Maryland slot machine proposal

[fortinbras]

Maryland, where I live, is evidently considering, simultaneously, two separate proposals for licensing casinos (primarily or exclusively - at least at the start - for slot machines), one in Baltimore at the harbor and another in Prince George's County which borders the northeast side of DC. These are both being touted as cures for the sour economy.

There is, I found out, already a slots casino in the Salisbury, Md, area, which borders Delaware, and another in Arundel Mills, which is not far from Baltimore. There are also casinos in the neighboring states of Delaware, Pennsylvania and West Virginia, and, to the south, in Virginia.

My point is that, unlike Atlantic City in 1978, Maryland is already surrounded by states with legalized gambling, so it's not as if tourists from other states are going to drive to Maryland to throw their money away, because these tourists would be bypassing casinos in other states on their way to Maryland. So Maryland's casinos will primarily be taking money from vulnerable Marylanders, the very people already suffering from the sour economy, the people who were supposed to be helped, not hurt, by the legalization of gambling.

My argument on this doesn't seem to persuade other people, but do you find any validity in it?

[The Observer]

Since you mention that Maryland is surrounded by casinos in next-door states, I can't help but wonder if the downtrodden people in your state are not already taking their minimal earnings and wagering. If that is the case, then Maryland may have decided if people are stupid enough to bet against the house, they might as well lose that money inside the state rather than outside the state.

[JamesVincent]

Since you mention that Maryland is surrounded by casinos in next-door states, I can't help but wonder if the downtrodden people in your state are not already taking their minimal earnings and wagering. If that is the case, then Maryland may have decided if people are stupid enough to bet against the house, they might as well lose that money inside the state rather than outside the state.

Bingo. There is a very large casino in Charlestown, WV that attracts a very large amount of Marylanders since its about an hour from Baltimore, little less from Washington. One of the strongest arguments presented during the casino debates was the fact that a lot of MD's money was leaving the state to WV or Deleware. Originally the casinos were to be located in existing horse race tracks, like Charlestown is, but was changed when the track owners refused to abide by some of the statutes that were to be implemented so they went to free-standing buildings, like Arundel Mills, which is about 15 mins from my house. The owners of Charlestown spent millions of dollars in ads trying to get Anne Arundel county to vote against building the casino here, including ads saying how the crime rate would go up around the casino. It didnt work, especially after they were exposed paying for all the anti-casino ads.

[Kestrel]

I used to live near St. Louis. On the Illinois side is the community of Alton, home of Argosy's Alton Belle Riverboat Casino.

Alton used to be home to heavy industry and manufacturing. About 50-60 years ago most of the industry had moved on and the community declined. Yet it continued to be mostly self-sustaining, largely inhabited by lower income people who ran small businesses.

The economic revivalists believed a riverboat casino would bring fresh money into the area. What it did to locals living paycheck-to-paycheck was suck away much of their disposable income. Many small businesses failed and the formerly sustainable neighborhoods surrounding the casino now look like economic disasters.

There's something about the "convenience" of a casino in your own neighborhood which sucks money out of that community, money that would not have been lost gambling if the gamblers had to drive an hour or more to reach the casino in the next state over.

Early one month I visited a riverboat casino restaurant for the Sunday brunch buffet, and I'll never forget what I saw in the parking lot. A woman was sitting on the tailgate of a shiny pickup truck, cigarette dangling from her fingers, long tube of undisturbed ash hanging from the tip. She was dressed to party, but sat motionless with an absolutely blank expression. Something about her told me that she'd taken her paycheck to the casino on Saturday, lost it all, and spent the rest of the night tapping the all-to-convenient casino ATM to chase her losses. In the harsh sunlight there were no more bells, no more colored fluorescent lights, no more jackpot payoff counters, no more complimentary drinks. There was only the realization that she no longer had the money for food, rent, or the payment on that shiny pickup truck.

[Burzmali]

Since you mention that Maryland is surrounded by casinos in next-door states, I can't help but wonder if the downtrodden people in your state are not already taking their minimal earnings and wagering. If that is the case, then Maryland may have decided if people are stupid enough to bet against the house, they might as well lose that money inside the state rather than outside the state.

That assumes that the proceeds from the casino are kept in-state and not funneled to out-of-state investors.

[The Observer]

That assumes that the proceeds from the casino are kept in-state and not funneled to out-of-state investors.

I wasn't speaking to the proceeds earned by the casino, but the tax receipts on the casinos' income.

[Pottapaug1938]

I used to live near St. Louis. On the Illinois side is the community of Alton, home of Argosy's Alton Belle Riverboat Casino.

Alton used to be home to heavy industry and manufacturing. About 50-60 years ago most of the industry had moved on and the community declined. Yet it continued to be mostly self-sustaining, largely inhabited by lower income people who ran small businesses.

The economic revivalists believed a riverboat casino would bring fresh money into the area. What it did to locals living paycheck-to-paycheck was suck away much of their disposable income. Many small businesses failed and the formerly sustainable neighborhoods surrounding the casino now look like economic disasters.

There's something about the "convenience" of a casino in your own neighborhood which sucks money out of that community, money that would not have been lost gambling if the gamblers had to drive an hour or more to reach the casino in the next state over.

Early one month I visited a riverboat casino restaurant for the Sunday brunch buffet, and I'll never forget what I saw in the parking lot. A woman was sitting on the tailgate of a shiny pickup truck, cigarette dangling from her fingers, long tube of undisturbed ash hanging from the tip. She was dressed to party, but sat motionless with an absolutely blank expression. Something about her told me that she'd taken her paycheck to the casino on Saturday, lost it all, and spent the rest of the night tapping the all-to-convenient casino ATM to chase her losses. In the harsh sunlight there were no more bells, no more colored fluorescent lights, no more jackpot payoff counters, no more complimentary drinks. There was only the realization that she no longer had the money for food, rent, or the payment on that shiny pickup truck.

This, and what has been said above, is what people in Massachusetts are ignoring in their lemming-like rush for construction and casino jobs. We are still fighting over the details; but some day I expect to see cities and towns like Atlantic City where the life and money has been sucked out of entire neighborhoods and communities because everyone goes to spend money at the casinos. We are told that we must have casinos to stop our gamblers -- excuse me -- "gaming enthusiasts" -- from going to Mohegan Sun or Foxwoods. We are told that we will attract out-of-state money to our "destination resorts", and that we will have scads of money to spend on services, without the need to raise taxes. What will happen, then, when the other New England states, plus the Middle Atlantic states follow suit with their own "destination casinos"? What do we do next -- offer "safely administered" recreational drugs, or "safe" prostitutes? How do we keep that commercial advantage over the casinos of other states?

My late father-in-law used to go to casinos on vacations. He had a set budget, and he stuck to it; but more than once he remembered seeing gamblers in hotel lobbies,face in hands, who had obviously lost EVERYTHING. No more comps of freebies for these people; they had no more money to blow, so they got only sympathy from the cash-hungry casinos.

[Prof]

I have been to Las Vegas on a number of trips (I have to attend an annual meeting there every year). After talking to many of my friends, who go to Vegas regularly for fun, I have often wondered how the casinos stay in business and afford those marvelous facilities and fancy hotels. After all, they just give money away -- everyone is a winner, gets a comp room, comp meals, etc. Since no one I know ever claims to have lost, the gambling industry must make its money on something other than gaming.

[Pottapaug1938]

On the few occasions when I have gone into a casino, I go in withonly what I am prepared to lose fully. No ATM or credit cards, and no "cash reserves". My goal is to see how long I can keep the money going. If I somehow get a decent win and I come out more than a few cents ahead, that's it -- I cash out and treat myself to something with my profit. Overall, I've lost money; but I've never bet enough so that I can't make it back easily in a week of work.

[The Observer]

Since no one I know ever claims to have lost, the gambling industry must make its money on something other than gaming.

You haven't heard about the huge organ-harvesting scheme the casinos have set up by kidnapping the losers and selling off their hearts, lungs, livers and kidneys? That is why you are only encountering winners from Vegas.

[Burzmali]

That assumes that the proceeds from the casino are kept in-state and not funneled to out-of-state investors.

I wasn't speaking to the proceeds earned by the casino, but the tax receipts on the casinos' income.

Counting of prospective tax receipts is not unlike assuming the number of fowl embryos you possess will match the number of live hatchings.

I'm too familiar with the odds to gamble without playing to maximize my chances, which sucks out any enjoyment I might garner at the blackjack or craps table compared to blowing $20 in the casino's arcade.

Oddly enough, the gambling section of Quatloos was what originally brought me here.

[fortinbras]

The Maryland casino proposals may well be a ploy to keep the money that Marylanders are already losing in WV and Delaware inside Maryland. Somehow exploiting the weaknesses of one's own citizens, even under such circumstances, seems a bit shady. Heck, the state might just as well sell its own brand of mj and crack and keep that money from going to the drug cartels. I suspect that making the casinos so much more convenient to vulnerable Marylanders is not going to produce only good news.

I have been to Las Vegas and to Atlantic City (in AC, you can see the Taj Mahal on the boardwalk and starting two blocks away the rest of the city is Calcutta) and my wife enjoys the slots. (Thank God, she enjoys the penny and nickel slots!) She is sufficiently lucky/clever that she mostly wins ... enough that it's a cheap weekend, not a big jackpot but something to defray the hotel and other expenses so it's cheaper than a weekend at Disneyland. If we insisted on gambling for the big jackpot I think we'd have to walk home to our cardboard box.

[Cpt Banjo]

I can think of nothing more boring than playing a slot machine. Oh, wait -- there's roulette, which is a lot slower and may have a larger house edge.

But it's easy to understand why some get hooked on playing for hours at a one-armed bandit (of course, it's all electronic now and the arms are gone), best exemplified in the classic Twilight Zone episode, "The Fever".



"Franklin! Franklin!"

[fortinbras]

To a tiny extent, the slots are now like video games - success means keeping your coin in play for as long as possible.

[Kestrel]

Me? Las Vegas gets my money only through food and beverage purchases and the $100 I blow on gambling - and yes I look for the el cheapo blackjack tables, because I want my fun to last - unlike some who think it is going to be their new career.

I quit playing blackjack in the mid-1990s. By then the game was rigged by shuffling to have a strong pro-casino bias.

In the dawn of the home computer era I learned how to count cards and win at blackjack. Back then it was possible to use a simple +/- counting strategy and win. I never got caught because I had a penny-ante gambling budget, and the blackjack dealers didn't believe that someone would put that much effort into card-counting for $5 bets.

Fast-forward 10+ years and everyone got high speed computers, particularly the casinos. Through millions of simulations, the casinos figured out that a blackjack deck which is shuffled only twice through is stacked in favor of the house. This is because when blackjack hands are collected in the discard tray they are kept intact in 2 to 4 card groups totaling about 21, and because when a player and the dealer both bust the dealer wins the bet.

If your blackjack dealer is hand shuffling, pick a deck segment and watch it. She'll make a lot of shuffle sounds by riffling the deck, but each clump of cards is only shuffled twice. Should you be at a machine-shuffled table and able to stand the heat from the pit boss, watch the cards fall through the shuffling tower window. You'll see large clumps fall from one side, then the other, then a small group of cards which actually gets shuffled. The machine is programmed so that even though the cards make 5 or 6 passes down the tower, each section of the deck is only shuffled twice.

Now the only game I'll play, on those very rare occasions when I do play, is craps. I stick strictly to the Don't Come/ Don't Pass lines and play odds, which gives the house a less than 1% edge. If I lose at craps it'll be in dribbles down to my limit. If I win it'll be one big "jackpot" payoff which is easy to scoop up and carry off.

[Kestrel]

To a tiny extent, the slots are now like video games - success means keeping your coin in play for as long as possible.

I disagree. That's only true if the player has a slight edge over the house. You only "win" at slots if you cash out the first time you hit a small jackpot.

Slots have a 94% to 97% payback. Each time your $100 passes through the machine you get only $94 to $97 back. At 95%, by the 13th pass, on average you only have $51 left of each $100 you put into play.

[Pottapaug1938]

To a tiny extent, the slots are now like video games - success means keeping your coin in play for as long as possible.

A lot of the rush from playing slots comes from all the sounds the machine is programmed to make. Another example of this comes from watching people dump coins into coin-counting machines. I've actually seen people unwrapping rolled coins to dump the coins in and hear the machine tinkling away, or they take a small jar of change which could easily be wrapped and taken to their bank and stand there, enchanted, while the machine clanks, whirs, tinkles and clunks -- and charges an 8.9 cent entertainment fee.

There's no way that I'm going to kiss off 9% of my money to dump them in a machine which is not known for accurate counting (I've experimented twice, and come up short both times). My wife and I roll a little at a time, and then take the rolls to the bank. It's not all that difficult or burdensome.

[fortinbras]

To everyone who has to roll coins, I heartily recommend Plastichange rollers.

https://www.apenloversparadise.com/products/?cat=48

This are stiff plastic coin rolls, a size for each denomination of US coin, into which you place the coins. You know when you have the exact number: If you're short, the row of coins will flop around loosely, if you put in one coin too many the roll won't close. Big time saver and much less frustration than those paper rolls.

[wserra]

I have a question for anyone who gambles at casinos: why?

If you like to gamble, it's easy enough to find (or start) a game among friends. I don't particularly enjoy the gambling part, but have played in a couple of games that went on for years. Why would anyone choose to gamble somewhere where the house takes a skim? The only reason I can think of is that one gets off on high stakes, and can't get a big enough game elsewhere.

[Cathulhu]

My elderly parents (hey, I ain't that young myself!) like to go to a casino that's about midway between our homes, and regularly call me and ask me to join them there. So, just to see them without driving 200 miles, I go to the loathsome place and do penny slots in the machine next to my mom so we can talk.

I hate casinos. They reek of smoke (I gotta shower and wash every stitch I wore when I get home, seriously, or spouse's asthma goes nuts.) and they reek of losers. I set myself a strict limit on the money, so I've never lost more than $40. On occasion I come out maybe the same amount ahead. Since I figure the money as cost to see the parents and hang for an afternoon, it doesn't affect me a lot. But I find it painful to watch the parents lose $500, which is the usual outcome. Then they get back on their bus and go home poorer.Yeah, they can afford it, but I don't like it.

I especially loathe the tv commercials, showing young happy people gambling, dancing and laughing, in a bright smokeless environment. I don't think I've ever seen that. The casinos are full of ancient wrecks in wheelchairs with oxygen connected, and I, in my almost 60 years old glory, get hit on as the youngest lady there. I've promised myself that when the parents stop, I'll gladly never set foot in one again. Although I have been offered jobs in the accounting department.