Freedom Ship

[Number Six]

http://www.freedomship.com/

"Envision an ideal place to live or run a business, a friendly, safe and secure community with large areas of open space and extensive entertainment and recreational facilities. Finally, picture this community continually moving around the world. You are beginning to understand the Freedom Ship concept of a massive ocean-going vessel. With a design length of 4,500 feet, a width of 750 feet, and a height of 350 feet, Freedom Ship would be more than 4 times longer than the Queen Mary. The design concepts include a mobile modern city featuring luxurious living, an extensive duty-free international shopping mall, and a full 1.7 million square foot floor set aside for various companies to showcase their products. "

Does this have any chance of coming to fruition or is it just another libertarian pipe dream?

[LaVidaRoja]

While it may be ideal for those who choose to live there and or run their businesses there, what about the deck hands? How many low-level employees would it take to keep that type of paradise operating? Where would they be living? How well would they be paid?

[notorial dissent]

It does present some interesting possibilities????? problems?????

Since it, once/if built, will reportedly be too big to ever enter any current port, it would have to anchor off coast, say outside 12 mile limit????, and shuttle its "inhabitants" back and forth to whatever mainland they were near.

They are positing it as a a self contained environment, and self supporting, which I question the logistics on, but that's another matter for another time.

What I have wondered, given those conditions, whose or what law would prevail on the ship, and how would it be enforced? I can foresee all sorts of interesting complications of someone from one country dieing while at sea, and then trying to decide whose laws applied as to his death.

My feeling from the start has been that it is/was an interesting Libertarianish concept, but that it sounded more like a complicated con than anything else.

[Number Six]

On how workers would be treated/paid, if the recent history of cruise ships is a gauge, the story could be good or bad, supply and demand based on strict libertarian formulas, voluntary servitude would not be off the table? In terms of which laws would operate, they were on record that guns would not be permitted according to one Freedom Ship wannabe, who opted out for that reason and because they were not taking deposits showing some doubt on the part of the organizers.

[Cathulhu]

Wonder what they'd do if they ran into pirates?

[Number Six]

Wonder what they'd do if they ran into pirates?

I'm not sure if this map is written in stone, but they may be able to avoid the high risk parts of the globe: http://www.freedomship.com/freedomship/ ... yage.shtml

Maybe they permit the captain to have a defensive plan in cases like that. Call up the military?

[Burzmali]

Depends on exactly how much of a libertarian paradise it is. If half the guests are armed, and they have a security staff capable of handling a ship half full of drunken armed libertarians, the Freedom ship's offerings may include bouts of pirate hunting rather than the opposite.

[notorial dissent]

I think part of the point is that guns would not be allowed to the inhabitants. As to a security force, that would be problematical based on the economics of the operation. Personally I would think they would become a prime target for some of the better organized and armed pirate operations, unless they were to stay completely away from those waters, and even then.

I still think it sounds more like an extended con of some kind, rather more akin to the great sovrun end of the world community that someone was touting to build up in ID if they ever get the money to actually buy the land they were promoting. I think that one finally died of inertia and lack of funding.

[fortinbras]

Living aboard a ship for years at a time means, among other things, living in a company town, like Kannapolis. The rents will be set by the ship management, so will price of the various supplies sold on the ship. Management might prevent passengers from bringing aboard groceries bought at ports of call or otherwise make life expensive. No real playground for kids, in fact hardly a place you'd want to raise kids, and forget about most pets. You can also forget about fresh milk and veggies for most of the time. And there's no guarantee that any port city will actually make this ship welcome (remember the SS St. Louis -- novelized and filmed as "Ship of Fools" ?). You'd think some of the mechanical/health catastrophes aboard some luxury liners in the last few years would give people reason to pause.

[The Observer]

...remember the SS St. Louis -- novelized and filmed as "Ship of Fools" ?.

Huh? The novel "Ship of Fools" was an allegory about Nazism in Europe and had nothing in else in common with the events surrounding the MS. St. Louis (known as the "Voyage of the Damned") and its Jewish passengers looking to escape persecution in Germany. I am not sure the Jewish passengers aboard the St. Louis would appreciate their experience as being described as a "ship of fools" given their desperation to get away from the impending horror of the Holocaust.

[Number Six]

On what laws would operate on the ship, I got this response from one of the leaders of the enterprise a little while ago:

"Freedom Ship will be governed by the laws under the jurisdiction of the entity under
which it will be registered. It will be governed similar to a land based community with
all its' restrictions and freedoms."

[notorial dissent]

Suitably vague and unenlightening, and not at all comforting to my mind.

[fortinbras]

Yes, sorry, jumbled the two films about ships of Nazi victims in my head. Sorry about that. OK the SS St Louis was the "Voyage of the Damned", couldn't disembark anywhere in the Western Hemisphere or most of Europe .... at the very last minute, as the captain was planning to run the ship aground rather than bring his passengers back to German and to certain death, Holland announced it would take them. And a year or so later Holland was invaded by Germany, so most of the passengers were killed by the Nazis anyway.

[Arthur Rubin]

On what laws would operate on the ship, I got this response from one of the leaders of the enterprise a little while ago:

"Freedom Ship will be governed by the laws under the jurisdiction of the entity under
which it will be registered. It will be governed similar to a land based community with
all its' restrictions and freedoms."

Probably a SeaLand registry.

[Pottapaug1938]

I'm suddenly getting this vision of the Freedom Ship setting sail... and then someone with some old Russian torpedoes and/or mines, and a small boat, shows up and (while remaining out of small-arms range) tells the skipper of the ship that unless the crew allows them to board and ransack the ship, an unfortunate "accident" might blow a hole in the side of the ship.

[texino]

I have done a lot of research on the "Freedom Ship" At one time there was an active online discussion pro and con and Mr. Nixon (the main FS guy) was right there with all the answers. Over time, however, a group of marine engineers held sway by continuing to present rational theories showing the design to be unworkable. At this point, Freedom Ship left the forum, but every couple of years they would put up a teaser on their web page to give the impression things were still on track.

While there were investors, I believe the money was held in escrow and then returned, so I don't think it was a scam. It really seemed to be a grand idea and went to great lengths not to appear
as a Libertarian Sea State. The residents would be liable for taxes collected by their home country and while they may have gained some advantage it was not the reason behind the idea.

The ship was to be built in Belize and would consist of a string of huge barges with the super structure built on top. Funny thing is they might have built it, but for the economy crunching and no suitable drive on hand. Today, however, all the giant cruise ships use multiple diesel electric drive pods that allow the ship to be steered in any direction. Never the less the sheer size of the project seems to throw up new problems on a constant basis. A major problem is speed. I believe 4-5 knts is top speed and with the huge free board presented acting like a sail, a stiff breeze might stop her cold. That's enough for now but should anyone want to continue the discussion, I'll be happy to tell some more I have picked up about Norm Nixons' love boat.

[Cathulhu]

I've been on one sinking ship already, and do not desire to repeat the experience.