sundsmos had a long history of involvement with members of the radical antigovernment right, some of whom could have been at their house at the time of the raid; had had several prior minor conflicts with police; and kept a 70-foot tunnel that could have been used to store weapons. (None were found.)

Prosecutors later told a judge that after the March 14 arrest, Lilac Sundsmo told an officer that "we're going to kill" anyone who takes over their foreclosed house. Both Sundsmos were ordered held in lieu of $10,000 bond. In New Hampshire two months earlier, a former militia leader prone to making violent threats and his wife were convicted of an array of felonies for refusing to pay taxes for 12 years. Ed Brown was convicted of three felony tax crimes, while his wife Elaine — who earned most of the family income as a dentist in Lebanon — was convicted of 17 felony counts. The couple, who were to be sentenced in the late spring, face up to five years on each count.

Just a few days after the federal trial began, Ed Brown left the courtroom and holed up at his home near Plainfield — a home equipped with 10-inch cement walls, a huge watchtower, a plethora of guns and a whole array of radical sympathizers. His wife initially declined to join him, continuing to attend the trial, but then broke an agreement with the judge and joined her husband at the home.

Brown, who has a long history of involvement with radical groups, issued a series of threats from his home, warning of violence if the authorities moved against him. He also claimed "thousands" of sympathizers would help him.

U.S. Marshal Stephen Monier repeatedly told reporters that he was in no hurry to bring the Browns in. He said he spoke to Ed Brown daily, but had "low-key" and "amicable" conversations, and predicted no standoff.

The Browns were still in their homemade fortress at press time.
In the 1990s, in the aftermath of deadly standoffs in Waco and elsewhere, many law enforcement agencies began to pursue noticeably more patient policies in such situations. Numerous experts have suggested that using more lenient tactics costs law enforcement little and often saves lives. But others have argued that waiting can actually worsen the situation and raise the stakes.

Spewing violent threats, tax protester and former militia leader Ed Brown has holed up in his New Hampshire home in a standoff with federal authorities. Brown and his wife were convicted of a total of 20 felonies for refusing to pay taxes since 1996.


Intelligence Report
Summer 2007

[grixit]

You're forgetting, New England is where the US keeps most of its quaint.

[Dezcad]

So what the article is saying is that New England states and New Hampshire specifically, is run and populated in large part by candy-a**ed, limp-d*cked, whiny gutless little wimps.

And by New England, I mean Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Connecticut, Rhode Island and Massachussetts - all of whome when combined together have an importance equal to....oh I don't know.......Kansas? Iowa? Oklahoma?

FEH! Screw New England.

I don't see any reference to any state other than NH or even a mention of New England.

Comparing Massachusetts, specifically the Boston/Cambridge area, to Kansas, Iowa and Oklahoma is completely without foundation. Say what you want about NH, VT and ME, but please, get a clue.

You Left Coasters are way too arrogant and for people with attitudes like yours, it will not be too soon for it to wash into the Pacific.

[Imalawman]

Let me put it to you in an easy to grasp form. The last, and I do mean very last (forever even) New England politician to ascend to the presidency was/is John F. Kennedy. The ship has sailed, the plane has taken off, the train has left the station.

Or to put New England's political and economic clout in perspective - "The refrigerator door is closed, the lights are off, the jello is jiggling, the butter's getting hard and the eggs are getting cold." - Chick Hearn

I think you're leaving out a big piece here Cap'n. Education - the majority of influential people in the country were educated in New England. I'm no lover of the liberal northern territories, but they have great influence still because of education. However, this to is beginning to diminish. But right now, I think NE still has influence because they teach the presidents and SC judges, senators etc. etc.

[Dezcad]

I didn't realize that by your use of the words "important" or "value" that it was strictly limited to population size or political clout.

There's much more to life than just that. Try the arts, education, culture. Tell me which colleges and museums one would find in the midwest states you mention.

And please, don't be so condescending with statements like - "Let me put it to you in an easy to grasp form." It's not becoming and it is no way deserving as a reply to my post.

[Cpt Banjo]

Hey, we've never had a senator leave a young woman, who WAS NOT his wife, trapped in a car to drown, after that senator drove the car off a bridge into a creek in a drunken stupor and the fled the accident scene to immediately call his attorney and fabricate an alibi.

Wasn't Gary Condit a California Congressman?

[Demosthenes]

Chondra was probably killed by a serial killer

One of those rare serial killers who only has one victim...

[Cpt Banjo]

Finally, a Harvard or Yale education does not have the same prestige and luster as it did in the past. Slowly they are having to share ground with other institutes like Stanford, or USC, or Northwestern, or Emory, or Baylor.

Baylor? Baylor???? Pu-leeze, that's where the students don't make love standing up because people might think they're dancing.

[Demosthenes]

Finally, a Harvard or Yale education does not have the same prestige and luster as it did in the past. Slowly they are having to share ground with other institutes like Stanford, or USC, or Northwestern, or Emory, or Baylor.

And what about Berkeley???

[wserra]

NYC has MOMA and the Guggenheim.

And the Met. And Natural History. And the Whitney. And the Jewish. And the Intrepid. And the Studio. And the South Street Seaport. And the Sony Wonder. And the Folk Art. And the Moving Image. And the Botanical Gardens, Bronx and Brooklyn. And the Bronx Zoo. And the Morgan Library. And the Barrio. And the City of New York. And Cooper-Hewitt. And the Childrens' Museum of Manhattan ("C-MOM"). And the American Indian. And the Historical Society. And Ellis Island. And the Frick. And Goethe House. And Seaman's Church. And Schomberg Center.

And a hundred others, in addition to two which you may never have heard of, and which are worth a trip to NYC all by themselves - Wave Hill and the Cloisters.

But, I'll grant you, you CA types do have celebrities' footprints in cement.

[Dr. Caligari]

And the Met. And Natural History. And the Whitney. And the Jewish. And the Intrepid. And the Studio. And the South Street Seaport. And the Sony Wonder. And the Folk Art. And the Moving Image. And the Botanical Gardens, Bronx and Brooklyn. And the Bronx Zoo. And the Morgan Library. And the Barrio. And the City of New York. And Cooper-Hewitt. And the Childrens' Museum of Manhattan ("C-MOM"). And the American Indian. And the Historical Society. And Ellis Island. And the Frick. And Goethe House. And Seaman's Church. And Schomberg Center.

And a hundred others, in addition to two which you may never have heard of, and which are worth a trip to NYC all by themselves - Wave Hill and the Cloisters.

But, I'll grant you, you CA types do have celebrities' footprints in cement.

Wes, as a life-long New Yorker recently transplanted to Cal, I tend to agree with you, but the LaBrea Tar Pits are way, way cool.

[Judge Roy Bean]

And the Met. And Natural History. And the Whitney. And the Jewish. And the Intrepid. And the Studio. And the South Street Seaport. And the Sony Wonder. And the Folk Art. And the Moving Image. And the Botanical Gardens, Bronx and Brooklyn. And the Bronx Zoo. And the Morgan Library. And the Barrio. And the City of New York. And Cooper-Hewitt. And the Childrens' Museum of Manhattan ("C-MOM"). And the American Indian. And the Historical Society. And Ellis Island. And the Frick. And Goethe House. And Seaman's Church. And Schomberg Center.

And a hundred others, in addition to two which you may never have heard of, and which are worth a trip to NYC all by themselves - Wave Hill and the Cloisters.

But, I'll grant you, you CA types do have celebrities' footprints in cement.

Don't forget NYC also has Donald Trump!

[ElfNinosMom]

Chondra was probably killed by a serial killer

One of those rare serial killers who only has one victim...

Dammit, Demo, where was the keyboard warning on that one?

[Evil Squirrel Overlord]

Boston has the MOBA!

http://www.museumofbadart.org/

__________

And our state fair kicks butt!
http://www.mnstatefair.org/

But all in all the demographics are shifting south west

[Demosthenes]

Maryland has crabcakes. Hmmmm. Crabcakes.

[Dezcad]

And by New England, I mean Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Connecticut, Rhode Island and Massachussetts - all of whome when combined together have an importance equal to....oh I don't know.......Kansas? Iowa? Oklahoma?

FEH! Screw New England.

I'm still awaiting your mention of the fine colleges, museums and Fortune 500 companies located in Kansas?Iowa? and Oklahoma.

I'll restate my two previous points:

Comparing Massachusetts, specifically the Boston/Cambridge area, to Kansas, Iowa and Oklahoma is completely without foundation.

Tell me which colleges and museums one would find in the midwest states you mention.

I'm pretty sure that Kansas, Iowa and Oklahoma are neither in the "South" or "West' which you go on and on about.

[Imalawman]

Fine colleges in the midwest:

U. Ok.
U. of Iowa
Iowa State
Drake U.
U. of Minn.
Kansas St.
U. of Kansas
U. of Chi.
Wash. U
U. of Nebraska

Now, you may argue they're not as prestigious as Harvard or Yale, but then again, not everyone wants to go there either. I certainly am glad I went to school on both east coast and in the midwest. This post has really taken a turn for in-fighting amongst the Quatloos brethren.

[Cobalt Shiva]

Maryland has crabcakes. Hmmmm. Crabcakes.

Ick.

About 15 years ago or so, while I was working my way through college, I was listening to late-night talk radio, and a dietician was on. The dietician mentioned that the nearest land counterpart to crab, lobster, and other shellfish is . . . the cockroach.

Well, THAT grossed me out right and proper. I ditched shellfish from my diet, and I noticed almost immediately a sharp improvement in my health (fewer colds, stomach flu, etc).

[webhick]

This post has really taken a turn for in-fighting amongst the Quatloos brethren.

Too much in-fighting in general going on lately.

[Dezcad]

I am relying on those who live in KS, MO, NE, SD, ND, MN to provide that information. Northwestern University comes to mind. But I will let the mid-westerners speak for themselves.

Northwestern University is in Chicago, IL not KS, IA, OK , MO, NE, SD, ND, or MN.

Since you compared New England, including MA, to KS, IA and OK, I was just curious what you used as a basis of comparison. It is now readily apparent.