Sovrun Frivolous Appeal

[ashlynne39]

ashlynne - if you are still concerned for your friends, show them the following two docs: Bowden's attempt to appoint the DJ as his "fiduciary" and his declaration of sovrunty. If they still want to view the Bowdens as friends, don't sweat it. I really can't imagine that the govt cares about Bowden's friends.

However, if they have any sense at all, these docs should serve to convince them not to become financially involved with the Bowdens, to the extent of refusing to loan them enough for a cup of coffee.

Thanks for the input Wes. They aren't friends with the Bowdens so much as part of a small social group that meets every few months and the Bowdens are involved. I've explained to them what the Bowdens are up to but will show them the two docs you posted. I'm not worried about them getting financially involved. I think I've explained to them pretty well what the Bowdens are involved in and they also know Wes went to jail so they don't want any part of his financial dealings. Also, from what they've said, in all the times this social group has met, neither Bowden has brought up any of their sovereign/tax issues. I will warn them again tho. They're way too nice (nicer than me) to laugh at the Bowdens if they start talking about this stuff. They're more likely to take my advice and politely excuse themselves and leave, which is my preference. If I get a chance to meet the Bowdens at any point, I will be sure to post my impressions.

[Judge Roy Bean]

... But my question is how does the government treat, not friends but more than acquaintances of these types of people? By that, I mean do they look into the people who hang around with sovereign citizen/tax protestor types? Are my friends going to have any troubles brought on by their social association with the Bowdens even though they aren't involved in the craziness? ...

The short answer used to be "don't worry about it" because the "government" didn't have the resources (as in personnel) to even determine who hung around with whom unless they had run up against the Justice system.

We now know anything and everything about everybody is available within minutes and if it's not on some free public site it's readily available on any number of paid-for services. How reliable that information is is questionable because no one has any authority to restrict the collection or sale of it.

We also know that if someone in the "government" gets interested enough, a list of anyone who has communicated with the Bowdens via phone or email can be readily put together.

[ashlynne39]

So, an interesting turn of events, I've been invited to a social gathering where these folks will also be.

[notorial dissent]

Hopefully, either the food, drinks, or at least some of the guests will interesting and worthwhile, otherwise, what's the point in going?

[Lambkin]

Perhaps they need a copy of this

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Newsroom/IRS-Rel ... -Lead-List

[ashlynne39]

Hopefully, either the food, drinks, or at least some of the guests will interesting and worthwhile, otherwise, what's the point in going?

Long story, but bottom line is that I am going to be a guest at the hosts home during that time. It's a church social and they will be there.

[notorial dissent]

Ah, well at least hopefully some part of the first part of my statement will be true. Best wishes.

[ashlynne39]

I met Mr and Mrs Bowden a few weeks ago. They were quiet and reserved, very polite and didn't talk at all about their tax or sovereign beliefs. I didn't spend much time talking to them but the host told me they always act that way and have never brought up any of that, though everyone knows he went to jail.

[Famspear]

I met Mr and Mrs Bowden a few weeks ago. They were quiet and reserved, very polite and didn't talk at all about their tax or sovereign beliefs. I didn't spend much time talking to them but the host told me they always act that way and have never brought up any of that, though everyone knows he went to jail.

I just checked the records of the Texas Dental Board, and his license was terminated in August 2008. I wonder what he's been doing after his release from prison.

[ashlynne39]

I met Mr and Mrs Bowden a few weeks ago. They were quiet and reserved, very polite and didn't talk at all about their tax or sovereign beliefs. I didn't spend much time talking to them but the host told me they always act that way and have never brought up any of that, though everyone knows he went to jail.

I just checked the records of the Texas Dental Board, and his license was terminated in August 2008. I wonder what he's been doing after his release from prison.

My source of info has told me that in prison they had him working with either car repair or metal works (I can't remember which) and I think that he has picked up that trade either part time for pay or else for free for members of his church now that he's out of prison. I will have to double check that with my source. I do know that they have downsized their life quite a bit also, including moving from a large home into a much smaller townhome.

[.]

Huh. The guy is 70 or will be this year.

He practices dentistry (apparently without incident) for 22 years and then starts to throw it all away in '92 over a bunch of tax/sovrun nonsense (which came first, the chicken or the egg?) Ending in prison, owing 1.5 mill to Uncle Sugar and losing his dental license.

Not sure why Texas would yank a dental license for non-violent financial crimes other than perhaps the catch-all "moral turpitude," but, he does appear to be a little on the bonkers side, so maybe that's for the best. My God! He might take out his frustrations by doing an unnecessary three-surface restoration when two surfaces would have been sufficient!

Now, he does car repair or metalwork. Or something. What a strange descent into what seems to be utter madness and penury by someone who is obviously well-educated and quiet, polite and otherwise seemingly sane to this day.

[Fmotlgroupie]

It's definitely a sad story, but it sounds like they're managing to move forward after all the Sovrun ugliness. Not an inexpensive lesson in wisdom, but perhaps a worthwhile one.

As to the dental licence, I agree that it seems pretty harsh to revoke a licence for tax problems, but perhaps he did some other foolish stuff about the same time as he got swept up by this stuff? No way to say, really.

[Dr. Caligari]

As to the dental licence, I agree that it seems pretty harsh to revoke a licence for tax problems, but perhaps he did some other foolish stuff about the same time as he got swept up by this stuff? No way to say, really.

The collateral consequences of a criminal tax conviction vary from state to state, and I have never looked at the Texas statute, but I do know that some states revoke all professional licences for a conviction of a "felony involving moral turpitude." Other states will give the licensee a hearing, but if he went to that hearing spouting Sovereign Citizen nonsense, that might have persuaded the Board that he can't be trusted to follow the laws governing dentists. (Dentists can, after all, prescribe controlled substances.)

[Famspear]

I should clarify what I meant when I said his Texas dentist license was "terminated." The web site of the Texas State Board of Dental Examiners does not use that term; that was my own imprecise verbiage.

First, I note that the guilty verdict in his criminal case was rendered by the jury on July 31, 2008.

The on-line record at the Texas State Board indicates that his license was "cancelled". The web page also says that the license had an "expiration date" of August 1, 2008.

I suppose that it could have been that he just didn't renew the license.

Alternatively, it is possible that because of the conviction, the license might have been "cancelled" by the State Board some time after that, with the cancellation being effective on August 1, 2008, the day after the jury verdict.

I didn't mean for anyone to infer that I know why the license was "terminated" (to use my term), and I apologize if I gave the incorrect impression that I do know that.

[Famspear]

As to the dental licence, I agree that it seems pretty harsh to revoke a licence for tax problems, but perhaps he did some other foolish stuff about the same time as he got swept up by this stuff? No way to say, really.

The collateral consequences of a criminal tax conviction vary from state to state, and I have never looked at the Texas statute, but I do know that some states revoke all professional licences for a conviction of a "felony involving moral turpitude." Other states will give the licensee a hearing, but if he went to that hearing spouting Sovereign Citizen nonsense, that might have persuaded the Board that he can't be trusted to follow the laws governing dentists. (Dentists can, after all, prescribe controlled substances.)

The Texas dental board web site does include a link to various provisions of the Texas Occupations Code, including Chapter 53 of the Code. Subsection (b) of section 53.021 provides (in part):

. . . (b) A license holder's license shall be revoked on the license holder's imprisonment following a felony conviction......

[webhick]

If the state couldn't pull a dental license for a felony, I suspect we'd have a lot more Scrivellos drilling for grins and giggles.

[ashlynne39]

Huh. The guy is 70 or will be this year.

He practices dentistry (apparently without incident) for 22 years and then starts to throw it all away in '92 over a bunch of tax/sovrun nonsense (which came first, the chicken or the egg?) Ending in prison, owing 1.5 mill to Uncle Sugar and losing his dental license.

Not sure why Texas would yank a dental license for non-violent financial crimes other than perhaps the catch-all "moral turpitude," but, he does appear to be a little on the bonkers side, so maybe that's for the best. My God! He might take out his frustrations by doing an unnecessary three-surface restoration when two surfaces would have been sufficient!

Now, he does car repair or metalwork. Or something. What a strange descent into what seems to be utter madness and penury by someone who is obviously well-educated and quiet, polite and otherwise seemingly sane to this day.

My understanding is that he turned in his license or just didn't renew it. My source wasn't 100% sure about that.