Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

[Demosthenes]

The BLM has another potential problem. If, as Fox reported, they really did destroy the water tanks and such, the 900+ cattle involved may have some survival issues coming up as the summer desert heat starts to climb into the 110s.

Apparently, they did shoot a couple of bulls during the round up, but there hasn't been any solid evidence yet about the mass grave claims.

[Kestrel]

CATTLE AND BISON

All cattle entering Utah, except those going directly to an inspected slaughter establishment or approved auction market, require the following:

Certificate of Veterinary Inspection (Health Certificate)
Import permit
Brand inspection certificate
...calfhood vaccinated for brucellosis
Negative brucellosis test...
Negative tuberculosis test...
negative trichomoniasis test...

They've known from helicopter surveillance done months ago that a hefty percentage of Bundy's herd is considered feral with no evident branding.

Where's a good cattle rustler when you need one?

Bundy won't even pay $1.35/head monthly grazing fees. I'd suggest there's a good chance he's not forking out decent cash for vet bills either. That's expensive. Sure is easy to have enough money for a big herd when you don't need to pay ordinary and necessary expenses.

Seriously, this is something the BLM, Health Department, or Department of Agriculture should look into. If someone can find evidence that he's running cattle without proper vaccinations and testing, they may be able to impound his entire herd because of the health risk he's creating for other ranchers. That kind of a seizure is not so easy to reverse.

[Demosthenes]

They already have a court order to impound the cattle for trespassing.

[Kestrel]

They already have a court order to impound the cattle for trespassing.

True. But the BLM has proven particularly inept at enforcing it, as you've pointed out.

Whichever agency enforces health laws may be more effective.

[The Observer]

The BLM has another potential problem.

At first glance, some may wonder why this should be perceived as BLM's problem, after all, you correctly pointed out that:

Why would the government need a court order to remove illegal fences, structures, and water facilities that are on the land they own and control.

And I essentially asked that question earlier.

But I think all of the above points out why this is a public relations disaster for BLM. If the cattle start dying from thirst, Bundy will be able to claim that he had no warning that the watering systems were going to destroyed this close to hot weather, that he cannot move all the cattle that quickly to alternative sites where water is available, and that he does not have the money or time to replace the structures. In short, Bundy will say, "See what the evil BLM did to my poor cows?" Imagine how that will play on the evening news.

The structures should have been removed or dismantled by BLM just prior to Bundy moving the herd back to those parcels (assuming that Bundy had to rotate them out to avoid overgrazing). But if Bundy is overgrazing, then the best time would be during the winter, with BLM enforcing a blockade of any attempt of Bundy trying to replace the structures. Either way, the responsiblity of the cattle being watered would pass back to Bundy and BLM would be able to say that Bundy had plenty of time to come up with alternative sites for his herd.

Seriously, this is something the BLM, Health Department, or Department of Agriculture should look into.

The other thing occurred to me is whether any investigators or serious journalists are trying to discover if Bundy is somehow bypassing agriculture laws to get his cattle into the food chain. After all, I seriously doubt that Bundy is raising 966 cows as pets, but that he is making a profit by converting them into meat. And if he is putting cows with potential health problems into the public food supply, how is he able to do that? Is there an unethical slaughterhouse in Nevada that is looking the other way so they can sell cheap meat to restaurants and hotels in Vegas? Or is he simply dumping his herd in Mexico since he knows he can't sell it here in the US? For what it matters, this may explain why Bundy has resisted moving his cattle off BLM lands because he knows he would never be allowed by owners of privately owned pastures to move potentially diseased cattle there.

I agree with you, Kestrel, that the the health issue that would have been better for the government to have played up rather than the trespassing issue - especially since BLM has taken 16 years in trying that angle.

[grixit]

Worse and worse. Now he could be endangering the livelyhood of his neighbors. Not to mention the ability of the government to recover some of the overdue fees. They need to have a proper plan, send in the marshals first. Inspect the cattle for anthrax and other urgent action conditions. Any that pass should be slaughtered as soon as possible. Forget selling them to the butchers, sell them directly to the canners.

[Kestrel]

After all, I seriously doubt that Bundy is raising 966 cows as pets, but that he is making a profit by converting them into meat. And if he is putting cows with potential health problems into the public food supply, how is he able to do that?

Maybe this has something to do with how he got the crowd of gunslingers to show up, when other sovereign-types seem to be openly avoided. Do we have any indication that Bundy permits private "harvesting" of his cows, like other guys hunt deer?

[The Observer]

Worse and worse. Now he could be endangering the livelyhood of his neighbors.

That is one part of the story that I cannot get straight. There have been reports from both sides of the aisle that Bundy is the last cattle rancher in the area, the rest left or stopped ranching due to BLM banning the grazing of cattle. Yet on the other hand, we keep hearing stories about how his fellow ranchers are either condemning or supporting Bundy's behavior. So I am not sure whether there are other cattle in the area that could be threatened directly by Bundy's herd. My presumption is that there is not, given the fact that Bundy's melon farm is some distance away from where his cattle are squatting and I can't imagine that there would be other cattle ranches directly abutting the BLM lands.

[The Observer]

Do we have any indication that Bundy permits private "harvesting" of his cows, like other guys hunt deer?

I guess it could be possible, but seems to be an inefficient way to market cattle. You would need a steady supply of customers who would know how to butcher the animal and have the means to preserve or refrigerate the meat and transport it out. I doubt that Bundy has that kind of operation going on, I would think BLM would be aware if "hunters" were showing up on the BLM lands with guns and stalking cattle.

[LPC]

From the UTah Department of Agriculture and Food website:

CATTLE AND BISON

All cattle entering Utah, except those going directly to an inspected slaughter establishment or approved auction market, require the following:

Weren't the cattle going to go directly to an auction?

[Demosthenes]

I have heard nothing to indicate that any of Bundy's cattle were in any way sick or diseased.

Bundy's farm is in the middle of the grazing land.

In a community this small, "neighbors" is a relative term and could refer to people several miles away.

The good folks at metabunk.org added the bundy farm (green square) to the map prepared by the BLM for Bundy's civil case.

The red zone shows the original land where Bundy had permits until 1993.

The black zone shows the land he expanded to include for his herd after 1993.

[Demosthenes]

Interesting bit from this article:

http://freebeacon.com/issues/the-rise-of-the-west/

Bundy is the last public land rancher in Clark County, and only three remain in all of Southern Nevada, according to the BLM.

[The Observer]

Weren't the cattle going to go directly to an auction?

But the question would be if the auction house was approved by the state of Utah. I haven't seen any details on the auctioneer that was hired by BLM.

And the map shows that nearest route to Utah goes over I-15 which first goes through the northwestern corner of Arizona. So another state that would have some interest in livestock being moved over its borders.

[LPC]

The black zone shows the land he expanded to include for his herd after 1993.

Some of the land with the black cross-hatching (which I understand is the "new trespass territory") is also purple, which the legend shows to be National Park Service land.

So Bundy was grazing his cattle in a national park?

What a jerk.

[Kestrel]

Some of the land with the black cross-hatching (which I understand is the "new trespass territory") is also purple, which the legend shows to be National Park Service land.

So Bundy was grazing his cattle in a national park?

What a jerk.

Was, and still is. Looks like he has plenty of access to water. Lake Mead is a bit bigger than a typical farm pond, even during this year's drought. The destruction of his man-made watering structures should have no significant impact on his already-feral herd.

[Demosthenes]

Was, and still is. Looks like he has plenty of access to water. Lake Mead is a bit bigger than a typical farm pond, even during this year's drought. The destruction of his man-made watering structures should have no significant impact on his already-feral herd.

After 14 years of severe drought, most of the blue area seen in the map is completely dry.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/ma ... evel-stil/

[Kestrel]

After 14 years of severe drought, most of the blue area seen in the map is completely dry.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/ma ... evel-stil/

I did look at pictures of Lake Mead earlier today, and those pictures didn't look as awful as what I've seen for other regions. I still saw a lot of water in the current pictures. Yet if it's that bad Mother Nature may succeed in solving the Bundy problem where the BLM has failed.

[ashlynne39]

Fox has a story up now about how Bundy and his supporters are calling on the sheriff to take charge since he outrank the feds. Of course the sheriff isn't falling into line and has some association with Reid so I'm sure Bundy and the militia folk are planning some sort of citizens arrest. I do wish Reid would lay off the domestic terrorist talk. It just inflamed things further and I don't think it's accurate given the acts of domestic terrorism we've actually seen. Also, Reid said that Bundy isn't paying his taxes. I haven't seen anything about that. Has anyone else heard that?

I've never figured out how sovereigns come to the conclusion that the local sheriff outranks the federal government. Anyone want to fill me in?

Here is the link to the story:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04 ... latestnews#

[ArthurWankspittle]

I've never figured out how sovereigns come to the conclusion that the local sheriff outranks the federal government. Anyone want to fill me in?

I can't fully explain it because it doesn't make sense, but it is based I think on the sheriff being elected directly by local citizens, without any of this government thing getting in the way. Therefore, in their pretend world of no government, the sheriff becomes the go-to guy to do things. And, of course, if he doesn't do what they want, they question his oath of office and citizens arrest him.

[Pottapaug1938]

Fox has a story up now about how Bundy and his supporters are calling on the sheriff to take charge since he outrank the feds. Of course the sheriff isn't falling into line and has some association with Reid so I'm sure Bundy and the militia folk are planning some sort of citizens arrest. I do wish Reid would lay off the domestic terrorist talk. It just inflamed things further and I don't think it's accurate given the acts of domestic terrorism we've actually seen. Also, Reid said that Bundy isn't paying his taxes. I haven't seen anything about that. Has anyone else heard that?

I've never figured out how sovereigns come to the conclusion that the local sheriff outranks the federal government. Anyone want to fill me in?

That's right out of the old Posse Comitatus playbook. Somehow, someone found out some "legal authority" for the proposition that the local sheriff is the highest authority in government, and that all state/provincial and national governments have to answer to him/her.

Here is the link to the story:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04 ... latestnews#