Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

[Jeffrey]

This thread isn't hard to find, anyone could have known about the loaded handgun two months ago.

My thoughts on HRP's theory. He posted it 18 hours ago, which means he heard from the recent Dean update that the federal gun charges were dropped, which I think we all agree is bullshit. So he cooked up a conspiracy theory about Dean ratting someone out to explain the dropping of charges.

I do like that they link Bill Faust in the second thread, a fellow student of Winston Shrout who ironically died due to a tendency for getting into fights with cops.

I'm starting to feel a little bit embarrassed about the fact that we've given more attention to this case than anyone sympathetic to Dean has.

As to the hilarious picture of the two hearings in one day screenshot, I'd point out again that his webguy Alex is the one that does the videos and article and he appears to be sprinkling in his own flavor of crazy. The obsession with the February charges is bizarre. I wish they'd give some honest answers just because I'm curious as to what the thought process is behind the scenes.

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

This is the apparent source of the 'Dean is a ratfink' motif - Scott Duncan of "The Tender For Law":

• https://www.facebook.com/groups/tenderf ... 663789469/

It's at the tail end of the "Joinder For Idiots" article, with more information in the comments. Interesting discussions...

SMS Möwe

[Jeffrey]

Dean, CLIFFORD, who was until recently facing FEDERAL WEAPONS CHARGES

Yeah it's entirely based on the false report of Dean's Federal charges being dismissed.

[arayder]

Dean, CLIFFORD, who was until recently facing FEDERAL WEAPONS CHARGES

Yeah it's entirely based on the false report of Dean's Federal charges being dismissed.

Dean has a track record of telling stories about what happened regarding his cases. I suspect he realizes the implication that his "brilliant" filings have gotten him off the hook will send a tingle up the spines of impressionable Deaners.

Most folks, realizing that the truth will come out, wouldn't play these games. But since Deaners are tragically afflicted with cognitive dissonance Clifford knows he can get away with telling his tall tales.

[notorial dissent]

Deaners are tragically afflicted with cognitive dissonance Clifford knows he can get away with telling his tall tales.

Is that a polite way of saying brain dead stupid??

[Jeffrey]

The claim about the charges being dismissed is so ridiculous it doesn't even merit discussion. So here's some discussion.

They're basing that on a letter Dean claims to have received from the Deputy Attorney General saying that they're not interested in going after Dean. Obviously that is bullshit so what could be going on there?

We know Dean is stupid and lacks basic reading comprehension, he probably received an unrelated letter from the guy after sending the A.G. some nonsense complaining about his arrest, and he took it out of context to mean that the charges are now dropped.

More importantly, even if you only have a basic understanding of how anything works, you should know that's not how charges are dismissed. And more tellingly, when Dean actually talks, he doesn't mention the dropping of the charges.

[grixit]

Oh come on, don't let the fictitious "Government of Canada" bamboozle you! It's obvious that hrp is a sleeper agent. He was planted in the sovereign community years ago. And now that Dean Clifford is close to exposing the whole fraudulent system, the crown officers, fearful of having to face justice, have activated this asset to smear him with disinformation.

[arayder]

It’s been interesting watching the Freemen-on-the-Land reacting to Dean’s litigation. It’s a topic of discussion at the World Freeman Society forums where there are a couple threads tracking developments:

• https://worldfreemansociety.org/forum/4 ... dian-video
  
  https://worldfreemansociety.org/forum/7 ... n-clifford

The second features “Xabre”, a Freeman from Calgary Alberta who’s eager to get media attention on the subject. He clearly has bought in, hook, line, and sinker. But not everyone is so trusting. For example, “bmxninja357” has the following observation:

well i have a theory.....

dean does not want to admit he had guns and drugs; including a loaded prohibited weapon(a prohibited saturday night special along with a few rifles), and that is in combination with the resisting arrest, failure to appear and i can imagine several other charges. so dean is doing what all long term offenders do. he is staying in remand until trial, where he will probably cut a deal for a reduced sentence and his remand days will be used to further reduce his sentence. in canada remand days usually count as a day and a half off the sentence.

its guns and drugs with a lengthy history with police. he is getting a few years.

but hey,
he is winning with his theories....

peace,
ninj

As I have noted elsewhere, bmxninja357 is rather different from most of those on the WFS forum. He is quick to point out the broadly defective, if not foolish, pseudo-science and conspiratorial tendencies of many who post there. He also seems to have a fairly sensitive guru bullshitometer.

SMS Möwe

BMX appears to have caught on to Dean's less than truthful ways.

Further on in the first thread posts put up by BMX since Möwe posted the above material here indicate that BMX suspects Dean's not much more than a drug pushing, gun toting liar who doesn't mind ripping off freemen for $180 Deaner memberships.

well t-erry, im with you on that. for the record i never trusted dean or his brother. his material is very unoriginal and much of it has been proven, repeatedly, not to have any effect. him and his brother seem to have a history of unpaid debts and burns best i can find. not to mention his flat out lies.

so what do we got?

a crooked contractor swindling the freeman movement out of money for little more than personal gain. and remember folks neither dean nor his brother are freemen little own freemen on the land. how do i know? both dean and darren have said loud and clear in court they are not. so why do they promote dean as such? its profitable. for them.

so what this guy is is nothing more than a dope dealer with a bunch of guns and a propensity for violent behaviours towards authorities. and here in canada when one is caught with both guns and drugs they get federal sentences unless you (a) turn rat or (b)have a very slick attorney. i have had massive success with option b in like situations. i have done tons of time in my younger years. there is two kinds of folk who spend all their time in solitary. violent offenders who present a threat to inmates and guards and those with something to hide, like themselves from whomever they have ripped off or ratted out.

if anyone from the deans a hero camp wants to shut my big yap up feel free! in fact i will tell you how. get him to send out a copy of his full disclosure. there is a one hundred percent chance he has it. and assuming he has nothing to hide from his paying customers he should have no problem with this. in fact i will not only apologize if im wrong, i will donate a hundred bucks to him.

so lets see some disclosure and some transcripts. if i have to find it myself i assure you it will not be pretty. and to find it all we also need his brothers record. this is because i belive he registered the business in his name. and while im making a few educated guesses im going to guess hrp's source is deans room-mate. when one tries to blame someone else for guns and drugs the easy route seems to be the room-mate. possession of guns or drugs(or anything else) requires three elements; knowledge , consent and control. who else would meet the criteria? who easier to blame for a reduced sentence? but that is just a guess. it holds no merit.

balls in deans court.
take the hundred or get fucked.

and either way you can tell by the way he is in jail his recycled rubbish does not work.

peace,
ninj
(i take my hate mail in the form of p.m.'s)

That's bad news for Dean. BMX is an opinion maker in the freeman cult.

[Jeffrey]

BMX been reading Quatloos?

[arayder]

BMX been reading Quatloos?

Sure looks that way. Kinda like Radio Free Europe, we are.

BMX has honed in on the differences between Dean's PR stories and the reality of the situation.

It seems we are not the only ones who have Dean pegged as a defunct, dishonest, small time construction contractor who has no problem with overcharging freemen for long ago disproven legal advice.

Whether it's cheating a fellow tradesman or fleecing gullible freemen, Dean can be counted on to have lost his moral compass.

My only question is when freemen are going to grow spines and do something about the $150 seminar fees and $180 forum memberships Dean bilked out of them.

[notorial dissent]

Actually, I question if the brothers Clifford ever actually had anything resembling a moral compass. From what other posters had posted as well as what the fanclub has posted over time, it would appear that Dean and Darren are cut from exactly the same sorry cloth, which would seem to originate from dear old da. Dean and Darren's talents and beliefs are generally not something one goes out in to the world to acquire, but rather learn at the parental knee. I may be very wrong here, but somehow I doubt it. Coupled with the fact that neither of them is either smart, clever, or ambitious enough to have come up this on their own, it leaves few possibilities. I think the one thing Dean(since he is obviously the smarter of the two, heaven help them) probably figured out on his own is that it is easier to get people to give you money for worthless advice that it is to actually work for it, something they both showed little talent for any way, and the Freeman community provided the gullible flock to be fleeced. Notably critical thinking and discernment functions generally completely missing or turned off, actively wanting to be fed something they wanted to hear, and no real discernment.

[arayder]

The basic pitch is to tell the freeman wannabe he is a flesh and blood man, fotl, spiritual being (or whatever term is selling today) and as such is not subject to the rule of tax law, traffic law. . .or whatever law society imposes.

We see that in Dean's case the ruse includes avoiding contract law.

This line of $150 a pop bull tells the self-deceiving freeman wannabe exactly what he wanted to hear in the first place.

Reinforced by a few undocumented and unbelievable claims of success pitched at freeman forums the wannabe freeman/sov goes out armed with his idea of truth.

When the method of the day doesn't work the poor freeman dupe will be treated to the "technologies" of a new guru who claims to be one step ahead of the powers that be.

In this way the cult moves from guru to guru. From Bobby Kennedy to Eldon Warman to Robert Menard to Dean Clifford to whoever is next. The game is always the same. Only the language of pitch changes.

[The Observer]

BMX been reading Quatloos?

Oh come on, don't let the fictitious "Government of Canada" bamboozle you! It's obvious that hrp is a sleeper agent. He was planted in the sovereign community years ago. And now that Dean Clifford is close to exposing the whole fraudulent system, the crown officers, fearful of having to face justice, have activated this asset to smear him with disinformation.

And again you guys underestimate the Illuminati. BMX was planted as an even deeper sleeper agent just to really mess with what is left of Dean Clifford's mind.

[arayder]

And again you guys underestimate the Illuminati. BMX was planted as an even deeper sleeper agent just to really mess with what is left of Dean Clifford's mind.

You may laugh, but there's been more than few times conspiracy minded freemen, noting the repetition of the same failed theory, have postulated that the gurus themselves are agents of the illuminati.

[notorial dissent]

Which is easier to believe than that THEY got suckered, yet again????

Oh, right, forgot for a second who I was talking about. Anything but the obvious.

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

I've obtained the Federal Crown response to Dean Clifford's action in Federal Court:

• http://www.mediafire.com/view/vshty8vkc ... Record.pdf

If you view the Federal Court entries for action T-869-14 this is document #5 on the record. It fully incorporates document #3 (the Crown's motion) and document #4 (the Crown's argument and authorities).

Frankly, the content is no shock. The Feds are arguing that Dean's action is hopelessly flawed and should be thrown out on that basis. Canada should not have to respond until this action is heard in Dean's favour. The Crown's argument is also brief; Dean is in the wrong court given his allegations.

I agree. If Dean had a cause of action (he doesn't) then it would be against the Province of Manitoba. Not the Feds.

There is no sign in the court record on when the Federal Crown action to strike will be heard, but I'll keep an eye out to see if the record gets updated to indicate that.

SMS Möwe

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

... You may laugh, but there's been more than few times conspiracy minded freemen, noting the repetition of the same failed theory, have postulated that the gurus themselves are agents of the illuminati.

It's unfortunately deleted but there was a fascinating video that involved "minister" Belanger of the Church of the Ecumenical Redemption International where he claimed he has seen CRA documentation (or IRS documents - can't remember) that identify a program where false-flag agents would be hired to infiltrate the Sovereign/Detaxer/Freeman community, promote ineffective schemes that nevertheless disclose their subscribers to state authority, all for cash.

And he specifically identifies Robert Menard as one such agent. To be honest, Belanger's argument made a lot of sense - it neatly correlated state surveillance purposes with what Menard says one needs to do to 'opt out' of state authority.

Frankly, I don't believe it, but as a theoretical exercise it was interesting to see how closely Freeman guru instructions match what would be an excellent way to identify and classify malcontents in a population.

SMS Möwe

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

BMX been reading Quatloos?

Looks like it. Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me - he's got a skeptical and analytical mind. Not that I agree with him on quite a few points, but I respect someone who quite obviously goes out, identifies, and examines primary literature, rather than simply regurgitating copypasta ad nauseum.

bmxninja357 - if you are observing and you have Manitoba connections, it's extremely cheap to obtain Dean Clifford's current Provincial Court records. As previously noted in this thread, it's $1.00 to obtain a complete copy of his Provincial Court record: http://www.manitobacourts.mb.ca/provinc ... inks/fees/

I think it's another $1.00 to get his bail records, but I'm not certain where the line is between those two categories. Oh I'm sorry - "Ba'al Records".

In any case, kudos to you for doing what the 'free media' (yes, that's you We Are Change Victoria and Winnipeg Alternative Media) are incapable of - actual investigation and objective analysis.

SMS Möwe

[notorial dissent]

Meet Paranoia, Delusion's kissing cousin.

Möwe, quite true. BMW does seem to be able to actual go out and look for real information and actual source material rather than being wholly dependent on someone to spoon feed it to him. As you say, his interpretation leaves a lot to be desired in some cases, but he is leagues ahead of his contemporaries though, which is really bad news for Deano and company.

[Jeffrey]

Dean and Darren's talents and beliefs are generally not something one goes out in to the world to acquire, but rather learn at the parental knee. I may be very wrong here, but somehow I doubt it.

I should point out that, as far as we know, Dean and Darren's father is anti-freeman and has said he's ashamed of his kids record of incarceration. I don't think this is a case of bad parenting. Dean even mentions that he dropped out of college at one point, presumably in the 90s around the time of his brothers first arrest. This makes me think Papa Clifford actually tried to afford them with access to higher education and the type of employment opportunities that opens up, which they squandered in favor of crime, scams, long term unemployment, dabbling in white supremacy etc.

im looking for a pattern of deceit. i could see being a hard worker and running a site that was free or reasonably priced. i cannot see charging a largely poor crowd exorbitant sums for recycled, dis-proven, and financially harmful information.

Go on Youtube and look up the "Dean clifford lies to his followers from jail" videos if you want some meat. I want to add some caveats in defense of the Clifford brothers. I think Darren's disavowal of the Freeman movement is being taken out of context, I think he only denied that to avoid being "profiled".

From what we've seen from Dean and Darren's filings and court room antics, they are true believers, they do believe that the stuff they sell at their seminars works. If that wasn't the case they wouldn't be trying the same stuff they sold to get out of jail now. The real "pattern of deceit" is in the fact that they falsely claimed their tactics were being successful in court when their history shows failure after failure in court. A lot of it seems to be the Cliffords lying to themselves that this stuff can work. There are third parties giving Dean legal advice which he believes is legitimate but which has never and will never work, for example Dean's attempts at using A4V to get out of jail, his attempts at using remittances which I strongly suspect he got from Rob Menard, his use of liens and fee schedules, etc etc.

The core of Dean's confusion is ultimately his false belief that statutes only apply to government agents which he bases on a misreading of the Charter of rights and freedoms and a few lines out of context from a few court decisions.

I also think it's more likely that Dean and Darren aren't "crooked contractors" but rather incompetent. What the court records show is that they were always short on cash for paying for tools or concrete or whatnot. Neither of them have any brains and running a construction company isn't easy.

If you're going down to the courthouse to do more digging I suggest these leads are the most likely to yield gold.

1. Dean's 2008 case where he lost over fifty grand in some sort of car related incident. He's never mentioned it publicly as far as I know, it would be interesting to get the full story.
2. Darren's full criminal record. We know of his mid-90's arrest, a recent assault. My guess is there is more. There is also a custody case which Dean claims he helped Darren win; my guarantee is that it wasn't successful.
3. Find out how much Dean's bail in July was. The Dean camp refuses to admit he was out on bail, an actual figure of how much he paid in Bail last year would be really embarrassing to them; particularly since I assume he had to forfeit that money when he didn't show up to court in August.