The Revolution has Begun (Law Vegas Division)

[Famspear]

....Today in Las Vegas someone started shooting up a restaurant, starting with two uniformed policemen who were there, shouting "The Revolution has begun." His Revolution came to an abrupt end about two blocks away within the hour, and so far I haven't heard any further details. Maybe SovCit, maybe not. Lots of people who are more rightly members of the tinfoil helmet brigade don't mind calling themselves SovCits and/or Teapartiers when they are really just Badly Medicated.

Preliminary report: A man and a woman killed 2 police officers at a CiCi's Pizza place, then went to a nearby WalMart and killed one person. Police arrived at Walmart, engaged the two suspects, but apparently the female suspect killed the male suspect, and then killed herself.

[fortinbras]

Definitely uncommon (but not unheard of, such as Sibley and Block) for a man and woman to work together in a crime of SovCit type violence. Don't yet know if this is rightwing, leftwing, or just plain crazy.

[Jeffrey]

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-v ... ill-police

Police are looking into their links to the white supremacy movement and found swastika symbols during their initial investigation.

They then covered the officers with something that featured the Gadsden flag, a yellow banner with a coiled snake above the words, “Don’t tread on Me.”

Basically generic, right-wing extremist white supremacist neo-nazis.

[notorial dissent]

I think the latest consensus, according to recent reports, at LVPD is that they were white supremacist nutballs instead of sovrun nutballs, scant consolation to the two men who were murdered by them, or their families, but is a lot more probable.

[LPC]

I'm starting a new thread on the Las Vegas shootings, separate from the Dennis Marx thread, and hopefully separate also from the Clive Bundy thread (although there is some connection there).

News report here, from the Las Vegas Review-Journal.

Unfortunately (or fortunately), I don't have moderator powers here, so I can't move the previous postings on the Las Vegas shootings from the Dennis Marx thread.

I moved the appropriate posts, which appear above, Gregg

[Paths of the Sea]

Here's a similar report:

http://www.mediaite.com/online/vegas-sh ... ndy-ranch/

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[Paths of the Sea]

Here's another one that has come out:

http://www.mediaite.com/online/vegas-sh ... -rights/#5

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[Thule]

One of the shooters, Jared Miller, was apparently interviewed by NBC at the Bundy Ranch (appr. 45 sec into the clip).

http://youtu.be/KHsWje_nI8c

[Jeffrey]

Everyone is in full damage control right now.

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/06/09 ... man-joker/

Ammon Bundy, one of Cliven Bundy’s sons, said by telephone that it is possible the Millers were at the ranch, the scene of an armed standoff with federal agents, but that “we have not found anybody that recognizes them.” He said thousands of people have come to his father’s ranch over the past several months.

By 4 p.m. the story changes to:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/5-dead-l ... s-shooting

Jerad and Amanda Miller had been kicked off a Nevada ranch where anti-government protesters faced down federal agents earlier this year because they were "very radical," according to the son of rancher Cliven Bundy.

Not saying the change in narrative was due to video of Miller at the ranch, but come on.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/06/09 ... -wa/199644

Alex Jones Alleges That Las Vegas Cop Ambush Was "Absolutely Staged" By Harry Reid And Other Conspirators

[Demosthenes]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jjmacnab/20 ... -movement/

[AndyK]

Phenominal article -- unfortunately well above the reading and comprehension level of the average American.

On the plus side -- great picture.

On the down side -- I hope this doesn't bring the snakes back out from under the rocks at you again.

[Fmotlgroupie]

Excellent article as always, thanks.

[Demosthenes]

Thanks! So far, only a few nasties have come out.

Apparently, ADL doesn't like me either.

[grixit]

Interesting. So, would you say the Turner Diaries are no longer relevant?

[LightinDarkness]

I find it interesting that Mark Pitcavage commented stating that these guys can't be sovereigns and are just part of the patriot movement. To me, sovereign citizens are generally* a subgroup of the patriot movement. I say generally because the characteristics of patriot groups (calls for revolution, don't tread on me flags, etc.) are almost universally shared by sovereigns. Trying to put these two flavors of crazy into two distinct groups is, I think, an attempt to assign discrete categories to an ideology that is much more fluid in terms of its boundaries. What do you think, Demo?

*I say generally because there are non-patriot sovereigns, such as those who go off the deep end with Moorish Nation flavored quackery. However, even these appear to be in the distinct minority compared to the patriot variety of sovereigns.

[Demosthenes]

Turner Diaries are out. Unintended Consequences would be in, but it's really long and kind of dull.

These days, it's more movies and freaky group video chats on YouTube than books. Kids these days.

[Demosthenes]

I find it interesting that Mark Pitcavage commented stating that these guys can't be sovereigns and are just part of the patriot movement. To me, sovereign citizens are generally* a subgroup of the patriot movement.

I completely agree. The movement has gone through multiple phases/names over the years, depending on what's hot at the time. Posse Comitatus, Christian Patriot, Militia, Tax Protest, and now Sovereign.

Mark didn't just comment, he spelled my name wrong while putting words in my mouth.

As for these guys not being sovereigns, the evidence is kind of overwhelming right down to tax scam and redemption theory stuff. Hell, the couple moved from Indiana to Las Vegas just to provide support to the IAP - the group run by Christopher Holloman Hansen's family. They
call themselves "the Sovereign Citizens of Nevada."

Mark says the Millers are militia mindset, not sovereign. The two are not mutually exclusive, and Jerad has never been in the military or joined a militia. He attended an OathKeepers meeting in Las Vegas in February, but that was only because the IAP Candidate for Governor (VanDerBeek) was the speaker.

As for the Anonymous + Sovereign combination, there's a huge overlap in Jared Miller's statements and tastes with the Canadian kid who just shot five Mounties, killing three a couple day earlier. The Canadian killer's 2nd Amendment rants were fascinating.

[notorial dissent]

Congratulations on the good work. I tried to read the article at Forbes, but they have added something that my browser and security system don't like so I had to give up after a while.

I do think your analysis is spot on the mark, everything that has come out and that they have said and done indicates that the LV whackos were not ony sovcit, but militia/2nd amendment whackos as well, as well as being well just plain whacked to begin with.

I will have to admit to being of two minds on the sovcit/patriot group/subgroup thing, I agree whole heartedly that if you scratch one you almost invariably find the other, I'm just not sure if one is really a subgroup of the other or which would be which. I do think this would all make an interesting, if scary, not to mention complicated Venn Diagram.

I will add my snipe for the day, the current sovcit generation's attention span has followed the national trend in some areas, and if they can't get their information in short order they discard it and move on to something else. They are truly part of the Youtube/social media generation.

Again way to go.

[grixit]

I am somewhat disheartened to see that those two were fannish.

[Burnaby49]

As a result of the references to the "Turner Diaries" in this discussion I finally downloaded and read a copy. Thanks for nothing on that one. The overall content was about what I expected but I'd hoped for a better quality of actual writing skills. Just dire. Plodding, unimaginative, flogging the main points to death (along with almost all of you Americans and, for some reason, Toronto).

Wikipedia says it is banned in Canada. Somewhat pointless when I can download a PDF in seconds.

So why is the ADL unhappy with you Demo?