Looking for poker theory books?

[deontebolaw]

A few of my friends have been playing poker online and have been trying to get me to play. The downside is I have a basic idea how to play but don't have any skills to ever win on my own even at micro stakes. I have played a little preferring tournament type games.

I could do with a few recommendations on books to read or even which author/players have the best books to read.

[The Observer]

A few of my friends have been playing poker online and have been trying to get me to play. The downside is I have a basic idea how to play but don't have any skills to ever win on my own even at micro stakes. I have played a little preferring tournament type games.

I could do with a few recommendations on books to read or even which author/players have the best books to read.

My first advice is that, if you don't have any poker skills, picking up any book is not likely to improve your play and you will just end up losing your hard-earned money.

My second piece of advice is that, if your post was only for the purpose of coming back later to edit and to add advertising or a link to a commercial site, don't expect it to work. The administrator and moderators are very quick at editing/deleting such posts, and locking the thread.

[notorial dissent]

If you have to have a book to play poker, online or otherwise, you have NO business doing so.

As to other things what Observer said, you'll be gone so fast your head will spin.

[fortinbras]

I would like to call attention to the fact that online poker (and some other games) are easy to 'fix', and many of these online casinos take but never give. Among the ways that online poker can be rigged is if two or more of the other players against you are in cahoots, communicating their hands to each other by some means such as direct phone line, so they can combine to sandbag you.

I recommend Gin Rummy as a much more challenging game, but if you want to learn poker I suggest getting a game CD at the computer store, the kind that will simply play and play without any real money being involved. You'll need a LOT of practice to take on the big boys.

[Olsenfin]

I disagree that someone new to poker cannot benefit greatly from reading a good poker book (or two). My poker game is a LOT better since reading a couple of books, for several reasons: First, because I understand the odds of a given situation a lot better, now that I've memorized a few. Example: In Texas Hold'Em, you were dealt two diamonds, and the flop contains two more diamonds. All you need is for another diamond to come up once in the next two cards (the "Turn" and the "River"). Seemingly, a pretty good situation.

But you've got only a 36% chance of that happening. Knowing that will help you to determine whether to call the raise. Of course, the odds aren't everything. You need to "play the player", too. There are books out there that help you do that.

For those who insist that books on poker won't help you play poker, I suggest the following: Go to a poker tournament, the bigger the better. Ask the any of the pros there, guys (or gals) who are known to be very good, how many books on poker he or she has read.

[Montana Notasovrun]

I live in a state where live poker is legal and I play somewhat regularly. An old veteran told me, its any easy game that will cost you between 8 to 12 thousand dollars to learn. I've read books - they help. You will be helped by knowing when it is a good time to call a bet, raise, or fold. Every very good player knows the odds and that knowledge helps with these decisions. Something you won't get from the books is knowing the odds of the other players conduct, in other words, how often with a raise do they have a hand or are they bluffing? It is a challenging game. Many hours of play are required to improve. Although it is a game of skill, I wish you good luck.

[Dezcad]

What is your skill level and knowledge?

Depending on that, I'd suggest different books.

For No Limit Hold Em, you cannot beat Dan Harrington's 3 Volume Tournament series or his 2 Volume Cash Game series. But these books assume a strong knowledge of basics.

But if you want advice from the right crowd, go to theTwo Plus Two forums or or any poker forum.

Not sure why you posted this in Q.

[webhick]

Name of the forum says Gambling right in it.

[The Observer]

And again, I have serious doubts that the originator of this thread is really looking for advice on books that will improve his skills. And if he were, the advice that he has received so far has either been very vague, referred him to go to other websites or, in the one case of being specific, the qualifier was that he needed to have some strong basic skills for those titles. So I am not convinced that picking up a book on poker is going to make a difference.

The only real good advice that I saw offered was to play and be willing to pay up to $10K in losses to get really educated. That is problably the best advice that comes closest to the truth.

For those who insist that books on poker won't help you play poker, I suggest the following: Go to a poker tournament, the bigger the better. Ask the any of the pros there, guys (or gals) who are known to be very good, how many books on poker he or she has read.

I would suggest also asking those same pros how many tournaments that they have played in and their win-loss-ratio. I daresay the more successful ones have spent the majority of their time playing rather than reading.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Any professional endeavor relies on the advice of people in the profession.

If you don't believe that, you're doomed.

In the extant matter, my sense is the OP wandered in without understanding the forum's culture.

[The Observer]

Any professional endeavor relies on the advice of people in the profession.

If you don't believe that, you're doomed.

But gambling as a profession lacks the specifics and guarantees another type of profession would be able to put into a book, such as medicine or engineering. And these professions still rely on instruction in the classroom and practical experience before granting a license/degree.

You don't get any of that with gambling books, because despite what is taught, it doesn't mean that the cards are going to follow the theories laid out by the author. Those who think that they have come with a sure-fire way or system to beat the odds are the ones who are really doomed. They are failing to acknowledge that there is only going to be one winner at the poker table and that the winner got there with a percentage of randomness in their favor.

[notorial dissent]

OK, first and foremost, I don't care what or how many books you read, they are not going to give you any skill at playing poker. They will tell you the basics, and how, and that is all, and I don't care what any of the poker gurus tell you. Poker is a game of skill with a certain amount of luck thrown in just to ruin the odds. If you don't have the sense of the cards, all you are is chump change to the actual players and winners. No amount of reading will give you this.

If you want to play video poker, there are all sorts of really good games available that you can play against, and set the skill and difficulty levels on, and see if you can actually beat a game, without costing you your life's savings. If someone were really serious I would recommend that before anything else, but in the main, if you don't know how to play, stay the hell away from the online games, or just cut out the middle man and mail your losings to me and save yourself the grief.

[fortinbras]

If you are determined to play poker, the most important book for you is your bank book.

The number of people who actually make a good living playing poker (and playing honestly) is very small - fewer than the number of rich law librarians. The number of people living out of doors after trying to make a living playing poker, on the other hand, .....

[fortinbras]

It turns out that (former) comedian Gabe Kaplan (of TV's Welcome Back Kotter, a million years ago) is now deep into poker playing as a career, and has some comments on it:

http://www.vcreporter.com/cms/story/det ... ars/11175/

[Dezcad]

They are failing to acknowledge that there is only going to be one winner at the poker table and that the winner got there with a percentage of randomness in their favor.

The first part of this sentence is not true. While poker is a zero-sum game, at a full, or even partially full game, many more than one can be a winner, if the fish, or fishes (poker terms), are present and have money.

Keep in mind that poker is different than other games played against the house (video poker, slots, blackjack, craps, roulette). Those games against the house have an inherent statistical loss rate (unless you are as proficient as the MIT and other blackjack teams).

Poker, although the house takes a rake/fee, is against other players and in the long run, a really good player has a distinct advantage.

I would not, however, advise anyone to have career aspirations because the long run (statistically) can be a very long time and the variance inherent is difficult to overcome (along with leaks that every player has).

Just my $0.02 as an amateur player who knows a few pros.

[Dezcad]

Name of the forum says Gambling right in it.

I should have been more specific.

"Not sure why you posted this in Q."

should have been

"Not sure why you posted this in Q when there are numerous other forums that will provide you much better insight and recommendations."

Better?

[Montana Notasovrun]

I play live cash games. I am not a tournament player as I am not a good tournament player. There is a winner every hand and I've had nights where I didn't win a pot and nights where I won many. Luck is certainly a factor, and in low limit games, a big factor. There is no substitute for experience. Books do help, but that's all. The books help the author more than the player, but some tips are quite valuable. Last night I cashed out with more than I started with at a very tough table. One old "pro", a friend and world series veteran, told me the only way I could take money off that table was with a gun. Luck and good decision making are key to profitability. The books help you to learn how to make good decisions, experience verifies the teaching, and luck is never certain. Winning poker is all about making good decisions. Playing poker is a hard way to make an easy living.

[Dezcad]

I play live cash games. I am not a tournament player as I am not a good tournament player. There is a winner every hand and I've had nights where I didn't win a pot and nights where I won many. Luck is certainly a factor, and in low limit games, a big factor. There is no substitute for experience. Books do help, but that's all. The books help the author more than the player, but some tips are quite valuable. Last night I cashed out with more than I started with at a very tough table. One old "pro", a friend and world series veteran, told me the only way I could take money off that table was with a gun. Luck and good decision making are key to profitability. The books help you to learn how to make good decisions, experience verifies the teaching, and luck is never certain. Winning poker is all about making good decisions. Playing poker is a hard way to make an easy living.

Yes, and the biggest decision in cash games is often the first decision you have to make - game selection. Being the 10th best player in the world at a game with the 9 best is a losing proposition. Better to pick a "soft" lineup than a hard one.

[The Observer]

And as expected, our original poster has now created a signature linking to a commercial bingo site. I know all of you are shocked, shocked I tell ya, that he was not sincerely interested in learning how to play poker from books. Locking the thread and requesting the admins to deal with the signature link.