Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

[The Observer]

Excuse me if I'm wrong but weren't Ed and Elaine tax protestors and Bundy is a freeloader protestor?

I'm still waiting for Sen. Reid to explain his remarks about Bundy not paying taxes.

[LaVidaRoja]

Could he possible be hit with COD income for the lease fees he hasn't paid? Sort of an "imputed income" issue?

[Kestrel]

Could he possible be hit with COD income for the lease fees he hasn't paid? Sort of an "imputed income" issue?

It's possible, and they could threaten him with it, but

(1) The debt hasn't been cancelled or written off, which is generally a requirement when recognizing Cancellation of Debt Income.
(2) It wouldn't get rid of the cows.
(3) Bundy doesn't recognize the authority of the Federal Government nor the existence of the debt, so it's doubtful he'd acknowledge imputed income from the cancellation of a debt he doesn't believe exists in the first place.

Which makes me wonder whether he is filing his taxes, and if so whether those returns should be audited. Someone should look into that.

[Jeffrey]

Fees are taxes according to the Supreme Court.

[Demosthenes]

Me: Do you pay federal income taxes? Participate in Medicare and Social Security?

Cliven: Yes, I pay federal income taxes. I have paid into Medicare and Social Security as well.

I found no evidence of any tax liens.

[Kestrel]

Thanks for checking. It's a curious contradiction, that he would say he does not recognize or obey federal laws and denies the legitimacy of the federal government, but still submits to the authority of the tax collectors.

Interesting language about Medicare and Social Security: "I have paid." Granted, he is 67 years old, but I wonder how long ago "have paid" was. As a wealthy rancher he has self-employment income which is still taxable for Medicare and Social Security, no matter how old he is.

[Jeffrey]

Gotta give him credit, I think we all know self-employed people who "forget" to submit social security and medicaid payments.

http://gawker.com/nevada-militia-sets-u ... 1569203069

Have we posted this yet?

Nevada Militia Sets Up Armed Checkpoints, Demands to See Drivers' I.D.

[fortinbras]

There's evidently a serious rift between the rightwing factions at the Bundy patch, with the militia-types accusing the Oathkeeper-types of treason:

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2014/04/3 ... umors-fly/

[The Observer]

More information on the BLM Range Wars inlcuding an allegation that a judge ruled against the government, accusing BLM of engaging in RICO violations.

[The Observer]

Have we posted this yet?

Nevada Militia Sets Up Armed Checkpoints, Demands to See Drivers' I.D.

Bundy's son is denying that it is happening.

[fortinbras]

Yes, it appears that the anti-BLM vigilantes are closing off the town! I wonder what happens if a motorist tells these badgeless amateurs to go to hell.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/3 ... 39602.html

[grixit]

What if some militia type decides that some motorist is an enemy agent and orders them out of the car? What if said motorist motorist decides to defend themself? I say, send a copter with tear gas.

[The Observer]

What if some militia type decides that some motorist is an enemy agent and orders them out of the car? What if said motorist motorist decides to defend themself? I say, send a copter with tear gas.

Let just make the issue more ironic by moving it closer to home. What if the motorist that is stopped is another sovrun? Which sovrun is trump?

[AndyK]

What if some militia type decides that some motorist is an enemy agent and orders them out of the car? What if said motorist motorist decides to defend themself? I say, send a copter with tear gas.

This could be an interesting invocation of the "Stand Your Ground" law.

If some moron in pseudo-military garb orders me out of my car, he'd best

(1) not be standing in front of my car

and

(2) be wearing a VERY heavy-duty vest under his quasi-uniform (sniper rifles aren't the only things which fire 50 cal ammunition -- but it kicks like a mule)

and

(3) be immune to 20,000 volts

any and all of which I have available, have licenses for, and will use to protect my family.

[fortinbras]

The militia claims it is stopping cars only when there is "probable cause". That is the criterion for police - real police - stopping a car. For these highwaymen, it's just false arrest and possibly false imprisonment. And if they brandish a gun, it could get worse.

These twits have even dared to point their guns at REAL police:
http://www.libertyfederation.com/police ... f_the_hook

Oddly enough, the Oathkeeper faction (which purports to be trained current or former law enforcement and miliary) posted a video in which they (dressed pretty much exactly like the militia thugs) are bitching about the militia "dingalings" pointing guns in their faces. Apparently the Oathkeepers point their own guns back at them.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show ... 3576899668

The Oathkeepers are being accused of having floated a "hoax" by spreading the rumor that the feds were planning a drone attack on the "battleground" (which, considering it's federal land, and the various bullyboys are spread thin in their RVs and pup tents, seems unlikely). As the feds and the national news media has left town and these two groups are sort of at loose ends, with nobody to fight but each other, we may yet have a win-win situation.

[LPC]

What if the motorist that is stopped is another sovrun? Which sovrun is trump?

And whatever happened to the constitutional right to travel?

We seem to have self-proclaimed patriot sovereigns setting up armed checkpoints in which they question (or deny) other people the right to travel on public roads.

I'm sure that one of the morons has a lame rationalization that makes sense to them, but it would be purely ad hoc BS to me.

[LPC]

As the feds and the national news media has left town and these two groups are sort of at loose ends, with nobody to fight but each other, we may yet have a win-win situation.

Yes, coalitions of anarchists tend to be unstable.

[Jeffrey]

I disagree with Maddow, the story isn't "over". Bundy's cows are still grazing on federal land in violation of the court order, you got his militia buddies saying things like they're "ready to die" for Bundy, his body guards are running military drills and posting them on YouTube no less.

This is the calm before the storm.

[fortinbras]

This scarcely qualifies as "calm" but I think, if the federal govt merely proceeds in court - for example, getting court orders to seize the cattle and maybe Bundy's own land to pay for his outstanding grazing fees - without putting boots on the ground in Bunkerville, the two (or more) armed factions, being deprived of battle victories against the govt, will try to create their own victories by fighting each other. Then the Real police can clean up the mess and Bunkerville life can return to subnormal.

[LPC]

The Bundys announced on their Facebook page that they would be going to the Sheriff to file criminal complaints against the Bureau of Land Management at 10 am today (Friday, May 2).

No word on what, if anything, might have happened.