Getting Borked

[jerkscomicsjerk]

Hello all,

I've recently discovered your forum during a contentious Facebook debate with a bunch of "state nationals" led by L-B Bork himself. I have simply asked one question: "have you any publicly verifiable proof that 'state nationality' exists, and if so, that it has ever defeated federal jurisdiction"? Of course the answer is no. Rather than just admit it, the Bork clan has ganged up on me -- 5 or 6 would-be "state nationals" -- making strange deductive arguments about grammar that 'proves' their case, pointing to federal writing style manuals to state propositions that can't be found, and even offering one guy's municipal speeding ticket that was dismissed as 'proof'. (Kind of insane considering the jurisdiction 'state nationality' is supposed to defeat is federal).

Anyhow, I'm a J.D., a fairly reasonable guy, and I'm getting ganged up on by a bunch of "state nationals." I solicit your voices because I think our missions are aligned. Any help on this thread so I am not the lone naysayer on crazy hill would be wonderfully appreciated! Nice to be on this forum, I look forward to participating. --Jeff (on Facebook: Jerks Comics).

https://www.facebook.com/paultrinca/pos ... ment_reply

[GlimDropper]

Howdy, um, Jerk.

A few previous conversations with and or about Mr. Bork

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=6389
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=6380

I have happened across his facebook page a time or two but L.B. is just such a lowest common denominator sort of guru wannabe that's it's hard to maintain much interest. Communist plots are just like so last century and shouldn't we, as a species have grown past the point where we could could buy into a conspiracy theory just because the person selling it is blaming it on "da joooz"?

Good luck if you you want to agitate that hornets nest of ding dongs. The people who follow him genuinely look up to him which should give you a clear idea of their stature.

[Kestrel]

This US Department of State web page may give you some ammunition:

Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship

A. THE IMMIGRATION & NATIONALITY ACT

Section 349(a)(5) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) (8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(5)) is the section of law governing the right of a United States citizen to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship. That section of law provides for the loss of nationality by voluntarily

"(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state , in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State" (emphasis added).

B. ELEMENTS OF RENUNCIATION

A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:
1.appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
2.in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
3.sign an oath of renunciation

Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of Section 349(a)(5), U.S. citizens cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below.

C. REQUIREMENT - RENOUNCE ALL RIGHTS AND PRIVILEGES

A person seeking to renounce U.S. citizenship must renounce all the rights and privileges associated with such citizenships. In the case of Colon v. U.S. Department of State , 2 F.Supp.2d 43 (1998), the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia rejected Colon’s petition for a writ of mandamus directing the Secretary of State to approve a Certificate of Loss of Nationality in the case because he wanted to retain the right to live in the United States while claiming he was not a U.S. citizen.

D. DUAL NATIONALITY / STATELESSNESS

Persons intending to renounce U.S. citizenship should be aware that, unless they already possess a foreign nationality, they may be rendered stateless and, thus, lack the protection of any government. They may also have difficulty traveling as they may not be entitled to a passport from any country. Even if not stateless, former U.S. citizens would still be required to obtain a visa to travel to the United States, or show that they are eligible for admission pursuant to the terms of the Visa Waiver Pilot Program (VWPP). Nonetheless, renunciation of U.S. citizenship may not prevent a foreign country from deporting that individual to the United States in some non-citizen status.

E. TAX & MILITARY OBLIGATIONS /NO ESCAPE FROM PROSECUTION

Persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should be aware of the fact that renunciation of U.S. citizenship may have no affect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information). In addition, the act of renouncing U.S. citizenship does not allow persons to avoid possible prosecution for crimes which they may have committed in the United States, or escape the repayment of financial obligations previously incurred in the United States or incurred as United States citizens abroad.

[JamesVincent]

If you really want to get Bork going ask him about his Wikipedia page (s). The just sit back and watch. (By the way, they're no longer there)

[wserra]

Speaking for myself, I have better things to do than try to convert a gaggle of true believer doofuses. If you want to point out what happens when Bork attempts to engage folks who really do know the law, direct them here. But it won't matter.

I do like the part of that thread where Bork (posting as - ahem - "The Jurist") threatens to report me to the Disciplinary Committee, but realizes that he needs to mow his lawn when I tell him to go ahead and give him the address.

[jerkscomicsjerk]

Thanks for the support. I like this forum from what I've seen, and look forward to hanging around. Yeah, trying to counter Bork, even on a narrow evidentiary issue -- what proof have you? -- has turned into a day-and-a-half ongoing nightmare. Established churches would be envious of this amount of fervor. Probably not of the number of followers, though.

[wserra]

I like this forum from what I've seen, and look forward to hanging around.

Good. Welcome to Quatloos.

[notorial dissent]

I like this forum from what I've seen, and look forward to hanging around.

Yes, indeed, welcome. if nothing else, i think you will find the company much more congenial, and not so prone to making your ears and brain bleed from the intense and overwhelming stupidity as seems to congregate about his Borkness. The true Borkies tend to come with their critical thinking functions either removed of deficient, as the tend to wallow in his every word with out actually checking to find out that his batting record is a flat 0 for all. Borkie is the kind of blowhard windbag who gives blowhard windbags a really bad name, and provides no trace of amusement or entertainment in the process. When you're dumb and boring it really makes it hard to even pay attention to them.

[LPC]

Nice to be on this forum, I look forward to participating.

Welcome. Nice to have a fresh voice here.

Since you're new, I'll point you to a possible resource:

http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#sovereigncitizens

Yes, I'm the author, but don't hold it against me.

I glanced through the comments you pointed to, and they are typical delusional behavior:
Combining unrelated and irrelevant snippets of stuff to create the picture they like, and then rationalizing everything that is inconsistent with their picture. So, for example, contrary court decisions are either wrong on the product of fear or corruption.

The very lack of evidence for their positions become "proof" that they are right, because the government is so afraid of "the truth" getting out that it works extra hard to suppress it.

So there's really no convincing the true believers.

[Famspear]

.....The very lack of evidence for their positions become "proof" that they are right, because the government is so afraid of "the truth" getting out that it works extra hard to suppress it.

So there's really no convincing the true believers.

Which is part of the reason why I think many of us here find that explaining to such Nitwits that we're not put on this Earth to persuade or convince them, and why we find the process of engaging and humiliating such Arrogant, Blowhardian Know-Nothings, to be soooo much fun!