Bryan Fischer Believes the Income Tax is Illegal

[.]

I have copies of blank 1040 forms and related instructions for every year going back to 1913

Doesn't everyone?

No, wait. Kidding, just kidding. But, that is some serious tax geek-ery. Does the AICPA have a help line for stuff like that?

I use the 40 or so years of my filed tax returns as a doorstop.

[Famspear]

I have copies of blank 1040 forms and related instructions for every year going back to 1913

Doesn't everyone?

No, wait. Kidding, just kidding. But, that is some serious tax geek-ery. Does the AICPA have a help line for stuff like that?.....

Oh, but wait. The 1040 forms and instructions going back to year 1913 that I have are in PDF -- not printed out paper copies.

So, my condition isn't as serious as it first appears.

Oh, but wait. I have bound paper copies of Package X -- does anyone here remember Package X? I have those from the year 1979 to whichever year the IRS stopped printing them. They're in a box somewhere in my garage.

Oops, that puts my "geek factor" right back up into the red!

[Quixote]

Oh, but wait. I have bound paper copies of Package X -- does anyone here remember Package X? I have those from the year 1979 to whichever year the IRS stopped printing them. They're in a box somewhere in my garage.

Ah, the good old days. With a Package X and a Publication 17 I was unfazeable.

On an unrelated note, I saved several boxes of the 1991 editions of various IRS Instructions and Publications in braille from an IRS trash bin. I couldn't bear to imagine all that pristine cotton stock going into a landfill. I was a paper making hobbiest at the time. Most of the boxes are still in my garage.

[grixit]

Curiously, the list actually includes one public law enacted 25 days BEFORE the August 16, 1954 date of enactment of the 1954 Code. That's the Revised Organic Act of the Virgin Islands, on July 22, 1954. (And, don't even ask... whatever your question is, I have no idea.....

Can you at least say if gunsmithing is mentioned?

[Famspear]

Curiously, the list actually includes one public law enacted 25 days BEFORE the August 16, 1954 date of enactment of the 1954 Code. That's the Revised Organic Act of the Virgin Islands, on July 22, 1954. (And, don't even ask... whatever your question is, I have no idea.....

Can you at least say if gunsmithing is mentioned?

Well, I could......

but first I'd have to do several hours of legal research and then charge you my exorbitant, wildly excessive hourly rate.

[Dark Optimist]

The IRS website does have PDF copies of 1040's (and many other forms and publications) going back to 1913. And for the really interested, there is also a PDF of the 1864 form 1040.

More proof that the income tax existed before the 16th amendment.

[Famspear]

The IRS website does have PDF copies of 1040's (and many other forms and publications) going back to 1913. And for the really interested, there is also a PDF of the 1864 form 1040.....

Yes, although if I recall correctly the 1864 form appears to be, actually, the form for the tax year 1863.

For a few years, all this was found in IRS Publication 1796, "IRS Tax Products DVD." This was issued annually. I found out, to my consternation some months ago, that the government discontinued it, since the PDF forms are now on the IRS web site.

I bought the annual DVD (I think it went for about $25 to $35) each year for several years in a row, and I would actually have preferred that they continued it. I find it more convenient that using the web site.

[The Observer]

Ah, the good old days. With a Package X and a Publication 17 I was unfazeable.

Yes, nothing more thrilling than watching the taxpayer's face fall when you provide him with the blank 1040 form for that 12-year old delinquent return he claimed he couldn't file because those forms don't exist anymore.

[Famspear]

Ah, the good old days. With a Package X and a Publication 17 I was unfazeable.

Yes, nothing more thrilling than watching the taxpayer's face fall when you provide him with the blank 1040 form for that 12-year old delinquent return he claimed he couldn't file because those forms don't exist anymore.

I haven't had it happen to this degree yet, but I'd like to see Joe Delinquent come in one day and say, "Hey, I made a gazillion dollars in 1973 but I never filed a federal income tax return or paid the tax. I guess some sort of statute of limitations has expired by now, and I'm safe, right?"

Of course, I would have to respond to Joe by saying that the 6 year criminal statute of limitations has probably expired, but that the statute of limitations on assessment and collection of the tax has not even begun to run -- since Joe hasn't filed the return.

Then, I'd whip out the 1973 form and instructions.

No, wait.



First, I'd make Joe pay me a retainer fee.

Then I'd whip out the form and instructions.

[webhick]

Ah, the good old days. With a Package X and a Publication 17 I was unfazeable.

Yes, nothing more thrilling than watching the taxpayer's face fall when you provide him with the blank 1040 form for that 12-year old delinquent return he claimed he couldn't file because those forms don't exist anymore.

Which would be a valid comment had the IRS not already made every 1040 available online as far back as 1864 (technically, though, it only consecutively goes back to 1916).

[webhick]

Then I'd whip out the form and instructions.

Now Famspear, do you really think it's wise to start whipping things out again after what happened last time?

[Famspear]

Then I'd whip out the form and instructions.

Now Famspear, do you really think it's wise to start whipping things out again after what happened last time?

I guess I am not known for my wisdom.

[Famspear]

.....that is some serious tax geek-ery. Does the AICPA have a help line for stuff like that?.....

Maybe we should start a self-help organization: the TGA (Tax Geeks Anonymous), with monthly meetings.

At every meeting, you have to stand up in front of the group, and say,

"I'm Filbert Famspear, and I'm a Tax Geek."

Then, you tell your story.

Well, it all started innocently enough.

Graduated from college with an accounting degree. Went to work for a large, high-powered CPA firm, with a sophisticated audit and tax clientele. Passed the CPA exam, got licensed.... worked for years, doing tax returns for individuals, partnerships, corporations, trusts, estates, non-profits. You name it.

Somewhere along the way, I lost my way. Found myself sneaking my copy of the tax code home with me at night. Sneaking peeks at it while watching old re-runs of The Andy Griffith Show.

After a while, that wasn't satisfying enough.

I had to go back to the office late at night. So I'd have the entire Standard Federal Tax Reporter all to myself. Stayed up there 'til sometimes one or two.

Go home. Try to get some sleep. Just couldn't stop thinkin' about tax law, tax law, tax law, tax law, tax law, tax law arrrrrgggh!

I knew I needed help.

That's when I found TGA. Tax Geeks Anonymous.

Now, I'm on the road to recovery.

But, I know I'll never really be "cured." I'll always be....

a recovering Tax Geek.....

[Kestrel]

Which would be a valid comment had the IRS not already made every 1040 available online as far back as 1864 (technically, though, it only consecutively goes back to 1916).

Wow. I just looked at them. I always wondered when the thresholds were established for $600 payments to others (1864) and personal exemptions of $3,000 to $4,000 (1913). Now I know.

$600 and $3,000 meant a lot more back then.

[Duke2Earl]

[
Oh, but wait. I have bound paper copies of Package X -- does anyone here remember Package X? I have those from the year 1979 to whichever year the IRS stopped printing them. They're in a box somewhere in my garage.

Oops, that puts my "geek factor" right back up into the red!

Yes, I certainly remember Package X. When I started in tax, the CCH paperback version of the regs was 3 comparatively thin volumes. During my well over 30 years of practice, I accumulated quite a collection. I had an original Bulletin F. I had Blue Books going back to 1978. Lots and lots of stuff. When I retired my colleagues implored me to leave it behind because much of it was near impossible to find (the firm had ditched its law library years ago.) So I left it as the basis of a departmental library at my old office. I am told by my friends that they still use my trove regularly.

Which gets me to the ditching of law libraries. Yes, computer research is great. Yes, computers are fast and accurate. But there are still some things you cannot do accurately or conveniently on a computer screen. For example, it is hard to compare various versions of texts. Not everyone uses key words correctly and as such some things are hard as hell to find. I used to thumb thru the bound volume of Tax Court Reports when it showed up. And for some things just being able to thumb thru materials is invaluable. Not to mention how hard it is to read computers for long periods. Yes, I know it is very expensive to keep up to date paper libraries, both for the materials and the personnel. But without paper libraries a great deal is lost and only those old enough to have used paper libraries realize how much has been lost.

Yes, I am a very old fart. I was in the tax business before there were computers on everyone's desk. I was there before copiers were common, although they did have one enormous (the size of a small car) one in the office. I was there when secretaries actually typed letters and memos and used (horror of horrors) carbon paper. No email, no texts, no mobile phones, no faxes, no voicemail. But the key fact is that back then we did exactly the same job they do today. We filed returns. We wrote memos. We defended clients. And as far as I can tell I don't think much, if any, of it is done better or even faster, today.

[Famspear]

.....Which gets me to the ditching of law libraries. Yes, computer research is great. Yes, computers are fast and accurate. But there are still some things you cannot do accurately or conveniently on a computer screen. For example, it is hard to compare various versions of texts.....

Excellent point. Although I use a computer all day long, there is just something about having an actual paper copy -- especially when comparing various versions of texts, as you pointed out.

[Judge Roy Bean]

...
Wow. I just looked at them. I always wondered when the thresholds were established for $600 payments to others (1864) and personal exemptions of $3,000 to $4,000 (1913). Now I know.
...

You do realize that adding to the pile of useless knowledge eventually fills up the free space in your brain, making remembering more important stuff nigh impossible.

Be wary of learning too much useless stuff - I think eventually they'll find it's what causes senile dementia.

[LaVidaRoja]

Nonsense! Learning/memorizing useless stuff is what creates trivia champions!

[Cpt Banjo]

Nonsense! Learning/memorizing useless stuff is what creates trivia champions!

Indeed. When I'm in my dotage, I'll still be able to recall the name of only person to win a Nobel Prize and to have co-written a Billboard #1 hit song.

[ArthurWankspittle]

Nonsense! Learning/memorizing useless stuff is what creates trivia champions!

Indeed. When I'm in my dotage, I'll still be able to recall the name of only person to win a Nobel Prize and to have co-written a Billboard #1 hit song.

Hell yeah! How can you go through life without knowing who is the only racing driver to have won a Monaco GP, an Indy 500 and a Le Mans 24hr?