Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Open discussion forum about NESARA, Dove of Oneness, Patrick Bellringer, Truth Warrior and all the others spinning the NESARA tale. Includes the latest rumors about the Galacticans comings to Earth and Jennifer's blood ozonation machine.

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Deep Knight
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by Deep Knight »

MacHaffie followed by Gregg wrote:Those Pentagon offices have become politicians, so lying is their game. Just ask a politician, what is your mottle? The exact nature of my mottle is I think between me and my sexual partners and none of YOUR business, thank you!
If you want to keep this private, I suggest you pick more discrete sexual partners. The ones you've been partnering with lately have been writing praises to your mottle on ladies' toilet walls all over the globe. Well, at least most have them have been praising it (when you've had tens of millions of lovers like I have, you learn that some women just can't be satisfied, especially at the rate I have to process 'em). Here's one I found in the women's can at the Hong Kong Airport (don't ask).

There once was an Illuminatus named Gregg
and all of the bad girls would beg
him to unleash his mottle
which he kept it in a bottle
strapped to some politician's leg

OK, I know it stinks, but I didn't have much to work with. If only you were from Nantucket.
"Follow the Money"
Deep Knight
Posts: 5397
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by Deep Knight »

Wednesday, January 1, 2014
Okie and OOM&F Member Chat Wed. Evening

(Note: Please keep checking back...we are adding more Okie as he posts more)

[..okieoilman] I WAS INFORMED TUESDAYTHAT I WOULD RECEIVE 800#'S TODAY-----WELLLLLLLLL=====I'M WAITINGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!

[sherryaj] ..okieoilman don't feel lonely we are waiting with ya

[KettleP] ..okieoilman we are waiting with you

[~KiniBop] We're Watching And Were Waiting... sorry ... couldn't resist! lol

[..okieoilman] I AM AWARE OF 2 PARTICULAR GROUPS CASHING OUT AS I SPEAK---DONT ASK ME HOW---I DON'T KNOW-----

[.gypsymama] ..okieoilman Maybe when they finish it will be our turn.

[spankey] Okieoilman : we were hearing that it was published in the Gazette that the Iraqi dinar was to be international 1/1/14......have not heard if they did or if they are printing a retraction
....Read More Link on Right
[..okieoilman] spankey --YEP--THEY HAD TOO BECAUSE OF BOND ISSUANCE

[nicksfinderskeepers] ..okieoilman have the intel providers not given you the truth or they just do not know when it is going to rv

[..okieoilman] nicksfinderskeepers -TRUTH IS DETERMINED BY OUTCOME. WHAT YOU NEED TO INCLUDE IN YOUR QUESTION IS HOW MANY TIME THINGS HAS CONSTANTALY CHANGED

[ablessing] Okieoilman to you think forming a new group would be advantages. If OOM and TNT and Loechin got together that could be a super group who could really negotiate. What do you think on that?

[..okieoilman] ablessing ---TO NO AVAIL AT THIS TIME

nicksfinderskeepers] ..okieoilman do you think that there will or will not be any more changes and do you thinks it will rv soon, i trust your answers

[..okieoilman] nicksfinderskeepers --PREDICTING A SPECIFIC DATE IS LIKE PREDICTING THE WEATHER ON THE BACK SIDE OF THE MOON IN THE YEAR 2080

[ablessing] Okieoilman it has been reported that there are at least four separate rates to be given on the Dinar. Could you give your thoughts on these reports?

[..okieoilman] I WOULD WELCOME ANYONE WHO HAS CONTACTS OR SOURCES TO UTILIZE THEM AND FIND OUT THEIR OPINION.

[..okieoilman] WAY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT WHEN YOUR SLEEPING I WILL BE ON THE PHONE TO THE MIDDLE EAST--SO----DON'T CALL ME EARLY TOMMOROW WHOEVER HAS MY NUMBER

[2mater] ..okieoilman Are those individuals ( that are exchanging early)allowed to pay off reserves for later exchange? thanks

[..okieoilman] 2mater --BEATS ME

[rich17] ..okieoilman Are the two groups you are aware of in the "privileged" or "elite" catagories....or are they common folks like me?

[..okieoilman] rich17 --NEITHER--JUST PREPOSITIONED

[..okieoilman] I HAVE TAKEN A WAIT AND SEE ATTITUDE AS THE FRUITION ISN'T CONTROLLED BY ME NOR IS ANY CHANGES THAT MAY OR MAY NOT OCCUR.

[kansaschick] ..okieoilman if some are exchanging as we speak is it safe to say we may not be too far away?

[..okieoilman] kansaschick --AN ASSUMPTION I WOULD THINK IS ACCURATE

[longrider] Hello Okie and Happy New year to you, ...have you heard anything about the tariffs being delayed or will they be implimented tomorrow and therefore the RV

[..okieoilman] longrider --IMPLEMENTATION IS ON SCHEDULE

[kybo] wooooooo hooooooo lookout Mrs. Calabash the rv's coming through che che che che

[..okieoilman] kybo --I WOULD BET MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHO MS. CALABASH WAS-----BUT I DO

[Dreamer55] ..okieoilman Will #800 Numbers be just banks or also Groups??

[..okieoilman] Dreamer55 --IT WILL BE A NUMBER FOR YOUR PERSONAL USE TO SET UP APPOINTMENTS

[spankey] Okieoilman : Can they implement tariffs without the dinar being international ?

..okieoilman] spankey --NO WAY

[rich17] ..okieoilman Is it possible though for the dinar to be international at a low rate...like the dong has been international at a low rate for years now. Or is it an absolute the IQN must go up for it all to work?

[..okieoilman] rich17 --YOU FORGET THE DIFFERENCE IN AN ACCEPTED CURRENCY AND AN EXOTIC CURRENCY

MoDream1] ..okieoilman I just want to say, thank you for all your hard work. My husband and I keep you in our prayers daily. I hope this is the year, for all of us! God bless you in 2014- and THANKS!

[..okieoilman] MoDream1 ---MAN OH MAN----KEEP THE PRAYERS GOING---I'M RUNNING OUT OF STEAM FAST

[burchds] ..okieoilman Will there be seperate 800 #'s for the US contract rate and the China contract rate?

[..okieoilman] burchds --A BANK QUESTION

[rich17] ..okieoilman I'm not sure I understand. Which is which? Thanks for teaching us

[..okieoilman] rich17 --DONG ALREADY ACCEPTED AS AN INTERNATIONAL CURRENCY----DINAR ISN'T YET----(KEY WORD--YET)

[moreagles] Okie, we would love to see this done so that the warrior can enjoy. Are they waiting on a certain event or time to cut loose with this thing?

[..okieoilman] moreagles --ANY MOMENT--EXPECT IT ANY TIME NOW

************
[lulu] Okieoilman, is there any possibility that the tarrifs thing and whatever else is going on could be all stopped so that they can stop RV? Thank You So Much

[..okieoilman] lulu --THERE CAN ALWAYS BE CHANGES BUT IT APPEARS THE PROGRESSION STATE IS PAST ANY MORE DELAYS PENDING MURPHY'S LAW NOT INTERVENING

[rich17] ..okieoilman Do you have an opinion as to the US contract rate vs. the China contract rate....which one should we choose?

[..okieoilman] rich17 ---DUMB BUTT----GET THE MONEY----WHOEVER OFFERS THE MOST

[rich17] ..okieoilman Ok...thanks. Sounds like good advice!

[..okieoilman] INCIDENTALY---DUMB BUTT WAS AN EXPRESSION OF LOVE FROM MY MOTHER

[lulu] Okieoilman, Well thats kinda good i guess Is there any point where Murphys Law would NOT prevail?

[..okieoilman] lulu ---YES----WHEN JESUS COMES

[spankey] Okieoilman : just exactly who is in control of the release of the 800#s ... UST ....Banks ....or IMF ?

[..okieoilman] spankey ---IMF CONTACTS UST CONTACTS CORPORATE BANKS CONTACTS SMALLER BANKS---VIOLA--YOUR NEXT!!!

[txnative] ..okieoilman who is supposed to give you the 800#?

[..okieoilman] txnative --THE GOOD TOOTH FAIRY

[.~dinarmama7] Please do not ask questions that would require OKIE to reveal sources. He will not do that.

[bandit] ..okieoilman Do I need to pull a tooth [2mater] ..okieoilman your great sense of humor has not been diluted over the years....thank Heaven!!

[jrmczz] Okie:are you still the one to tell us about the rv

[..okieoilman] jrmczz --I WILL BE ONE OF THEM--THE RESPONSIBILITY I HOPE SOMEONE ELSE TAKES

[brian1] Okie, do you believe that CL has done everything she is suppose to do?

[..okieoilman] brian1 --SHE HAS DONE MORE THAN IS REQUIRED OF THE DIRECTOR OF THE IMF IS SUPPOSED TOO Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE

Posted by John MacHaffie at 7:47 PM 0 comments

Okie is more upbeat than he was earlier.

Wednesday, January 1, 2014
New Year's Okie Thoughts from OOM&F Wed. Evening

[..okieoilman] GREETINGS 2014 AND MAY YOU BE BETTER TO US THAN 2013.

2013 LIED TO US SO MANY TIMES WE WELCOME A NEW YEAR AND PROSPECTIVE OF WHAT WE MAY EXPECT.

WE HOPE YOUR INFORMATION, ETHICS, MORAL'S AND TIMING ARE MORE HONEST AND ACCURATE THAN 2013 WAS.

I THINK I JUST MAY DISPOSE OF MY 2013 CALENDAR AND DISREGARD IT EVER OCCURED.

MAY I SUGGEST 2014 YOU PUT THINGS INTO HONEST PERSPECTIVE TO US AND ENCOURAGE US NOT TO BE SO APPREHENSIVE AND NERVOUS AND ANXIOUS AS WE ALL WERE IN 2013.

MAY I IMPLORE YOU TO BLESS GOD FIRST AND THEN THIS NATION AND THEN OUR FAMILIES AND PUT US ALL IN A POSITION WHERE NEED OR GREED IS REMOVED FROM OUR POLITICIANS AND OUR MINDS.

MAY I REMIND YOU 2014 THAT THE PREVIOUS YEAR BROUGHT ABOUT MANY FEARS AND TEARS THAT WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO EVER GO THROUGH AGAIN.

2014 WE NEED A RESURECTION OF OUR MINDS AND COUNTRY AND ANY SYSTEM WE VALUE AS BEING OF WORTH TO BE TRANSFORMED INTO A POSITIVE, OPTIMISTIC OUTLOOK FOREGOING ANY PAST MEMORIES THAT TROUBLED US.

S0--2014 WE WRAP YOU IN OUR LOVE AND LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR CO-OPERATION FORGING AHEAD WITH OUR DREAMS, HOPES, HEALTH, AND SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS. GOD KNOWS WE NEED IT.---

NOW--2014 WE LAY OUR HOPES AND DREAMS AT YOUR DOORSTEP.--------

BLESSINGS GALORE------1-1-2014 ---5.19PM CST

Posted by John MacHaffie at 6:55 PM 0 comments

WHAT!! Okie's sources have been LYING to him!?!? I thought he was 100% accurate except for the dates!!!
"Follow the Money"
AndyK
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by AndyK »

Okie seems to be working with an RV version of the Magic Eight Ball: Just shake it and wait for a random answer to pop up in the little window.
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ashlynne39
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by ashlynne39 »

What is TNT Tony's forum website link. I couldn't find it.

So what do you think happens when months pass and no rv for the peons after Tony and Okie have spent weeks now telling their followers that some people have been allowed to cash out. How are they going to get around this one? Have they ever gone this far and told their followers that some people have been allowed to cash out?
LightinDarkness
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by LightinDarkness »

TNTTony's website is: http://www.tntdinar.com/tnt-forum.html. However, you won't be able to register for the forum - they have shut down registration because to many people were asking "hard questions" like pulling up where Tony promised the RV from dinar recaps 2 and 3 years ago.

My understanding regarding Tony's pumping tactics is that he actually has regular variations on this "the elites have cashed out!" lie. Before the most recent incarnation of this myth, he had told his followers that the "elites" were flying into Reno and cashing out on the tarmac at the airport. He uses this lie to deflect his followers from asking why his sources are so wrong when he feels like the amount of people questioning him has reached a critical mass. By releasing the "elites have cashed out!" lie all the TNT followers get high off the hopium that they are next and then when the RV never comes for them they spend time venting about how evil the elites are and how they should go to jail. Then, to come full circle, Tony always tells them that those who had cashed out have been arrested/had to give back their money/etc. Rinse/repeat again in a few months.
LightinDarkness
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by LightinDarkness »

One of the most interesting pieces of mythology that TNTTony has created about the RV is that dinarians will be required to sign non-disclosure agreements when they "cash out" their millions. Tony invented this myth, I think, because too many people were asking him how - if the RV were to occur at his promised $36/dinar - that the country would not collapse when other non-dinarians found out and rioted. Tony has spent A LOT of time creating a very intricate NDA myth, and recently one of his forum members who claims to be an attorney wrote the following about the NDAs. Keep in mind, THE ENTIRE CONCEPT OF THE RV AND NDAS IS 100% MADE UP TO BEGIN WITH:
For your Information:

There has been so much consternation and anxiety over the Non-Disclosure Agreement and anxiety over the tier system with the banks. I know Tony did not feel good on Friday and struggled with his symptoms on the call. However, I listened and read the transcript – it was full of disclosures purposely dropped by Tony.

I am going to try and pull back the curtain so you can better understand there is nothing sinister going on with the NDA and nothing constraining on how they have determined to assign banks (tiers) is the terminology used.

There has been so many bad things said about the government that people are thinking the worst and I am going to go out on a limb here and say they the US Government has no intention of “sticking it to you” on the contrary they want this to be a safe and orderly transaction for you and they are trying to protect you and the country.
....
Read More Link on Right

So change your mindset because there is nothing sinister afoot – there are no conspiracies to put you in a trap. Tony even disclosed yesterday on his call what he said the banks were not going to tell you until you got in there – go back and read the entire transcript. It is all there.

(Dinar Recaps Note: Sorry, we do not have this to post.)

Non-Disclosure Agreement (“NDA”)

You have to understand something about legal documents. Several pages are taken up just to define words. I have sometimes used 2 or 3 pages myself to define terms so the reader understands the terminology used in the document and if you are ever in a court of law the court knows the legal definitions and obligations of each party.

Additionally, Tony said the 20 pages was one of the first NDA’s drafted and there will be possibly 13 different NDAs I doubt it is 20 pages long because they now have been made more specific to apply to different jurisdictions throughout the United States and its territories.

There are not going to be hidden traps or “Gotcha” clauses in it. Courts would not uphold language forced upon a signer under duress to sign a document that had traps in it.

I am telling you they will not do it. Some of the language will be boiler plate language applicable to all 50 states and territories and some specific as to your part of the country.

If you live in Louisiana you live under the Civil Code the document will be specifically applicable to you, if you live Puerto Rico yours will be different because you live in a territory of the United States, if you live in Georgia, Virginia, New York, California, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, etc., you have laws that are unique to contracting in your various states.

As I said some language will be similar but others not because some states are community property states, some states are strict common law states. As Tony said as long as you are not going to be engaging in any criminal activity so you do not have to worry.

You have to remember you are signing a “contract” not to disclose and contracts are governed by state law. There is no federal law for contracts. The Department of Homeland Security is stepping into the various states and making itself a party to an agreement signed in your local jurisdiction.

It along with you are then parties to the agreement governed by the state laws. So that is why there are so many versions. Many are having convulsions over does my attorney, my CPA, my sanitation man, my dog catcher need to sign as well?

Again the language is broad enough to include or exclude them and this is the important part -- only you and the Department of Homeland Security are parties to this agreement. Your lawyer your CPA they all come under privilege do not insult your professional advisers they know what their duties and obligations are. Do not sweat this.

How many of you ever been in a hospital and signed the forms – Do you understand everything you signed? How about getting a credit card – do you read all the disclosure information and understand it? Or ever purchased a mutual fund or stock and read the disclosure on it? Ever purchased a house and read through the entire mortgage agreement and loan agreement? We all do this every day – do not freak out over this.

Remember lawyers write agreements, contracts, obligations, wills, trusts etc., with one thing in mind. That being to protect against all possible scenarios and to guard against the worst. There is another saying, “When in doubt spell it out” So that is what they have done. You will be fine.

Bank Tiers. Tony has hinted at this time and time again. This last time he was purposely clear. He said when you call the 800 number and share your basic information what will determine where you are sent is the amount of Dinar/Dong you have.

They will forward your information to the bank and the bank will have documents already filled out and ready to go – remember you will have a 20 to 30 minute appointment. The bank chosen for you will be equipped to handle the amount you have and provide you the best services.

Your question is or should be: Am I obliged to stay there? And my answer to you is that you will not be required to stay there. However you may like where you are directed after you have had a chance to meet with their Wealth Advisers.

The government cannot put restraints on “trade” that is the legal phrase in other words restrict where you do business. If you desire after your exchange to move to another bank you can. However I would suggest that you go to the bank you desire to do business with after the exchange --- go meet with the bank and work with them so they can coordinate a smooth transfer of monies to the bank of your choice.

And you need to let them do it -- not you. You put them in-charge and let them handle everything so it is done right and not in a haphazard fashion…they are the experts.

I hope this helps everyone

Best as always I am and remain,

Most respectfully,

Mother, Esq.( Attorney, Asset Protection Specialist, Securities Attorney, Estate Planner, Trouble Shooter, International Consulting, Presidential historian)
I don't doubt there are TNTTony followers who are dumb enough to believe anything they are told, thats why they keep listening to Tony because he tells them what they want to hear, but this is hilarious. All of this from an "attorney" on a RV that isn't actually going to ever happen involving a NDA which doesn't actually exist. By the way, since we have attorneys here - do real attorneys EVER put Esquire after their name?
ashlynne39
Illuminated Legate of Illustrious Legs
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 5:27 am

Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by ashlynne39 »

LightinDarkness wrote:One of the most interesting pieces of mythology that TNTTony has created about the RV is that dinarians will be required to sign non-disclosure agreements when they "cash out" their millions. Tony invented this myth, I think, because too many people were asking him how - if the RV were to occur at his promised $36/dinar - that the country would not collapse when other non-dinarians found out and rioted. Tony has spent A LOT of time creating a very intricate NDA myth, and recently one of his forum members who claims to be an attorney wrote the following about the NDAs. Keep in mind, THE ENTIRE CONCEPT OF THE RV AND NDAS IS 100% MADE UP TO BEGIN WITH:
For your Information:

There has been so much consternation and anxiety over the Non-Disclosure Agreement and anxiety over the tier system with the banks. I know Tony did not feel good on Friday and struggled with his symptoms on the call. However, I listened and read the transcript – it was full of disclosures purposely dropped by Tony.

I am going to try and pull back the curtain so you can better understand there is nothing sinister going on with the NDA and nothing constraining on how they have determined to assign banks (tiers) is the terminology used.

There has been so many bad things said about the government that people are thinking the worst and I am going to go out on a limb here and say they the US Government has no intention of “sticking it to you” on the contrary they want this to be a safe and orderly transaction for you and they are trying to protect you and the country.
....
Read More Link on Right

So change your mindset because there is nothing sinister afoot – there are no conspiracies to put you in a trap. Tony even disclosed yesterday on his call what he said the banks were not going to tell you until you got in there – go back and read the entire transcript. It is all there.

(Dinar Recaps Note: Sorry, we do not have this to post.)

Non-Disclosure Agreement (“NDA”)

You have to understand something about legal documents. Several pages are taken up just to define words. I have sometimes used 2 or 3 pages myself to define terms so the reader understands the terminology used in the document and if you are ever in a court of law the court knows the legal definitions and obligations of each party.

Additionally, Tony said the 20 pages was one of the first NDA’s drafted and there will be possibly 13 different NDAs I doubt it is 20 pages long because they now have been made more specific to apply to different jurisdictions throughout the United States and its territories.

There are not going to be hidden traps or “Gotcha” clauses in it. Courts would not uphold language forced upon a signer under duress to sign a document that had traps in it.

I am telling you they will not do it. Some of the language will be boiler plate language applicable to all 50 states and territories and some specific as to your part of the country.

If you live in Louisiana you live under the Civil Code the document will be specifically applicable to you, if you live Puerto Rico yours will be different because you live in a territory of the United States, if you live in Georgia, Virginia, New York, California, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, etc., you have laws that are unique to contracting in your various states.

As I said some language will be similar but others not because some states are community property states, some states are strict common law states. As Tony said as long as you are not going to be engaging in any criminal activity so you do not have to worry.

You have to remember you are signing a “contract” not to disclose and contracts are governed by state law. There is no federal law for contracts. The Department of Homeland Security is stepping into the various states and making itself a party to an agreement signed in your local jurisdiction.

It along with you are then parties to the agreement governed by the state laws. So that is why there are so many versions. Many are having convulsions over does my attorney, my CPA, my sanitation man, my dog catcher need to sign as well?

Again the language is broad enough to include or exclude them and this is the important part -- only you and the Department of Homeland Security are parties to this agreement. Your lawyer your CPA they all come under privilege do not insult your professional advisers they know what their duties and obligations are. Do not sweat this.

How many of you ever been in a hospital and signed the forms – Do you understand everything you signed? How about getting a credit card – do you read all the disclosure information and understand it? Or ever purchased a mutual fund or stock and read the disclosure on it? Ever purchased a house and read through the entire mortgage agreement and loan agreement? We all do this every day – do not freak out over this.

Remember lawyers write agreements, contracts, obligations, wills, trusts etc., with one thing in mind. That being to protect against all possible scenarios and to guard against the worst. There is another saying, “When in doubt spell it out” So that is what they have done. You will be fine.

Bank Tiers. Tony has hinted at this time and time again. This last time he was purposely clear. He said when you call the 800 number and share your basic information what will determine where you are sent is the amount of Dinar/Dong you have.

They will forward your information to the bank and the bank will have documents already filled out and ready to go – remember you will have a 20 to 30 minute appointment. The bank chosen for you will be equipped to handle the amount you have and provide you the best services.

Your question is or should be: Am I obliged to stay there? And my answer to you is that you will not be required to stay there. However you may like where you are directed after you have had a chance to meet with their Wealth Advisers.

The government cannot put restraints on “trade” that is the legal phrase in other words restrict where you do business. If you desire after your exchange to move to another bank you can. However I would suggest that you go to the bank you desire to do business with after the exchange --- go meet with the bank and work with them so they can coordinate a smooth transfer of monies to the bank of your choice.

And you need to let them do it -- not you. You put them in-charge and let them handle everything so it is done right and not in a haphazard fashion…they are the experts.

I hope this helps everyone

Best as always I am and remain,

Most respectfully,

Mother, Esq.( Attorney, Asset Protection Specialist, Securities Attorney, Estate Planner, Trouble Shooter, International Consulting, Presidential historian)
I don't doubt there are TNTTony followers who are dumb enough to believe anything they are told, thats why they keep listening to Tony because he tells them what they want to hear, but this is hilarious. All of this from an "attorney" on a RV that isn't actually going to ever happen involving a NDA which doesn't actually exist. By the way, since we have attorneys here - do real attorneys EVER put Esquire after their name?
Some attorneys do put Esquire after their name. I actually see it from maybe 25 percent of the attorneys I deal with. I don't know if it is done more in certain regions of the US but in Texas I don't think it is typical. Personally, I've always found it a bit pretentious and refuse to do it but again, that could be because it is the exception rather than the rule as far as I've seen in Texas.
fortinbras
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by fortinbras »

This part of the DinarRV story sounds a lot like the scam run 20 years ago by Roy E. Schwasinger of Colorado. Under the organizational name of "We The People" {not to be confused with the scam organization headed by Bob Schulz}, Schwasinger - a retired meat-packer who claimed to be a General under a super-secret contract with the Congress, or only those Members who were not tainted by being lawyers - went around the farm states telling people that there had been this super-secret US Supreme Court decision that the Federal Reserve System was illegal and that anyone who had ever been persuaded to accept Federal Reserve Notes as payment for anything was entitled to huge damages payable in silver, which was being stored in a super-secret location in Canada and would shortly be paid out to everyone who was registered as a member of the class action that had resulted in the Supreme Court decision. And for a mere $300 registration fee, paid in cash (FRNs!) to Schwasinger, anyone could be named as a member of the class action ($300 X each family member).

viewtopic.php?t=7530#p125764

Schwasinger and his accomplices managed to separate a lot of desperate farmers from their money. And then the State of Colorado awarded him 9 years of free room and board. And in 2009 he died in obscurity.
Burnaby49
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by Burnaby49 »

And we kept the silver.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
notorial dissent
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by notorial dissent »

Schwasinger and his cohorts were for the most part a thoroughly nasty bunch that I always thought looked and acted like biker wannabees, and from all reports weren't as nice as some of them. That they quite willingly and intentionally took such vile and vicious advantage of people who were at their wits end and were really in over their heads just speaks to the type of character he possessed, or really the lack there of, and to a degree the character of those he attracted as his lieutenants. His followers were mostly the deluded and desperate, although there were more than a few opportunists in the mix.

In my opinion, he, and they, didn't get anywhere near what they deserved.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
texino
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by texino »

That old Dove of Oneness was a big fan of the Sausage General. Actually The DOO was pretty high on all the Brass and Special Ops folks who hustled both Houses of Congress down to the Capitol in the wee hours to pass that NESARA Bill. They got The President to sign it too, they just could not get the thing announced. It's always something that leaves little doubt that our country
is just plain eat up with the dumb ass and has no trouble stocking up on wolf tickets when a simple savings account could build a decent down payment on your heart's desire in short order.
Happy New Year to all of you from all of me.
ҨTexino₪
Siga el dinero
El camino continúa por siempre, pero el partido nunca termina
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by Deep Knight »

Yep, Dove rated General Schwasinger mighty high, here is the story she told as copied, er, summarized by Nancy Detweiler, M.Ed., M.Div. in 2011.

1970s – The Federal Land Bank illegally foreclosed on farmers mortgages all throughout the Midwest. In each of these cases the farmers were defrauded by the banks with the approval of the Federal Reserve System. These court cases would eventually become known as the Farmer Claims Program.

1978 – An elderly ranch farmer in Colorado purchased a farm with loan from the Federal Land Bank. After he died the property was passed on to his son Roy Schwasinger, Jr., who was a retired military general. Soon after a Federal Land Bank officer and Federal Marshall appeared on his property and informed him the bank was foreclosing on his farm, ordering him to vacate within 30 days. Without his knowledge, his deceased father had signed a stipulation which reverted the property back to the Federal Land Bank in the event of the borrower’s death. Outraged, Roy E. Schwasinger, Jr. filed a class action lawsuit in the Denver Federal Court system. The suit was dismissed on the basis of incorrect filing. This prompted Roy Schwasinger’s investigation into the inner workings of the banking system.

1982 – Roy Schwasinger was given a contract by the US senate and later Supreme Court to investigate banking fraud. But because he was under a strict non-disclosure order he was not allowed to tell the media what he discovered. In the late 80s he began sharing his knowledge with others including high ranking military personnel who helped him bring about a class action lawsuit against the federal government. The first series of these lawsuits began in the mid 1980’s when William and Shirley Baskerville of Fort Collins, Colorado were involved in a bankruptcy case with First Interstate Bank of Fort Collins; who was trying to foreclose on their farm. At a restaurant their lawyer informed them that he would no longer be able to help them and walked-off. Overhearing the conversation Roy Schwasinger offered his advice on how to appeal the case in bankruptcy court. So in 1987 they filed an appeal (Case No. 87-C-716) with the United States District Court in Colorado.

1988 – On November 3, 1988, the Denver Federal Court system ruled that indeed the banks had defrauded the Baskervilles and proceeded to reverse its bankruptcy decision. But when the foreclosed property was not returned they filed a new lawsuit. Eventually, 23 other farmers, ranchers, and Indians swindled by the banks in the same manner would join in the case. In these cases, the banks were foreclosing on the properties using fraudulent methods such as charging exorbitant interest, illegal foreclosure, or by not crediting mortgage payments to their account as they should have but instead would steal the mortgage payments for themselves triggering foreclosure on the property. After running out of money they continued their fight without the help of lawyers. With some assistance by the Farmers Union a new lawsuit was filed against the Federal Land Bank and the Farmers Credit System. Case No. 92-C-1781 The District Court ruled in their favor and ordered the banks to return the stolen properties with help from either Federal Marshals or the National Guard. But when no payments were made, the farmers declared involuntary Chapter Seven Bankruptcy against the Federal Land Bank and the Farmers Credit System. The banks appealed their case insisting they were not a business but a federal agency therefore they were not liable to pay the damages. So the farmer’s legal team adopted a new strategy. According to the Federal Land Bank’s 1933 charter they are not allowed to make loans directly to applicants, but instead could only back loans as a guarantor in case of default. Because the Federal Land Bank had violated this rule the farmer’s legal team was able to successfully sue the bank for damages. Word of the lawsuit began to spread; the legal team would teach others how to fight foreclosure and to help them file lawsuits as well (Case No. 93-1308-M). Celebrities such as Willie Nelson joined in the cause and helped raise money during his “Farm Aid” concerts. The Baskerville case had now become the Farmer Claims Class Action Lawsuit. Worried about the legal ramifications the government retaliated against the farmers by hitting them with either outrageous IRS fees, or by imprisoning the legal team under frivolous nonrelated charges. When the farmers realized they were being unfairly targeted, they had military generals such as General Roy Schwasinger sit in the courtroom to make sure the bribed judges would vote according to constitutional law.

The farmers now with a large team of knowledgeable people of the law behind them filed a new case to claim additional damages from the fraudulent loaning activities of the Farmers Credit System. The government tried to settle but they had already lost many cases and were now loosing the appeals as well. More and more evidence was collected. According to the National Banking Act all banks are required to register their charters with the Federal and State Bureau of Records, but none of the banks complied, allowing the legal team to sue the Farmers Credit System. Not only was Farmers Credit System not chartered to do business with the American Banking Association, but so were other quasi government organizations such as the Federal Housing Administration, The Department of Housing and Urban Development, and even the Federal Reserve Bank. The Farmers Claims lawsuit was thrown out of court at each level with the records purposely destroyed

1990s – In the early 1990’s Roy Schwasinger brought the case before the United States Supreme Court. Some of the content of this case is sealed from public eyes but most of it can be viewed today. The U.S. Supreme Court Justices ruled that the Farmers Union claims were indeed valid, therefore, all property foreclosed by the Farmers Credit System was illegal and all those who were foreclosed on would have to receive damages. In addition, they ruled that the U.S. federal government and banks had defrauded the farmers, and all U.S. citizens, out of vast sums of money and property. Furthermore, the court ruled the shocking truth that the IRS was a Puerto Rican Trust and in addition the court ruled that the Federal Reserve was unlawful, that the income tax amendment was only ratified by four states and therefore was not a legal amendment, that the IRS code was not enacted into “Positive Law” within the Code of Federal Regulations. Positive Law = Laws that have been enacted by a properly instituted and recognized branch of the government.

When the case was brought before the U.S. Supreme Court, they ruled in his favor, giving the Army General title over the United States, Inc. Legal action was then passed on to the Senate Finance Committee and Senator Sam Nunn, who was working with Roy Schwasinger.

1991 – … To collect damages the farmers legal team used an obscure attachment to the 14th amendment which most people are not aware of. After the civil war the government allowed citizens to claim a payment on anyone who suffered damages as a result of the Federal Government failing to protect its citizens from harm or damages by a foreign government. President Grant had this attachment sealed from public eyes but somehow, someone on the farmer’s legal team got a hold of it. If you read that carefully, it specifies damages by a foreign government. That foreign government is the corporate federal government which has been masquerading to the public as the constitutional government. … When the legal team finally settled on a figure, each individual would receive an average of $20 million dollars payout per claim. Multiplied by a total of 336,000 claims that were filed against the U.S. Federal Government, the total payout would come out to a staggering $6.6 trillion dollars. The U.S. Supreme Court placed a gag order on the case, struck all information from the Federal Registry, and placed all records in the Supreme Court files. Up to that point Senator Sam Nunn had kept the Baskerville Case records within his office. A settlement was agreed to out of court and the decision was sealed by Janet Reno. Because the case was sealed, claimants are not allowed to share court documents to media outlets without violating the settlement, but they can still tell others about the lawsuit. This is why you probably have not heard about this.

1991 – Roy Schwasinger went before a senate committee to present evidence of the banks and governments criminal activity. He informed them how the Corporation of the United States was tied to the establishment of a New World Order which would bring about a fascist one world government ruled by the international bankers.

1994 – But the Clinton government undermined their efforts by requiring the farm claims to use a specific form designed by the government. This form imposed an administrative fee of $300 for each claim, which was later used in 1994 as a basis to arrest the leaders of the legal team including Roy Schwasinger.
"Follow the Money"
Burnaby49
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by Burnaby49 »

I was such a big fan of dove that I archived almost all of her daily reports. Here, verbatim, is the August 28, 2005 report where she discusses General Schwasinger and NESARA. If nothing else it gives those of you not familiar with Dove (the woman who single-handedly created the whole NESARA mythology) an idea of her how she communicated with her acolytes. I always admired the complete self-confidence she displayed while spewing out whoppers like this;
I guarantee you this military coup will NOT occur. Those who are
trying to do this military coup are well aware that I oppose them. I
have purposely reached out to some of the military leaders they are
trying to recruit for their coup effort and have presented the facts
that NESARA is the BEST and also the only LAWFUL, ORDERLY, and
PEACEFUL solution to reforming our government, banking, and legal
systems.

I have been successful in breaking the gag order on NESARA with over
200 very important leaders in the US. I have received feedback from
some of these leaders that they do support NESARA and will do their
part when the time comes for them to take action.


NESARA Reforms Government, Banking, Legal; NESARA Meeting
8/25/05
August 28, 2005 8:23 p.m. PDT


Hello Dear Friends and White Knights,

My intelligence sources state the people trying to do a military coup
in the US are trying to keep the Bush government off balance through
various non-combative actions. My sources state the military coup
leaders are currently planning to try to spring their coup on November
1, 2005. Apparently, the coup leaders plan to use the voting fraud
issues of the last federal election (a year ago on November 2, 2004)
as part of their justification for doing the coup. Perhaps exposing
the planned November 1, 2005 date will influence some people to decide
NOT to support this unlawful coup effort.

I guarantee you this military coup will NOT occur. Those who are
trying to do this military coup are well aware that I oppose them. I
have purposely reached out to some of the military leaders they are
trying to recruit for their coup effort and have presented the facts
that NESARA is the BEST and also the only LAWFUL, ORDERLY, and
PEACEFUL solution to reforming our government, banking, and legal
systems.

I have been successful in breaking the gag order on NESARA with over
200 very important leaders in the US. I have received feedback from
some of these leaders that they do support NESARA and will do their
part when the time comes for them to take action.

We are successfully handling the things needed to resolve certain
issues and bring NESARA to announcement. We are making progress in
the actions needed for NESARA. NESARA is the ANSWER –– not a military
coup and certainly not the continuation of the Bush government.

For the last 70 years and more, there have been numerous
behind-the-scenes efforts to put America back on course; these efforts
include the Farmers’ Cases and Farm Claims processes. In watching
video tapes from Farm Claims community meetings held in the US in 1993
and 1994, I have learned much about the processes related to the Farm
Claims in the early 1990’s efforts to establish a US Treasury Bank
System, to end the Federal Reserve System, to shut down the Internal
Revenue Service (IRS) and end income taxes, to reform our legal
system, and to restore Constitutional Law.

In the most recent video tape I watched of a meeting on October 15,
1993, the speakers discussed the fact that retired US military
General Roy Schwasinger was a key leader of the American Farmers’
Cases against the banks and others for the fraud perpetrated by the
Federal Reserve system. General Schwasinger was involved in
researching, drafting, and filing many of the Farmers’ Cases. They
also stated there were video tapes of the meetings Roy Schwasinger
held telling people about the history of the banks’ fraud and the Farm
Claims process. If any of you have copies of video tapes where Roy
Schwasinger is discussing the government, banking, and legal frauds
and the Farmers’ Cases and Farm Claims, please send an email to me at
dove@nesara.us with the Subject of “Video Tapes” and your first name
and telephone number so I may contact you to discuss borrowing your
video tapes.

The speakers on the October 15, 1993 video also stated that in
November 1992, Roy Schwasinger wanted to go on television and tell the
American public about the Federal Reserve frauds and the fact that the
US Treasury was going to buy the gold back and take over the banking
system from the Federal Reserve. The US Treasury did buy the gold
back from the Federal Reserve for $1.4 Billion on November 30, 1992
and this also eliminated the national debt owed to the Federal
Reserve. The Federal Reserve was supposed to be phased out, and in
fact, the Chicago Federal Reserve did begin shutting down. However,
per the speakers on the video and confirmed by my intelligence
sources, the US Supreme Court put a gag order on General Schwasinger
and forbid him to discuss the Federal Reserve’s frauds in the media;
the Court told General Schwasinger he could only hold community
meetings to discuss these things. The Court also put a gag order on
the media to keep them from discussing the Fed’s frauds and the
ensuing Farm Claims against the banks and the government for the
damages done by the Federal Reserve.

Although the claims process was mentioned once or twice in mainstream
media, there were more media smear campaigns against those who were
doing the Farm Claims meetings and General Schwasinger. The
government and the big bankers of the Federal Reserve system did not
want Americans knowing the truth. There was even a disinformation
website set up on the internet in which General Schwasinger is called
a “meat cutter”. In fact, that’s a total lie. General Schwasinger
spent years involved with farm equipment and irrigation systems and
his military career; he at NO TIME was a “meat cutter”. By the way,
there is comprehensive protection being given to General Schwasinger;
he is receiving the same protection I am receiving and yes, he is
alive and fairly well.

Another video tape of a meeting held by Farm Claims supporters in
Alfalfa County, Oklahoma, on December 11, 1994 discussed WHY there was
support from the US military for the Farm Claims process. It also
discussed that the US Supreme Court had sent orders to all banks in
the USA requiring the banks to change their contracts with the US
Treasury Department to become a Treasury Bank as the Treasury Bank
System was supposed to take over from the unlawful Federal Reserve and
the Federal Reserve was supposed to be phased out. I have confirmed
that the US Supreme Court did send orders to the banks telling them
they had to make this change and restructure all loans per new
guidelines by late October 1994 or stop all collection of bank debts.
However, the Federal Reserve sent out counter-notices telling the
banks to ignore the US Supreme Court; the majority of the banks did
ignore the Court’s orders and NO ONE enforced the Court’s orders.

Darrell Freck and Dennis Smith of the Farm Claims movement were the
main speakers on the video done on December 11, 1994 in Alfalfa
County, Oklahoma. They stated that because the bankers had ignored
the Court’s orders, there were plans for various states’ National
Guard units to go to the banks and require compliance by the bankers
with the Court’s orders. However, there were people pretending to
help the Farm Claims process who were actually working against it from
the inside; these insiders managed to stall and dilute all efforts to
correct the banking system and restore Constitutional Law.

Interestingly, one high level military officer mentioned by name on
the December 11, 1994 video tape, who was at that time trusted by
General Roy Schwasinger and others of the Farm Claims movement, later
proved he was not to be trusted and betrayed the Farm Claims process
by causing delays. Now this same man is leading the current, failing
military coup efforts.

For years I had heard from some of the people on our telephone network
that “the military” were going to help NESARA be announced. Now I
realize much of this came from what happened in the 1990’s with the
Farm Claims process. During the October 15, 1993 Farm Claims video,
it was stated that in August 1992, there was a meeting of 35 very high
level US military officers in Omaha, Nebraska, to discuss how to get
the US back to Constitutional Law and fix the banking system. Out of
this meeting came the decision to recall 300 retired US military
officers to service. The 300 military officers were given the task of
developing the overall plan for bringing the US back to Constitutional
Law and reforming the US banking and legal systems. The 300 military
officers did develop the plans for carrying out the reforms but
unfortunately, all the plans were blocked.

If you know any of the retired US military officers who were involved
in these efforts in the 1990s and are still supporting the restoration
of Constitutional Law and the reforms of the banking and legal
systems, I would like to talk with you. Please send me an email at
dove@nesara.us with the Subject of “300 military” and include your
first name, your telephone number, and the best times to reach you.
Perhaps some of these retired military who wanted to help America in
the 1990s may be able to help with certain behind-the-scenes actions
for NESARA. NESARA is the culmination of efforts by many good people
in the last 70+ years.

When NESARA is announced, it will accomplish many long overdue reforms
of our American government, legal, and banking systems. For those of
you new to NESARA, the major provisions of NESARA - the National
Economic Security And Reformation Act (passed in March 2000 and under
gag order until announced) include the following:

1. Restores Constitutional Law in the US as the forefathers intended
when they signed the Declaration of Independence.
2. Requires the current US administration to resign their positions to
allow a fresh start at the national level and installs
Constitutionally acceptable NESARA President and Vice President
Designates until new elections can take place within 120 days.
3. NESARA US President Designate declares “peace” due to NESARA’s
abolishing all unconstitutional “national states of emergency”. All
US military aggressive actions will cease immediately.
4. Zeroing out credit card balances, forgiveness of mortgages and
other bank debt as a remedy for 70 years of bank and government fraud.
5. Initiates the US Treasury Bank System with new U.S. Treasury
currency backed by precious metals. Bank personnel have already been
trained on NESARA and the new currency is already in some bank vaults.
6. Abolishes Income Taxes in US and creates a new national sales tax
on new non-essential items as revenue for government.

(See the History section of http://www.NESARA.US for more information:
http://www.nesara.us/pages/history.html )
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
LightinDarkness
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by LightinDarkness »

I've been wondering how TNTTony was going to walk back his lie that lots of random countries had RVed - he had claimed starting about a week and a half ago that places like Hong Kong, Australia, Jordan, Dubai, etc. had undergone the mythical RV and people were cashing out at $3.44/dinar. This caused his followers to start booking plane trips to international destinations to cash out, only to be told by TNTTony that they wouldn't be allowed to cash out because you had to be a citizen of the country to get your millions.

The problem, of course, is that some dinarians actually know people in these countries and - SURPRISE - the banks all think they are crazy and tell them there is no RV. So how does Tony fix this lie? Well, today, he had "DC Guy" (who I suspect is just a fellow pumper that he uses to make it look like hes got real insider information), who claims to be in the federal government and have all the inside information on the mythical RV, explain it all away. You see while all those countries RVed and people cashed out, DC Guy explained that the "bank screens" kept randomly going to "administrative hold" and barring bank personnel from cashing people out at random times. So when people went to these banks and they were told they were nuts, it was because the Powers That Be had put a mysterious "administrative hold" on the cash out process! And then as of last week, all the countries got together and decided there was to much random cashing out happening so they all stopped the bank screens from showing the RV for now.

I am NOT kidding you, this is the exact BS reason that was given. It doesn't even make any sense...even at a surface level...of course were dealing with people who believe in a RV, so maybe that is unsurprising that they would take this excuse as the truth.
LightinDarkness
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by LightinDarkness »

Denial, not just a river in Egypt for TNTTony forum posters. Heres a good one:
The other day I went into Arvest Bank to get some money from my account. When BoA pulled out of our state, Arvest took over its accounts. About three years ago, I had an account at BoA and had talked with the Vice President about cashing in my dinar when Iraq revalued. He had poo-poo'd the RV then. This same Vice President now works for Arvest; he was in the lobby when I went to withdraw. He immediately went to the office adjacent to the teller's station, closing the door behind him. When the teller completed my withdrawal slip, she excused herself and went to this office, saying she would be right back. She returned, gave me the money, and I told her to have a great day. I turned around to leave, and there was the VP in my path, telling me to have a great day. I think he probably wanted to get my name so he could call me when we get our R/V, as Arvest is probably a sister bank to BoA. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Option 1: The Bank VP has no idea who you are. Three years ago you were just another dinar RV crazy person, who he quickly forgot once you were gone. The bank manager randomly greets bank customers like every other bank manager does in retail banking, and you just happened to be there when he was doing this today.

Option 2: The Bank VP remembers you from 3 years ago, but now knows the RV is real, and is hoping to make an impression so that you'll give his bank your millions.

I WONDER WHICH OPTION IS MORE LIKELY?
Deep Knight
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by Deep Knight »

Even though it's rather dated (he was alive when it was written), I prefer the Southern Poverty Law Center version of the story.

Licensed to Kill
Roy Schwasinger, 67

Perhaps more than any other figure of the 1990s, former Nebraska meatpacker Roy Schwasinger is responsible for the proliferation of get-rich-quick schemes that used the antigovernment rhetoric of the Patriot movement.

After starting We the People in 1993, Schwasinger claimed that he had won a class action suit against the government alleging that the country had gone bankrupt in 1933 — a suit that meant most Americans were now eligible for tax-free settlements of more than $20 million apiece (conveniently, he said, Delta Force commandos had brought back $600 trillion from overseas banks).

There was only one catch — Schwasinger needed a $300 fee in order to file a claim. Along with others, Schwasinger victimized at least 6,832 people; Schwasinger's personal take, officials said, was more than $300,000.

At a 1992 seminar, Schwasinger taught LeRoy Schweitzer of the Montana Freemen how to create fake financial instruments — a skill that Schweitzer then passed on to hundreds.

Schwasinger was also a conspiracy fabulist. In one videotape, according to research on the Militia Watchdog Web site, he announced that he and We the People "have a license to kill," and in fact had recently executed 170 judges and lawyers at a secret base.

In another tape, the group said a gold molecule had been developed that could make steel beams levitate — a molecule used by Christ to heal the sick.

Schwasinger today is serving lengthy federal and state prison terms in connection with his scams.
"Follow the Money"
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Pottapaug1938
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by Pottapaug1938 »

Perhaps it's because I rarely read NESARAite gibberish carefully; but I just got a good laugh of the assertion that NESARA "[r]estores Constitutional Law in the US as the forefathers intended when they signed the Declaration of Independence."

Gee. The Declaration was signed in 1776; and to govern the new country the forefathers wrote and enacted... the Articles of Confederation. The U.S. Constitution didn't follow until 11 years later. But then, why should I be surprised? It's not like NESARAites have more than a Classic Comics style familiarity with our country's founding documents....
Last edited by Pottapaug1938 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture." -- Pastor Ray Mummert, Dover, PA, during an attempt to introduce creationism -- er, "intelligent design", into the Dover Public Schools
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by LaVidaRoja »

Or reality....
Little boys who tell lies grow up to be weathermen.
notorial dissent
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by notorial dissent »

Well, just goes to further show the vast NESARAite knowledge base and that they know every bit as much about history as they do about gov't and economics, and well reality, as my cast iron door stop does, and it at least serves a useful purpose.

The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: Any Day Now, the Dinar RV Story

Post by Alcibiades »

Stage2Omega, ever helpful in explaining the news behind the news and the reality surrounding the dinar RV and the Global Currency Reset, has published this gem:

"PER CONVERSATION, THE IRAQ CIVIL WAR IS TAKING PLACE FOR A SPECIFIC REASON AND PLANNED PURPOSE THAT WILL BECOME OBVIOUS SOON AND THE CIVIL WAR HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MONETARY POLICY, IMF PROTOCOL & B.I.S. PROTOCOL IN REFERENCE TO INTERNATIONAL EXCHANGE RATE OR C.B.I. OPERATIONS & MONETARY REFORM POLICIES."

Very comforting, I'm sure, to the citizens of Fallujah and Ramadi where major battles are being fought. Also reassuring to know that in a country descending into civil war, the currency can still revalue upwards by several orders of magnitude.