Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

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arayder
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by arayder »

Jeffrey wrote: [*]Dean threatens to shoot cops dead "the next time"
[*]Clearly heard about Bourque since he adds "I'm surprised more of them aren't dropping dead".
[*]A disturbing insight into the Clifford's mindset when they say that cops are corporations and therefore "cannot fear for their life".
These two really do a good job of talking themselves into believing freeman ideology. All the jive about the cops, the courts, the judges and public servants being lazy, stupid and corrupt is a mildly entertaining look into a cult.

But, when these two start talking themselves into blowing the heads off cops, we need to take notice.

Coming on the heels of Menard's most recent threats to arm C3PO's, this is troubling.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by JamesVincent »

If any of you have seen the movie "Supertroopers" the Brothers Clifford remind me of the pothead in the passenger seat during the opening chase. You know, the one who says " Man, I was getting ready to pull out my 9 and put a cap in that pigs ass." Then when the troopers come back he's yelling at the driver to pull over even further off the road. There's a technical term for people like that. It is: Internet Rambo, someone who runs their mouth when theres no one actually around to introduce their teeth to their stomach, the hard way.

If you haven't seen the movie... what are you waiting for?
Disciple of the cross and champion in suffering
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Make way, the shepherd of fire

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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by arayder »

In the past Freemen have cried foul when I have talked about their practice of dehumanizing the police and warned that such talk is the first step toward cop killing. I have told freemen time and again that in the course of history such dehumanization is often a prelude to violence.

Telling jokes about Africa Americans in the U.S. made it easier for hate groups to lynch them. Cartoons depicting Jews as rats made is easier for Nazis to stick them in ovens.

While it is certainly true that the purveyors of such dehumanization are often not the ones who commit the violent act, I believe they enable that violence.

In the recorded conversation we hear the Cliffords fantasizing about blowing the heads off cops, who Dean calls "lawless f*cking piece[s] of shit". Then these two actually go so far as to say that cops aren't men and can't fear for their lives because they are "corporations walking around with guns".

I see a sick, evil turn in freemanary.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Burnaby49 »

I just deleted my last post. I'd asked for a link to the latest Dean video but, reviewing my post, I'd screwed it up and I could barely understand it myself. However better minds than mine figured it out and I was sent the link in any case and I've listened to some of it. I found a very early bit intriguing. Dean is sorting the wheat from the chaff, the fair weather friends and "idiots" from the solid supporters and, at 2:08, he makes this comment
For every 20 or so idiots that I meet you meet that, like, one really good guy, solid. People like Allan and Bruce and all these guys are in that catagory.


Allan and Bruce? Could they be Allan Curle and Bruce Johnson, just sentenced in Ontario on Poriskyite tax evasion charges? They are written up here;


viewtopic.php?f=50&t=9631

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10060

Seems very likely. If so Dean is getting pretty desperate extolling the virtues of fellow Freemen who, following his lead, have end up with criminal convictions, big fines, and jail terms. Maybe Dean doesn't know about it yet. He should be reading my postings.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
notorial dissent
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by notorial dissent »

Barnaby, what I think you're looking for is that he's separating the gullible thralls with money from the possible trouble makers, doesn't want those nay sayers cutting in to his grift it would seem. Certainly looks like it at any rate
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

Burnaby49 wrote:... I found a very early bit intriguing. Dean is sorting the wheat from the chaff, the fair weather friends and "idiots" from the solid supporters and, at 2:08, he makes this comment
For every 20 or so idiots that I meet you meet that, like, one really good guy, solid. People like Allan and Bruce and all these guys are in that catagory.


Allan and Bruce? Could they be Allan Curle and Bruce Johnson, just sentenced in Ontario on Poriskyite tax evasion charges? ...

Seems very likely. ...
Incarceration for OPCA activities - the mark of excellence. With a cadre such as these mountains can be moved.

SMS Möwe
That’s you and your crew, Mr. Hilfskreuzer. You’re just like a vampire, you must feel quite good about while the blood is dripping down from your lips onto the page or the typing, uhm keyboard there... [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMoUnUiDqg at 11:25]
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by arayder »

Hilfskreuzer Möwe wrote: Incarceration for OPCA activities - the mark of excellence. With a cadre such as these mountains can be moved.

SMS Möwe

It seems getting yourself arrested, jailed and convicted has become a badge of commitment in the freeman subculture. Spending days, weeks or months in the pokey over a speeding ticket, or an unpaid tax bill allows the freeman in question, often otherwise dismissed by the larger society, to gain credibility with his peers.

The new jail time requirement for knighthood in the freeman cult has left behind keyboard and video camera warriors like Robert Menard.
notorial dissent
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by notorial dissent »

I guess it is one way of showing accomplishment, but only in that milieu would it be considered anything positive, or an accomplishment, but when you're severely reality challenged that seems to be what happens. I guess when you really can't do anything that amounts to anything that you grab at straws and what looks like forward motion. The delusion is what keeps the movement alive I guess.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Jeffrey »

So uh, is Dean married?
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Jeffrey »

Heads up. Update 13 is out.

Not much actual content, mostly him complaining about Meads v. Meads and that the jail guards laughed at his letter to Putin.

Dean also appears to quote a non-existant line of Meads v. Meads.
notorial dissent
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by notorial dissent »

Poor bunny, best get used to it, being laughed at is about all he has left in life at this point.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

Jeffrey wrote:... Dean also appears to quote a non-existant line of Meads v. Meads.
Dean seems to be having a problem with that. In Update #12 he insisted that on the first page of the judgment it states that Mr. Meads (sorry, Mr. :::Meads::) is a taxpayer which, of course, it does not.

But then again, Dean does seem to have a vivid imagination.

And now we have two strawmen! The one created by the state, which is the only way state actors can control or have authority over Dean the Dude, but instead Dean the Dude can create his own personal strawman - and no one can control that. Dean has that right because of international treaties.

And that's why he's spent seven months in detention.

Just a few more lies. Dean at 14:00 claims he was refused the right to appear in the Federal Court for when his lawsuit there was struck out. Unfortunately for Dean that is a lie. There never was a hearing, instead the matter was addressed on documentation alone:
Order dated 16-MAY-2014 rendered by Roger Lafrenière, Esq., Prothonotary Matter considered without personal appearance The Court's decision is with regard to Motion in writing Doc. No. 3 Result: granted This Court Orders that: 1. The Statement of Claim is struck out, without leave to amend. 2. Costs of the motion, hereby fixed in the amount of $400. 00, inclusive of disbursements and taxes, shall be paid by the Plaintiff to the Attorney General of Canada. Filed on 16-MAY-2014 certified copies sent to parties Transmittal Letters placed on file. entered in J. & O. Book, volume 1230 page(s) 343 - 346 Final Decision
And Dean did not choose to submit a written response.

Or then at about 15:00 Dean begins complaining that he has a hearing scheduled in August where the charges are being advanced by the Federal Crown Prosecution Service. But ... didn't Dean a few weeks ago assure us those charges were dropped? How odd!

But yes, the best is at 19:30 when Dean cites Meads v. Meads. As Jeffrey observed, Dean is just simply lying to his brother and his customer base as a whole:
O.K. this is the very front page of Meads v. Meads, again you don’t need to look further than Meads v. Meads, you wait three seconds I’m going to get it, I’m going to read the money line right on the beginning of the front page … Doesn’t take me long, so I was obviously served a copy of this because this is their fuckin’ book of authorities, Meads v. Meads, you open up the front page here and you read the very fuckin’ front part of the decision, by this uhhh… Justice fuckin’ Rooke or whatever his name is here ok, it says right here. I got it underlined:
"Taxpayer did not have personal identity separate from any corporate identity which affected his liability for tax and other legal purposes and documents proffered to contrary were ineffective.”
That’s the only line that you need to read in Meads v. Meads, it’s on the front fuckin’ page.
But that's not anywhere in the first paragraphs (http://canlii.ca/t/fsvjq):
Where there is no common power, there is no law, where no law, no injustice.
Force, and fraud, are in war the two cardinal virtues.

...

The laws are of no power to protect them, without a sword in the hands of a man, or men, to cause those laws to be put in execution.

...

And law was brought into the world for nothing else but to limit the natural liberty of particular men in such manner as they might not hurt, but assist one another, and join together against a common enemy.


Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan (Forgotten Books, 2008), at pp. 87, 147, 184

I. Introduction to Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Argument [“OPCA”] Litigants

[1] This Court has developed a new awareness and understanding of a category of vexatious litigant. As we shall see, while there is often a lack of homogeneity, and some individuals or groups have no name or special identity, they (by their own admission or by descriptions given by others) often fall into the following descriptions: Detaxers; Freemen or Freemen-on-the-Land; Sovereign Men or Sovereign Citizens; Church of the Ecumenical Redemption International (CERI); Moorish Law; and other labels - there is no closed list. In the absence of a better moniker, I have collectively labelled them as Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Argument litigants [“OPCA litigants”], to functionally define them collectively for what they literally are. These persons employ a collection of techniques and arguments promoted and sold by ‘gurus’ (as hereafter defined) to disrupt court operations and to attempt to frustrate the legal rights of governments, corporations, and individuals.

[2] Over a decade of reported cases have proven that the individual concepts advanced by OPCA litigants are invalid. What remains is to categorize these schemes and concepts, identify global defects to simplify future response to variations of identified and invalid OPCA themes, and develop court procedures and sanctions for persons who adopt and advance these vexatious litigation strategies.

[3] One participant in this matter, the Respondent Dennis Larry Meads, appears to be a sophisticated and educated person, but is also an OPCA litigant. One of the purposes of these Reasons is, through this litigant, to uncover, expose, collate, and publish the tactics employed by the OPCA community, as a part of a process to eradicate the growing abuse that these litigants direct towards the justice and legal system we otherwise enjoy in Alberta and across Canada. I will respond on a point-by-point basis to the broad spectrum of OPCA schemes, concepts, and arguments advanced in this action by Mr. Meads.

[4] OPCA litigants do not express any stereotypic beliefs other than a general rejection of court and state authority; nor do they fall into any common social or professional association. Arguments and claims of this nature emerge in all kinds of legal proceedings and all levels of Courts and tribunals. This group is unified by:
  • 1. a characteristic set of strategies (somewhat different by group) that they employ,

    2. specific but irrelevant formalities and language which they appear to believe are (or portray as) significant, and

    3. the commercial sources from which their ideas and materials originate.

This category of litigant shares one other critical characteristic: they will only honour state, regulatory, contract, family, fiduciary, equitable, and criminal obligations if they feel like it. And typically, they don’t.

[5] The Meads case illustrates many characteristic features of OPCA materials, in court conduct, and litigation strategies. These Reasons will, therefore, explain my June 8, 2012 decision and provide analysis and reasoning that is available for reference and application to other similar proceedings.

[6] Naturally, my conclusions are important for these parties. However, they also are intended to assist others, who have been taken in/duped by gurus, to realize that these practices are entirely ineffective; to empower opposing parties and their counsel to take action; and as a warning to gurus that the Court will not tolerate their misconduct.

[7] As a preliminary note, I will throughout these Reasons refer to persons by their ‘normal’ names, except to illustrate various OPCA motifs and concepts. OPCA litigants frequently adopt unusual variations on personal names, for example adding irrelevant punctuation, or using unusual capital and lower case character combinations. While OPCA litigants and their gurus put special significance on these alternative nomenclature forms, these are ineffectual in law and are meaningless paper masks. Therefore, in these Reasons, I will omit spurious name forms, titles, punctuation and the like.
Did Dean get the wrong page? Well, the word "taxpayer" appears at paras. 89, 319, 343, 346, 365, 390, 422, 441, 561, and 562, but never as a part of the passage Dean "had underlined" and then read.

Did Dean get confused and read from a different judgment? Well, doesn't look like it because that sentence (or similar sentences) does not appear in any CanLII database judgment.

In fact, a 'Google' search does not detect that in any Internet document, nor anything even similar to that sentence.

So ... it's a lie. But it's such a stupid one. Many of Dean's other lies have required investigation - you need to see court records for example to verify Dean was dishonest, or you need to compare different statements to identify inconsistencies. But this one is so stupid, so blatant. Almost all of his customers have heard of Meads v. Meads - many of them have likely read it. How can Dean possibly imagine any benefit to stating - to the public - in a recording - that he will rely on a line of text that is not in the judgment he plans to challenge?

Frankly, I'm pretty bewildered. This kind of make-believe is so obvious. Who could it possibly fool?

I'm wondering about Dean's mental health, if he has been reduced to this.

SMS Möwe
That’s you and your crew, Mr. Hilfskreuzer. You’re just like a vampire, you must feel quite good about while the blood is dripping down from your lips onto the page or the typing, uhm keyboard there... [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMoUnUiDqg at 11:25]
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Bill Lumbergh »

He's reading the headnote. CanLII doesn't do headnotes, which is why you can't see it. This is from the Carswell publication of Meads v. Meads:
Parties were involved in divorce proceedings — Taxpayer refused to produce documents regarding income for several reasons related to incorrect legal theories regarding income tax, and provided several unorthodox documents to court — Taxpayer's spouse brought application for case management and for orders regarding documentation — Application granted — Taxpayer was Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Argument litigant, and his conduct was potentially vexatious and in contempt of court — Conduct of taxpayer warranted close judicial supervision through case management — Taxpayer ordered to provide routine information such as tax returns and statement of earnings — Several improper documents proffered by taxpayer were declared invalid — Existence of coat of arms in court room did not mean that proceedings involved admiralty law and did not affect court's jurisdiction — Taxpayer did not have personal identity separate from any corporate identity which affected his liability for tax and other legal purposes, and documents proffered to contrary were ineffective — Taxpayer was not entitled to foist documents on court or others in order to create unilateral legal obligations, and purported agreements were not binding — Taxpayer could not claim trade-mark or copyright interest in his name or impose penalties on others for use of his name, and taxpayer's intellectual property scheme had overwhelmingly juvenile character — No secret government account existed from which taxpayer could force payments of his family law obligations — Taxpayer could not avail himself of money for nothing scheme.
Headnotes, of course, are a summary of the decision and not the judicial ruling itself. They are not written by the court but by the employees of the reporting service.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

Thanks Bill.

Wow. That is one shitty headnote.

I don't have much regard for the eCarswell Canada editors, but that is really, really shitty, even by their "standards".

Taxpayer?! Meads is a family law dispute! Referring to :::Dennis-Larry:: of the ::Meads:: Family::: as a "taxpayer" is like having a headnote on a murder trial judgment identify the alleged murderer as a "taxpayer".
Taxpayer accused of stabbing other taxpayer to death. Post-homicide conduct by taxpayer (who is still alive) must be interpreted as incriminating only if no alternative and exculpatory inference may be drawn from post-offence taxpayer conduct. Taxpayer stabbing premeditated - result: first degree taxpayer murder.
Income tax isn't even in dispute in Meads! And the theories advanced by :::Dennis-Larry:: go globally to state and court jurisdiction, not just income tax.

There's a reason I believe that it's professionally sloppy to ever review a judgment headnote prior to reading the body of the judgment as a whole. I only turn to a headnote when the judgment is so fragmentary that context may only be identified in that manner.

I actually feel a little sorry for Dean. Not too sorry, of course, someone who claims to have his decades of legal knowledge should know the significance of a headnote (zero) but ...

... that's one really, really, really shitty headnote. Thanks eCarswell Canada!

(Only one of the many reasons I avoid that database service like genital lice.)

SMS Möwe
That’s you and your crew, Mr. Hilfskreuzer. You’re just like a vampire, you must feel quite good about while the blood is dripping down from your lips onto the page or the typing, uhm keyboard there... [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMoUnUiDqg at 11:25]
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by notorial dissent »

Hilfskreuzer Möwe wrote:But then again, Dean does seem to have a vivid imagination.
Or is it just reading comprehension problems?

And now we have two strawmen! The one created by the state, which is the only way state actors can control or have authority over Dean the Dude, but instead Dean the Dude can create his own personal strawman - and no one can control that. Dean has that right because of international treaties.
Sure he does, and the UN will enforce it for him, or maybe it's Putin this week.

And that's why he's spent seven months in detention.
At least that's his explanation this week and he's stickign to it until he has another brain fart.

So ... it's a lie. But it's such a stupid one. Many of Dean's other lies have required investigation - you need to see court records for example to verify Dean was dishonest, or you need to compare different statements to identify inconsistencies. But this one is so stupid, so blatant. Almost all of his customers have heard of Meads v. Meads - many of them have likely read it. How can Dean possibly imagine any benefit to stating - to the public - in a recording - that he will rely on a line of text that is not in the judgment he plans to challenge?
They've believed all of his lies up until now, why should they break a paying trend?

Frankly, I'm pretty bewildered. This kind of make-believe is so obvious. Who could it possibly fool?
Well, probably most of Dean's followers, they've been swallowing it whole so far, why should they change?

I think the simplest statement here is that Dean lies, about everything, it has just become real obvious at this point since it is all being preserved for posterity and he can't be continually rewriting his stories like he has been previously.


I'm wondering about Dean's mental health, if he has been reduced to this.
This I won't argue with you, I think the fantasy is growing a bit thin even foir him, problem is, he is going to have to keep on living it once he gets convicted since I don't think he's walking out on this one, and at this point, I can't see any judge being dumb enough to grant him bail, so jail is his new home whether he likes it or not.

SMS Möwe
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by arayder »

notorial dissent wrote:
I'm wondering about Dean's mental health, if he has been reduced to this.
This I won't argue with you, I think the fantasy is growing a bit thin even foir him, problem is, he is going to have to keep on living it once he gets convicted since I don't think he's walking out on this one, and at this point, I can't see any judge being dumb enough to grant him bail, so jail is his new home whether he likes it or not.

SMS Möwe

Dean seems frantic. He talks almost without interruption for most of the 36 minute recording. He's unable to recall what he has talked about and repeats himself quite a few times.

His filings and freeman paperwork, by Dean's own report, have been submitted at an equally frantic pace. Then, like a little Napoleon, he spews out several hurried, fanciful marching orders for his organization.

Dean doesn't seem to be in a even marginally healthy place right now. He says the guards are laughing at him and the judges are ignoring him. That's not good for a guy who hangs his ego on being the feared, muscular freeman.

Then there's the problem, which Dean glosses over, that the Dean empire is crumbling.

True to form Dean continues his practice of belittling every authority figure he encounters, including calling a female court official, who calls "a c*nt", treating her as though she is not a human being.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Jeffrey »

Darn, it would have been more interesting if Dean was actually hallucinating fake lines from court decisions. This seems to suggest that despite having huge amounts of spare time to read while in jail, Dean has not taken the time to read the case law that's being thrown at him and which his conviction will be based on.

Probably shouldn't be surprising. Dean did the same thing when Meads came out, he read a few lines, said it was "puke" and continued on his merry little way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx4nqNuH2QE
I doubt Dean Clifford will have his drugs and firearms charges heard for ... mmm ... another year or so?
Jesus please tell me you're joking. This is fun to observe but even I'm getting antsy.

In fact Menard and NWO are already posturing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpfrIOcaX8g

Edit: It would be great to see if we can get our hands on the motion that got Dean so upset (the one that cites Meads etc). Sounds like they had fun writing that one.
Last edited by Jeffrey on Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
notorial dissent
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by notorial dissent »

It didn't mention him by name, and he didn't agree with any of it, and the rules don't apply to him anyway, so of course, "it was puke".

However,...... I think he will eventually find to the contrary, that it does!!!!
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Jeffrey »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RPxZ3gkMvw

Someone posted an interesting video concerning Dean and Kevin Annett's collaboration.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Burnaby49 »

Jeffrey wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RPxZ3gkMvw

Someone posted an interesting video concerning Dean and Kevin Annett's collaboration.
If they plan to go to the Vatican to arrest the pope they'd better be prepared to deal with the Swiss guards. They might wear goofy outfits;

Image


but professionally they are pretty hard-assed types.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs