!!!JIM NORMAN INDICTED!!!

[ex-con]

So I met Jim in the Don Jail (Toronto) in June 2010. He said he had been in jail since December 2009. I only was there for a few weeks, but he seemed like a good guy. Talked about his family alot, kids and wife. Talked about being a big jazz drummer too. Said he was really rich. Said that he was fighting being sent to the US and when I got released he was saying that everything had worked out with proving everything he had said was true and as soon as it cleared the courts he would be out.

So from your perspective is any of this true? Is a big jazz drummer? Does he have a family and kids?

One post here mentions photos of his apt and bare pipes. Where are those photos from? Does he not have any money?

Just curious...hearing two very different sides to the same person is interesting.

[wserra]

So from your perspective is any of this true?

He may have a wife and kids. I don't know. The rest is a crock.

Is a big jazz drummer?

Only if he's over six feet tall and weighs over 200 lbs. Certainly not in respect to his musical accomplishments.

And there's still nothing new on the docket. Extradition from Canada simply doesn't take this long. He may be serving a Canadian sentence first. Or he's not in Canadian custody after all.

Welcome to Quatloos, ex-con.

[ex-con]

I meant is he a muscian or is that a scame as well?

Well, I did time w him in the Don Jail in June. so he certainly was there. While I didnt talk to him to much, I talked to others who did. He said he was fighting the extradition by proving he was who he claimed to be and had the resources he said he had.

You dont know about those photos someone mentioned showing a run down apartement?

Just really trying to wrap my head around it. Cause he tells a good story and even talked about how their are sites up trying to discredt him.

Anything else you could lead me to that proves anything would be good. Thanks.

[wserra]

I meant is he a muscian or is that a scame as well?

If this is the guy you're talking about, he obviously thinks he is. It appears that precious few others do.

He said he was fighting the extradition by proving he was who he claimed to be and had the resources he said he had.

That doesn't even constitute legal grounds to fight extradition.

You dont know about those photos someone mentioned showing a run down apartement?

Nope.

Cause he tells a good story

That's exactly what con men do. How do you think they convince people to give them their money?

and even talked about how their are sites up trying to discredt him.

Take a look around Quatloos. Norman doesn't come close to appearing in 1% of the threads here. A garden variety crook, one whose federal indictment is here.

[notorial dissent]

I think you are being too kind to poor ole Jimmy boy, giving him much too much credit, he doesn't even rate as common garden variety, he is more of the pathetic waste of protoplasm variety than anything else.

[ex-con]

Guess I am just wanting some prrof one way or the other.

[Funkalicious]

It's a shame that most of the Quatloos material on Jim Norman has been lost to various database meltdowns. I finally signed up for an account here when I discovered that some elderly neighbors of mine were likely being targeted by accomplices of Jim.

From what I can remember, Norman had sent many of the photos you seem to be referencing to his marks and accomplices as well as using them on his personal website. The man shown in the could have been Norman, although some of them looked like different people. And this was before the days of having metadata embedded in digital photos, so there was very little way to determine whether the person consistently referred to as Norman was actually him.

FWIW, I thought that the photos of him in a room with exposed pipes looked more like a loft or performance space than a run-down basement apartment. Again, however, there was no way to tell if the man shown actually was Norman.

Jim will always hold a special place in my heart. Living in a town with many skeevy characters on multiple axes of skeeviness, Jim showed me that the Internet has made the world a local community -- my neighbors didn't have to settle for being hoodwinked by people nearby; they could be involved in an international conspiracy.

[as if]

Jim Norman has never been married nor has he sired any children.

Any riches he has are ill gotten.

He does play drums but not professionally.

He has narcissistic personality disorder and is a sociopath.

Last I heard he was still trying to raise money from his jail cell. Seems if he just payed the court costs, blah, blah, blah...

[Gregg]

Anyone have a contact for restitution process?

Santa Claus?
Easter Bunny?
David Merrill Van Pelt?


Not a lot of hope, sorry.

[Automotion]

I do have to pipe in here,

I had been to this 'run down' loft many times in 2005.. and it was anything but. It was about 3000 squarefeet with the best of EVERYTHING in there.. equipment, computers, furniture, home theatre, kitchen and so on. It was impressive to say the least, actually it was awesome. He was surely getting his money's worth out of hosing people, that's for sure.

He was always pretty generous and openly talking about this, that and the other when it came to success.. but when I asked him what he did.. it was just "The internet'. When I apparently pissed him off, that's when the 'other side' came out and I got about 100 of those verbal diarrhea emails in block capitals that made zero sense.

And yes, before he went cookoo - he was a professional musician - just a little 'out there', as I know many who had played with him in the past and on those albums.

Regardless, I hope he's been found and sitting in a jailcell.

[supergrover]

just wondering if anyone has any updated on the bastard lately.... has he been deported to the US or is he still in the Don ? Was he sentenced ?

thanks ya all

[wserra]

The docket still consists of the indictment and the arrest warrant (issued September 12, 2007). As I wrote over a year ago, extradition from Canada doesn't take this long (now, anywhere near this long). The possibilities: (1) he is not in Canadian custody after all, (2) he is serving a Canadian sentence, or (3) the U.S. has for whatever reason decided not to extradite.

[supergrover]

I found this .... in the court records

http://www.scc-csc.gc.ca/case-dossier/c ... ?cas=34285

[Burnaby49]

And this, the case referred to in the SCC denial of leave;

http://www.ontariocourts.ca/decisions/2 ... CA0327.htm

[wserra]

From those docs, it appears that last October was the end of the line for Norman in Canadian courts. He should have been promptly extradited thereafter (assuming the U.S. still wanted him, which seems likely). The only out would appear to be if some trial court permitted him to show his "further evidence".

Anybody have access to the trial court records?

[Burnaby49]

There is nothing further I can find in Canadian courts. The Canadian government was not interested in any argument he had about being able to win his case. They just wanted rid of him and I assume he's gone. If not he's been held at Her Majesty's pleasure for over a year since the SCC rejection which seems unlikely.

[Burnaby49]

Now that I'm in front of the computer with a bottle of wine and Gibert and Sullivan on the headphones (Martyn Green's superb 1953 Columbia album of patter songs (I am the very model of a modern Major-General, I've information vegetable, animal, and mineral . . . . ) ahem, sorry, I digress, I've re-visited the Court of Appeal for Ontario's decision. I'm very familiar with Canadian appeals court's verdicts and this one is about as concise and dissmissive as I've ever seen. The entire decision, as in the whole damn thing, is:

[1] There was evidence upon which the extradition judge could commit the appellant for extradition. While the appellant claims to have a defence to the charges, that is a matter for trial in the United States. Accordingly, the appeal is dismissed. As to the judicial review, the Minister has provided reasons that address the appellant’s claims and we see no reviewable error in the Minister’s reasons. The appellant says that he is now in a position to provide further evidence that will show that he should not be surrendered. We have no jurisdiction to direct the Minister to receive those submissions. That is a matter within his discretion under s. 43(2) of the Extradition Act.

[2] Accordingly, the application for judicial review is dismissed.

I've never seen one shorter or more brutal. Generally they get a little warm and fuzzy about rights of the accused and such and give a little background. This one they just want to get out the court as quickly as possible so they can open the windows and get rid of the smell.

[wserra]

This is not making much sense. Where is the guy?

As a last resort, I checked the BOP inmate locator. There is one David Norman, black male age 63, in the MCC here in Manhattan. Release date "unknown", meaning he has not yet been sentenced. Sounds like our guy, right?

And it is. Not only does he have a pending indictment in South Carolina, he has one here in NY.

The govt's summary description:

the Indictment arises out of the investigation of two interrelated fraudulent schemes that are believed to have defrauded over 100 victims of more than $5 million. Both of the schemes are “advance fee” schemes, a common fraudulent scheme under which victims are induced to pay money to someone in anticipation of receiving something of greater value, such as a loan, contract, investment, or gift, and then receive little or nothing in return. (Irwin Aff. ¶ 7). Specifically, victims were persuaded to invest in defendant Norman’s scheme (charged as Count One of the Indictment), and in defendant Ingram’s scheme (charged as Count Two of the Indictment), with promises that the victims were to obtain 500% returns on investment or greater within a matter of weeks by paying for legal fees or other expenses incurred by investment accounts or other investment vehicles located abroad that had been extremely profitable, but that could not be distributed to investors without payment of the required fees. Specifically, Norman’s program purported to offer investors, inter alia, the opportunity to realize proceeds from a profitable investment account allegedly held with the World Bank in a foreign country.

Ingram’s program purported to offer investors, inter alia, the opportunity to invest in profitable notes issued by the Federal Reserve abroad. Investors in both programs were informed that proceeds from the notes could only be repatriated once fees and expenses incurred by the fund are paid. (Irwin Aff. ¶ 9(a)). Ultimately, none of the victims received the promised returns, and the perpetrators of both schemes used victims’ funds for personal expenses, or to send remaining funds to co-conspirators.

Sounds familiar.

While Norman was sitting in a Canadian jail fighting deportation - time for which he will not get credit here - two of his codefendants pleaded guilty. Bowen received five years; Ingram received twelve years. The remaining defendants - Dodakian and Wu - were convicted after a jury trial in 2010. Dodakian received eight years, Wu seven.

Norman is now alone, which is a double-edged sword. One one hand, he won't have to worry about codefendants damaging his case in defending themselves; on the other, he will have the jury's full attention. No trial date has yet been set. I know Norman's lawyer, but would not presume on a friendship by asking him for anything other than what is already public record. There is a full trial record from the Dodakian-Wu trial. If anyone is interested, I might be able to obtain that.

No more mystery, only - at long last - justice.

[supergrover]

...Here Here to Justice!!!

You get what you put into life, if you steal Karma is a bitch! I truly hope he rots for a long long time and never see another free day.

Thanks for all your help here, this has given me some closure.

ps
I will post updates when its available and will check back from time to time.

Once again Thanks!

[wserra]

Thanks for all your help here, this has given me some closure.

Answering for myself, it's been a pleasure. Closure is important. Come back and see us; I'll keep the thread updated as well.