Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

[arayder]

The Lindsay ploy is the "we-have-new-technology" ruse so often used by freemen gurus.

The faithful have to be given new hope and the Clifford brand name is tarnished after Dean's several months in the pokey.

Some freemen wannabes won't realize Lindsay has a decades long history of failure and many who know his history will be convinced it was useful experience leading to his eventual victory.

By teaming up Dean gets to push the notion that he has a whole new batch of magic and Lindsay gets to remain a relevant guru.

Dean's web guy gets thrown to the curb and we get to watch the Clifford/Lindsay team explain away another round of failure. . . provided of course that the clash of egos between Dean and David doesn't scuttle the whole deal.

This should be good. . . .

[Fmotlgroupie]

My one claim to Freeman- related fame is that I once spoke to David Kevin Lindsay on the phone. It was brief and only really revealed that he's a jerk, but such Is the price of celebrity, I guess.

[arayder]

My one claim to Freeman- related fame is that I once spoke to David Kevin Lindsay on the phone. It was brief and only really revealed that he's a jerk, but such Is the price of celebrity, I guess.

I talked to Russ Porisky once. Same thing, he was a jerk.

--------------------

Lindsay's web presentation will serve as an indoctrination to freemen wannabes.

They'll shell out $75 and some will attempt to start prosecutions aimed at the authorities who have written them traffic tickets, or sent them tax notices.

By paying the fee and or writing out the paperwork the freeman wannabe steps into the subculture and becomes a sort of fellow traveler with Clifford, who has now hooked up with Lindsay.

The hopeful freeman wannabe can't admit that Dean and Lindsay's methods are flawed without admitting he was naive enough to shell out $75 for something that has never worked and never will.

[Jeffrey]

That was one of the parts that stood out in the last update, Paul, Chris and Darren all talking about how Freemanism is expensive and an investment and that you need to really focus your money on seminars and books and lectures. Then completely ignore Darren being found guilty and Paul being found guilty.

Just a total lack of self-awareness. Look in the mirror, your lives have been ruined by this Freeman shit and you keep dumping money into it when it has never been beneficial to any of you. Oh and now that Dean is in jail you just move on to the next Guru. Oh the section 32 argument you were 100% sure was right didn't work so now you're just moving on to Lindsay's private prosecution thing which you're 100% sure will work this time.

I feel like Cartman, wish I could freeze myself and fast forward to Dean being found guilty. Freeman reactions will be priceless. Kind of ridiculous it's taken this long, you got pictures of the crime scene, physical evidence, you got Dean admitting to the crime in multiple interviews, this is an open and shut case.

[notorial dissent]

Yes, I guess you could say Freemanism is expensive, particularly when you factor in all the legal fees and costs you are going to engender over your quixotic crusade to prove just how gullible you are, as well as all the fines and penalties, and finally the cost of your reputation-assuming you have one to start, job, life, marriage and family relationships. Yes, I would say it is very expensive. By all means give your hard earned, always assuming you’re even working, to some other fraud who will be ever so happy to tell you how to further screw up your life as if you haven’t already done a bang up job all on your own, but they want to make sure you finish it off well and truly, after all, they won’t be the ones going to jail when it all blows up in your face.

[arayder]

I find it amazing that freemen, even semi-gurus like Darren Clifford, are so easily swayed by the theory du jour.

It seems to have escaped these boys that no sane society allows mere malcontents like Clifford and Lindsay to charge judges with crimes for enforcing its laws.

It should not be lost upon us that this phony freeman revolution started with a few puffed up you-ain't-the-boss-a-me boys whinning about their traffic tickets and tax bills.

Freemen lurkers should realize that after 25 years of woo there isn’t going to be any new theory, new method, new technology or new guru that’s going to make it possible for them to drive drunk, speed, assault cops and cheat on their taxes.

It’s time to grow up, boys.

No charge for that freeman lurkers!

[Lambkin]

I find it amazing that freemen, even semi-gurus like Darren Clifford, are so easily swayed by the theory du jour.

Yes but in some ways I find their behavior remarkably consistent. They "just don't wanna" and so will change tactics as often as needed, without regard to any principles other than self-enrichment and sticking it to the man. They have switched tactics so many times, they can't have a strong attachment to whatever they're trying now.

[rumpelstilzchen]

Freemen lurkers should realize that after 25 years of woo there isn’t going to be any new theory, new method, new technology or new guru that’s going to make it possible for them to drive drunk, speed, assault cops and cheat on their taxes.

This is what I find difficult to understand and yet fascinating at the same time. Even though there is not one example of FOTL working anywhere and there are many many instances of outright failure, these boys are still convinced FOTL works. Their own gurus find it impossible to point to one verifiable court case where the FOTL argument was accepted by a court but they are still willing to follow their guru and believe FOTL has validity. When one method fails they immediately accept the revised method as being a winner. It always reminds me of the pied piper. The guru plays the tune that the boys want to hear and they merrily follow him. But why would anybody follow somebody who can only offer failure as evidence?

[AndyK]

Because, when one of them finds a large pile of horse poop, he immediately starts looking for the pony; if not the unicorn.

[arayder]

. . .They "just don't wanna" and so will change tactics as often as needed, without regard to any principles other than self-enrichment and sticking it to the man. They have switched tactics so many times, they can't have a strong attachment to whatever they're trying now.

. . .Even though there is not one example of FOTL working anywhere and there are many many instances of outright failure, these boys are still convinced FOTL works. Their own gurus find it impossible to point to one verifiable court case where the FOTL argument was accepted by a court but they are still willing to follow their guru and believe FOTL has validity. When one method fails they immediately accept the revised method as being a winner. It always reminds me of the pied piper. The guru plays the tune that the boys want to hear and they merrily follow him. But why would anybody follow somebody who can only offer failure as evidence?

Freemen just can't accept the fact that no society, even those in some mythical common law time, has or will allow individuals to going around breaking the law as they please.

I have suggested to several Canadian freemen over the years that they do what rebellious folks have done since the beginning of time. . .go off into the great north were nobody is going to bother them. I have made several trips over the years to western Canada and Alaska. I've seen countless communities that cater to oddballs, the unique and the rebellious.

To be fair some freemen aren't hale enough to make a go of it up there. Some are just lazy arses who want a bus stop, a Tim Horton's and a pub near by.

[notorial dissent]

Freemen lurkers should realize that after 25 years of woo there isn’t going to be any new theory, new method, new technology or new guru that’s going to make it possible for them to drive drunk, speed, assault cops and cheat on their taxes.

The inoperative phrase here being should. There is no justification or reason in continuing to believe in the fantasy, "that if I only say the words just right, it'll work next time", and yet they do and do and do. It is the "if only" and "next time", that always stands out. I am reminded again of the Einstein quote about experiments and insanity.

[arayder]

Freemen lurkers should realize that after 25 years of woo there isn’t going to be any new theory, new method, new technology or new guru that’s going to make it possible for them to drive drunk, speed, assault cops and cheat on their taxes.

The inoperative phrase here being should. There is no justification or reason in continuing to believe in the fantasy, "that if I only say the words just right, it'll work next time", and yet they do and do and do. It is the "if only" and "next time", that always stands out. I am reminded again of the Einstein quote about experiments and insanity.

Some freemen are getting the message.

Over on the WFS forum https://public.worldfreemansociety.org/ ... ?start=126 Meta and BMXninja are getting into it over ninja's idea that decades long losers like Clifford and Lindsay ought to be throw to the curb.

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

My one claim to Freeman- related fame is that I once spoke to David Kevin Lindsay on the phone. It was brief and only really revealed that he's a jerk, but such Is the price of celebrity, I guess.

Oh, I do not think you should criticize Mr. Lindsay. I suspect you did not identify yourself by name, font and style. For all he knew you were just a fraud or impostor.

SMS Möwe

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

I made a visit to my local branch of the Federal Court of Canada to obtain from the ever friendly clerks a copy of the decision striking out Dean's lawsuit against Canada, docket T-869-14:

• http://www.mediafire.com/view/ka000rd0o ... struck.pdf

The decision is brief, just four pages long. Prothonotary Lafreniere restates the law that a statement of claim may only be struck if the action is hopeless. This step is only available in the clearest of cases.

The Prothonotary generally adopts the Crown argument: Dean's allegations are utterly unfounded:

The Plaintiff's Statement of Claim breaches the rules of pleading in every respect. Instead of stating material facts establishing a reasonable cause of action, the Statement of Claim simply consists of bare or general assertions, bald statements, argument, and conclusions. Moreover the Statement of Claim does not allege any tortuous act on the part of any identifiable agent or servant of Her Majesty the Queen in Right of Canada. The allegations are so bereft of any details that they are impossible to respond to in any meaningful way.

I should add that the proceeding constitutes an abuse of process in that the Plaintiff is attempting to quash criminal proceedings brought against him in this Court. The charges must be challenged in the forum in which they were made, using the procedure available in that forum. The provincial courts have the necessary and exclusive jurisdiction to quash an information or determine the legality of an arrest or charges. It is not for the Federal Court to decide these issues so as to purport to bind the provincial courts.

Dean's action is struck out. No amendment "would cure the radical defects in his pleading." Costs of $400.00 are awarded to the Crown.

I believe that is pretty much exactly what burnaby49 and I predicted would be the analysis and result.

Oh well. At least Dean still has his $2 billion lawsuit. Somewhere.

SMS Möwe

[Burnaby49]

This is pitiful. This isn't even a case of our great Freeman legal genius not getting the Federal Court to agree with him, he couldn't even get them to look at it. One of the Prothonotary's function is to screen out totally defective pleadings and cases without any hope of success to save the court the trouble. Basically a gatekeeper. He didn't even have to evaluate the merits of Dean's Statement of Claim. There were none.

It didn't take any great legal acumen on my part to conclude that the Federal Court did not have juridiction to hear Dean's motion, that was blindingly obvious. What this document reveals is that it didn't even matter. The Statement of Claim is so overwhelmingly defective that it was dead on arrival. One sentence said it all.

"The Plaintiff's Statement of Claim breached the rules of pleadings in every respect."

If anyone in the Freeman community still thinks Dean has any credibility at all left they are basing that opinion on faith, not evidence.

[Jeffrey]

Dean is too stupid to understand the language of that letter. In his head he's going to read:

every pleading must contain a concise statement of the facts

and he's going to believe that the statement of claim was struck because he forgot to add facts and properly format it and simply try that crap again.

To any "prothonotaries" that may be reading, please write these things in sixth grade language when they deal with Freeman types. In fact, read a few articles from http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page to get the type of language that should be used.

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

Oh ho - a new update from Dean!

• 2014 05 25 - Dean Clifford - Update 10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54AfFU4GFpQ

Well, without Dean. It's Darren Clifford, Chris Sosnowski, Paul Stein and ...

• ! ! ! David-Kevin: Lindsay ! ! !

Dave is providing legal guidance on such things as filing private information criminal charges, habeas corpus applications, the distinction between civil and criminal proceedings and their procedures and tests, and many other useful things.

And unlike certain other people we know, his advice is actually very accurate.

This is quite amusing.

Dave at around 19:30 recounts his struggles to eliminate security checkpoints in Manitoba courthouses. I'll highlight those judgments at some point - they're interesting.

At 22:00 Lindsay notes that Kevin Annett's ITCCS has an issue - it's nice to have your own pet court, but the trick is to enforce your judgments. Yes - that certainly is an issue!

At 28:00 Darren explains that Dean is filing paperwork to convert his civil actions in the Manitoba Queen's Bench to criminal actions! My goodness!

The difference in knowledge and competence between Freemen and Detaxers is quite remarkable. But they still have common and silly misconceptions such as the implications of drivers' licenses. This recording is worth a listen.

Oh, and it's been six months since Dean was detained. Happy demi-anniversary, Dean!

SMS Möwe

[LordEd]

Oh, and it's been six months since Dean was detained. Happy demi-anniversary, Dean!

Victory!

[arayder]

At 28:00 Darren explains that Dean is filing paperwork to convert his civil actions in the Manitoba Queen's Bench to criminal actions! My goodness!

Dean may end up becoming a vexatious litigant while still in jail! Is that possible?

[Lambkin]

Dean and Darren, what a pair! I was just reflecting on their youthful foolishness and thinking to myself "where are these guys parents?" Are they alive? I'm curious to hear their take on their progeny's career choices.