The Brothers Clifford: Darren Murray Clifford's saga begins

[Jeffrey]

There was a two week lag between his hearings in December and the updates we got from Dean's webmaster and there was a month and a half between the Dec 3rd hearing and the transcripts that someone somehow magically obtained.

It's just bone dry out there, the two month anniversary of the arrest came and went. There's little to no commentary from his peers. The Dean Clifford Youtube channel, only one of the jailhouse phone calls has over 3,000 views. None of the seminar teaser videos have reached 3,000 views, of the huge dump of interviews they posted the most viewed video has 500 views. The most popular Dean Clifford videos on Youtube in the last month by third parties have been the two videos on him by WakeuptotheNWO2, who to his credit obtained the transcripts but can't crack 1,000 views, however he appears to have his own conspiracy theories going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efHbSmb6lbQ

I think we and Dean clearly overestimated his popularity, whatever followers he may have had at one time are clearly moving on to other scams

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

But if so, then what?

To be explicit I am not disputing your conclusion Jeffrey that the recent public Freeman-on-the-Land response has been minimal - instead I quite agree. What leaves me uncertain is why things are different now that a year ago, when Dean's arrest and detention was such a public cause.

I offer a tentative alternative to your solution that a large community of OPCA litigants has abandoned Clifford for someone else; what if Clifford's core audience has just given up entirely? Most of them had seen years of failure for these pseudolegal schemes. Was Clifford the last best hope, and now they are fading away? I do not think this is an unlikely alternative. I think it is fair to say that in Canada there have been at least three waves of OPCA litigants; a poorly characterized right wing, sovereign-citizen-like wave in the 90's, the Detaxers in the early 2000's, and now the Freemen. Each had ideologically and pseudolegally distinct approaches. The first two (as far as I can tell) are extinct. (Except for David-Kevin: Lindsay, and that's a topic all its own.) Are we seeing the end of the Freeman wave?

Merely hypothesis.

It occurs to me that is it also possible Dean's litigation has been seized by a new agency. I am wondering if Dean's biological family has appeared and is attempting damage control. That is purely a guess - but it would explain the sudden end of public commentary.

After all, Dean is facing some serious time incarcerated.

SMS Möwe

[Jeffrey]

I think it's very possible that Clifford's current arrest and predicted conviction might be the death of Freemanism in Canada. If not outright death maybe it'll remain underground and offline with people like Todd who express their SovCit beliefs by remaining unemployed and putting out weird videos denying global warming on YouTube. Maybe there's a possible Canadian Timothy McVeigh among those couple thousand YouTube views who will become radicalized by this and take out his ire on CRMP or the government but then the rhetoric has never been that heated.

I think big difference between this arrest and a year ago is that the arrest shows he possibly lied about the last case and the charges are a lot more serious. For people who followed Dean for "remedy" as they like to say, nobody is going to try his stuff if it got Dean thrown in jail and 3 trucks seized. And just the string of freeman failures plus meads percolating and increased public scrutiny definitely has to have taken a toll. I think that perceived failure is probably why Deans behavior became so much more erratic in the last year as the arrest got closer; Dean was also a supporter of the Peace Officer scheme, he must have heard about Nainamo.

The possibility of his family getting involved is close to one theory I have. There's a disconnect between Dean and the webmaster; it's possible someone asked that no more updates be posted. Although I think the web guy may be somewhat rogue and trying to keep the donations coming in while Dean is in jail, all speculation though. Deans final phone conversation was definitely a lot more desperate, his voice a lot more shaky as compared to prior audio. For all we know Dean could have snapped back to reality when told about the possible maximum sentence, or at least his family could be exerting some pressure as you suggest. Deans theories only considered right to travel schemes and how to avoid taxes etc; in none of his videos does he craft a SovCit exemption that would get you off drug, gun and assault charges. The letter to the UN and Queen really show the degree of desperation he was experiencing in December, throw in an extra month in a really bad jail and it's possible he's started to come to his senses.

Then again this board is littered with stories of people who keep pushing even after a conviction so it's all in the air.

[notorial dissent]

Their self imposed grandiosity not withstanding, I think both Jeffrey and Möwe will agree that the FML movement is more in the realm of a tickle when it comes right down to it. Appearances are, at least from my end of the daffyscope that they are certainly if not the last best hope, then certainly the noisiest contenders for it, and with them now pretty obviously set to do some serious time, even by Canadian standards, I don't see much either intellectually or even physically waiting in the wings to replace them. I suspect that the boys being in jail and the land squat having done well whatever it did that they are fresh out of old ideas for the moment.

[AndyK]

I think it's very possible that Clifford's current arrest and predicted conviction might be the death of Freemanism in Canada.
...

Sovereignorami never die off. They just (1) find a new guru to follow or (2) carefully poiont out how one of their ilk who lost merely failed to say the correct magic words in the correct order.

The movement will continue, morphing into other, just as stupid modes.

[arayder]

I think big difference between this arrest and a year ago is that the arrest shows he possibly lied about the last case and the charges are a lot more serious. For people who followed Dean for "remedy" as they like to say, nobody is going to try his stuff if it got Dean thrown in jail and 3 trucks seized. . . .increased public scrutiny definitely has to have taken a toll.

I question Dean's judgement in that he figured his tall tales about beating the rap wouldn't catch up with him. Neither was it wise to miss court dates and have a grow op in the same house with unregistered firearms.

Between freemen who aren't fooled by Dean's less than creditable stories about prior arrests and those who figure it's foolish to court disaster by having guns and a marihuana patch in one's home, there can't be growing crowd at Dean's door.

I suspect only those freemen who have "drunk the grape cool aide" are still on board with Dean.

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

araydar - welcome to Quatloos! I have read your contributions on JREF in the past, it's nice to see you here.

Jeffrey: you might be onto something with your comment on the deanclifford.info webmaster. I don't know if you ever listened/watched the numbingly lengthy and obsessive set of videos recorded by Tony Boutros of Global F.A.C.T. Radio concerning his betrayal by Dean Clifford? They can be viewed here:

• http://www.youtube.com/user/GlobalFACT/ ... shelf_id=4

Clifford's webmaster, whose name escapes me at the moment, is a major feature of those videos and someone Boutros views in a very negative light.

If you are correct with your model then it has an interesting parallel with Robert Menard and his old website, the World Freeman Society website and store (https://worldfreemansociety.org/). As far as I am aware Menard has completely abandoned that infrastructure and it is instead being run by a group of his associates - perhaps former associates may be a better term. Awhile ago there was much muttering about finances (viewtopic.php?f=47&t=9662), though apparently a solution of some kind was found and the entity persists to this day. It seems plausible the WFS operators are themselves receiving whatever income the WFS store generates - frankly, there's a lot of embarrassing and incriminating stuff on that website that Menard might prefer to have disappear into the ether.

On the fate of Freemanism, my very qualitative assessment is that the rank and file are indeed thinning. That can't be said for the guru caste, it seems like everytime I poke around I find a new theorist attempting to sell his perspective and techniques. At a minimum Scott Duncan, Chief Rock Sino General, Rob in the Pagefamily, minister Belanger, Marcus the Ex-Lawyer, Marcel Bessette, Irene Gravenhorst, the Human Rights Defenders League in Canada (Wally Dove & Kent Barrett), and I am certain there are more. These individuals are all trying to scoop up followers and mold their own little communities.

I think it's a situation of far too many generals competing for a dwindling pool of soldiers. And the generals are not at all eager to place themselves in the line of fire, well, except for Marcus the Ex-Lawyer, since he isn't having much choice on whether he participates in the litigation he faces.

The funny thing is, I think the surviving Canadian Freeman-on-the-Land community would grab on to any of these options in a heartbeat if there was any evidence of actual in-court success. However, none of these lead-gurus-to-be offers that, and so the current discontent continues.

Again, merely a qualitative opinion.

SMS Möwe

[arayder]

Hilfskreuzer Möwe, thanks. It is good to be here.

I agree with your assessment and would add the observation that freemen gurus aren't any better members of freeman society than they are of the larger society.

The same impulse that makes them detax and drive around without licenses and insurance compels them create phony projects, host useless seminars and rip off gullible wannabe freemen.

So why should freemen be surprised that Dean Clifford's boat load of tall tales about supposed "wins" sound like middle schoolers bragging about their sex lives.

"I had my case dismissed and told the judge he was a fool, liar in dishonor." sounds a lot like, "I bent Miss Jones, the pretty math teacher over the desk and she liked Mr. Happy so much she changed my grade from an F to an A".

[Jeffrey]

Sovereignorami never die off. They just (1) find a new guru to follow or (2) carefully poiont out how one of their ilk who lost merely failed to say the correct magic words in the correct order.

I think maybe I meant that SovCit is returning to it's normal baseline with the surge everyone noticed dying out.

And holy hell what a mess the FU thing is. They were attempting a pyramid scheme for Freemen and it all fell apart before they do anything that requires effort because they can't get along. It's such a disturbing subculture, a bunch of serial failures preying on other failures. The dishonesty involved in Dean painting himself as a successful businessman / contractor so he can market his lifestyle to other people via seminars. I mean, now we know how Dean was buying replacement trucks every x months, dude was just a drug dealer and even there we have to question just how successful he was at that given his problems paying his utilities.

Btw, if you haven't seen this that was posted up on Youtube a week ago, about halfway through Dean boasts about his marijuana growing operation while calling the cops stupid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcVususzRbU

[arayder]

Btw, if you haven't seen this that was posted up on Youtube a week ago, about halfway through Dean boasts about his marijuana growing operation while calling the cops stupid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcVususzRbU

This YouTube is simply a slightly more sophisticated version of a 10 year-old's "You ain't the boss of me!" rant.

I suspect that behind the misread history, bad legal advice, profanity and false bravado there is a deeply insecure young man.

Dean knows very well that he has never made a judge or lawyer bend to his will. He knows he's never beat the rap on anything. I maintain that his claims of success are falsehoods he knowingly repeats in the childish hope a few freemen will join him in his futile, decades long temper tantrum.

[Pottapaug1938]

It also reminds me of the childish rant "it's a free country"; and that in turn reminds me of the time when my son was around 10 years old and a slightly older girl was hassling him pretty intensely. He asked her to stop, and she replied "it's a free country."

Dan asked if that meant that people could do whatever they wanted to do without other people stopping them, and the girl replied "yes!" Dan was washing our car at the time... and you can guess what happened next. The girl immediately ran to complain to her father, who was sitting on his porch; and he gently but firmly told her that she had set herself up for what she got.

[notorial dissent]

I have to agree with Pottapaug here, the Clifford boys have pretty well gotten themselves right where they are by dint of their natural stupidity and extended effort. There is really no one to blame but themselves, and possible whoever they listened to in the first place.

[arayder]

I think It's pretty telling that all the authority figures Dean encounters are characterized as "stupid' or "retarded", none of them being as intelligent or learned as he.

I suspect the young son has a sort of intellectual Napoleon complex.

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

Looks like we have another un-update from the Clifford camp:

• http://deanclifford.info/2014/02/06/nex ... march-7th/

The most useful news is that the next hearing is scheduled for March 7. Dean's sure racking up the judicial interim release time... Otherwise, lots of rhetoric, innuendo, and stuff.

There's an associated video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... M9Po-SYKtY) which adds little or nothing, other than the Cliffordians are hoping to rally the troops on the date of the hearing.

SMS Möwe

[arayder]

The "Dean doesn't do any harm" argument doesn't fly in the face of Clifford's history of reckless driving and assaulting police officers.

I suppose one can argue that growing pot doesn't really hurt anyone as long as it isn't used to feed an addiction. But, leaving unsecured firearms laying around the house is the sort of foolish and irresponsible behavior that should make the "do no harm" line stick in the craw of the little criminal, Dean Clifford, every time he spouts his disingenuous line.