England and Wales

[Prof]

Suggestions, please, for a trip to England in late September. Mrs. Prof and I are thinking of visiting Bath, Wells, Stonehenge, etc., but will have about 8 days. We intend to fly into Heathrow, spend a night or two in London, and take a train South to Bath or Salisbury.

Should we rely on trains and buses or rent a car in -- say -- Bath, and treat it as a headquarters?

Your comments before our trip to Italy very helpful. Thanks in advance.

[Pottapaug1938]

Suggestions, please, for a trip to England in late September. Mrs. Prof and I are thinking of visiting Bath, Wells, Stonehenge, etc., but will have about 8 days. We intend to fly into Heathrow, spend a night or two in London, and take a train South to Bath or Salisbury.

Should we rely on trains and buses or rent a car in -- say -- Bath, and treat it as a headquarters?

Your comments before our trip to Italy very helpful. Thanks in advance.

In August of 1977, Mrs. Pottapaug and I enjoyed a honeymoon over there. We spent a week in London, then took the train to York, Edinburgh, Chester, Stratford-on-Avon, Bath, Salisbury (near Stonehenge), Canterbury and then London again. We used Britrail to get around, and it was great -- leave your luggage before your train leaves, do some shopping, then catch the train and continue on. If we were to do it again, we would skip Stratford (a tourist trap), and visit places like Bury (an ancestral town near Manchester). At most, we would rent a car only for short excursions.

[Burnaby49]

I go to Britain about every other year for 3-6 week trips. If we can ignore Pottapaug's abysmal taste in music (a big if) I would suggest his recommended itinerary is about as good as it gets for a first time trip although somewhat too hectic for eight days. I've been everywhere on his list except Stratford (as he says, tourist trap) and all good. I'd skip York and Edinburgh for another trip and stay in the south given your restricted time frame. London requires more than a night or two, the last time I was there I stayed for a week and not enough. To be fair my goal is a beer in every pub in London so I'd have to live there for enough time to suit me.

A very popular way to see Bath and Stonehenge is a day-long bus tour from London. I was sitting in a very ancient coaching pub/Inn, the George Inn in Norton St. Philips, when a Stonehenge/Bath busload arrived for a pre-arranged lunch. Seemed very well organized and, if the George is typical, they pick great stopover venues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_George ... _St_Philip

Chester and Cantebury are a beautiful little towns, all walkable. You can walk around Chester on the ancient city wall which still exists. If you want to PM me I can recommend places to stay in some of the towns that place you right in walking range of everything.

[The Observer]

I would suggest seeing Windsor Castle, there is a train that leaves London and stops near the castle. This is a nice day trip.

The various British museums are another wonderful item, but since you only have two days in London, it is probaly not something you have time for.

Stonehenge, from what I understand, is underwhelming due to the fact that the site has been fenced off but you can see the ring from a short distance away as you walk around it. Apparently, there are ways to access the ring but you have to apply for such.

And isn't Bath/Salisbury nearly west of London rather than south?

[Prof]

I should have explained that we have been to London (a week about 15 years ago) and also took the train to Edinburgh, returning through York. This is only our second trip, and we wanted to see Bath, Wells, etc., and the Cotswalds. We'll only spend a night or so in London for the flavor and may go out to Windsor Castle -- which we haven't seen.

(PS -- Mrs. Prof is trying to convince me to go; I want to go to see our son in CA and her brother in Denver -- the Denver leg gives me the opportunity to go up to Nebraska, where I understand there is a significan grouse infestation.)

Thanks again.

[Demosthenes]

If you haven't picked your London hotel yet, be sure to check the prices at Club Quarters. It's a banker's-type club for execs who travel for business but they rent very nice rooms in great locations for cheap to non-members. I've stayed at Club Quarters in London and San Francisco and last time I looked they had four clubs in London.

http://www.clubquarters.com/

[wserra]

Bury (an ancestral town)

How apt.

[Burnaby49]

I should have explained that we have been to London (a week about 15 years ago) and also took the train to Edinburgh, returning through York. This is only our second trip, and we wanted to see Bath, Wells, etc., and the Cotswalds. We'll only spend a night or so in London for the flavor and may go out to Windsor Castle -- which we haven't seen.

(PS -- Mrs. Prof is trying to convince me to go; I want to go to see our son in CA and her brother in Denver -- the Denver leg gives me the opportunity to go up to Nebraska, where I understand there is a significan grouse infestation.)

Thanks again.

The Cotswalds or Nebraska? I'm going with Mrs. Prof on this one. Re Cotswolds: I've been, or been through them, three times and it really requires a car. Lots of small scattered villages not linked by rail.

[Pottapaug1938]

Bury (an ancestral town)

How apt.

And just why do you think my great-grandmother left to come over here?

[Pottapaug1938]

If we can ignore Pottapaug's abysmal taste in music (a big if)

Someone who evidently prefers Blue Cheer to The Who calls MY taste in music abysmal?????

[wserra]

The Cotswalds or Nebraska? I'm going with Mrs. Prof on this one.

But you don't realize that Prof has a second career, in grouse elimination.

[Burnaby49]

If we can ignore Pottapaug's abysmal taste in music (a big if)

Someone who evidently prefers Blue Cheer to The Who calls MY taste in music abysmal?????

You're confused, the ravages of age can do that to a man. Deep Knight was the one who claimed to be a Blue Cheer fan. He also admitted to a fondness for Vanilla Fudge, showing how evil and depraved the Illuminati really are.

Back in the day my favorite musicians were The Band, Stones, Beatles, Creedence, Loving Spoonful, and Dylan.

[The Dog]

I should have explained that we have been to London (a week about 15 years ago) and also took the train to Edinburgh, returning through York. This is only our second trip, and we wanted to see Bath, Wells, etc., and the Cotswalds. We'll only spend a night or so in London for the flavor and may go out to Windsor Castle -- which we haven't seen.

(PS -- Mrs. Prof is trying to convince me to go; I want to go to see our son in CA and her brother in Denver -- the Denver leg gives me the opportunity to go up to Nebraska, where I understand there is a significan grouse infestation.)

Thanks again.

Although Bath and Windsor are well served by trains http://www.nationalrail.co.uk the Cotswolds are less well served. There is a rail line from Oxford to Worcester, but it doesn't serve many places, the trains are infrequent and in some cases the railway stations are some distance from the towns after which they are named. I would suggest a car, at least for this bit. In the Cotswolds, I can recommend The Forge at Churchill,
http://www.cotswolds-bedandbreakfast.co ... /index.asp
(car essential). Similarly, Wells has no railway station and not much of a bus service.

Stonehenge can be visited by public transport from Salisbury (which otherwise has a fine cathedral). It is worth walking around the fields surrounding Stonehenge (the view of the stones from the rise to the south of the A303 is good if you can blot out the very heavy traffic). I prefer Avebury to Stonehenge (Avebury can be reached by bus from Swindon - do not linger there) in part because it is possible to walk up to the stones and there is some fine walking in the area. Avebury village is itself quite attractive.

There are serious delays at immigration at Heathrow, so I would suggest using another airport if possible.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviatio ... warns.html
I understand that Birmingham has direct flights to New York and Orlando and is fairly close to the Cotswolds. My personal favourite, London City can be reached easily changing at Schipol.

Feel free to PM me for specifics.

[ArthurWankspittle]

Bury (an ancestral town)

How apt.

And just why do you think my great-grandmother left to come over here?

The boat never made it to Australia?

[Burnaby49]

There are serious delays at immigration at Heathrow, so I would suggest using another airport if possible.

I prefer Manchester or Gatwick. Gatwick has reasonably priced trains running directly from the terminal to downtown london. The best deal when I was there last was First capital Connect to St Pancras station. Last I checked the London Express to Victoria Station was considerably more expensive. However, if you are finicky, Gatwick is a dump and can have customs issues, particularly now in the Olympic period.

[webhick]

You have to get into the studio audience of the Graham Norton Show, get in the Red Chair and send a shout out your homies here at Q. You'll have to be quick, though, since if you bore him at all he'll flip your ass before you even get a word out.

[Kestrel]

How about a visit to Warwick Castle?

You can skip the tourist trap events. The grounds and the castle interiors are fascinating enough by themselves.

[Pottapaug1938]

Bury (an ancestral town)

How apt.[/quote]

And just why do you think my great-grandmother left to come over here?[/quote]The boat never made it to Australia?[/quote]

Well, the BOAT may have made it to Australia, but Annie didn't. A textile millworker, she preferred working in a mill in Massachusetts to herding sheep Down Under....

[Burnaby49]

Bury (an ancestral town)

How apt.

And just why do you think my great-grandmother left to come over here? The boat never made it to Australia?

Well, the BOAT may have made it to Australia, but Annie didn't. A textile millworker, she preferred working in a mill in Massachusetts to herding sheep Down Under....

My mother was also a British textile worker who emigrated. She worked as a weaver in mills in Lancashire and came to Canada in 1946 or 1947. Got a job at the West Coast Woolens Mill in Vancouver, now long gone.

[ArthurWankspittle]

Sorry, I think my English humour has bypassed you. There was usually a reason we sent people to Australia a century or two ago, they chose it over hanging or jail time. Hence our belief that Australia is full of criminals' descendants with warped accents.
Olympics will be over by September and "holidays" will generally be finished. Schools tend to go back the start of September, colleges and universities late September early October. It's been years since I've flown but both Gatwick and Heathrow are busy places most of the time but access to London by rail is simple. Which bit of London is another matter, it's a big place. (London has a population of about 7 million - that's more than all of Scotland.)
What you are proposing, London then heading west, hiring a car to look around, makes sense. Train out of London to Bath or wherever then hire a car and drive round the Cotswolds. You should be able to find Bed and Breakfast type places to stay overnight in the Cotswolds, just have a tour around. Depends what you are interested in but consider Chipping Camden and Oxford as places to look round as well as Bath.

(And as for Bury - home of the Black Pudding - enough said.)