"Your Birth Certificate is worth $650,000"

[DailyPlanet]

"Your Birth Certificate is worth $650,000"

That's what you need to know, along with other "useful" information:

"How does a birth certificate have value?

It is not the birth certificate, it is the bond on a commercial entity. At the time of registration, the Corporation of the United States, through its Treasury Department creates a bond. This bond is also known by the human's name in capital letters. A strawman is created to be used in all legal, and financial matters. More on this later.

The bond number itself can be found on the actual Certificate of Live Birth, on the back of the document. Once the county birth record is received by the federal government, the bond is created...

There have been some prints of Individual Master Files (IMF) that show the bond placed on the newborn having a value of around $650.000 dollars. There is a catch however. Any profit which is created by the investment during the life, right up to the death of the individual, of every living, breathing, male or female, remains the property of the state. All property is considered to be owned by the Corporation of the United States. This is easily seen by the seizures without Due Process which occur daily."
==
> http://reality-bytes.hubpages.com/hub/R ... r-Strawman

Such a wonderful and informative website, which does not tell you...

+ How is the $650K value determined?
+ Who "pays" that valuation, and who "receives" it?
+ How does whomever paid that handsome sum, get a return on their investment?

I think a few people would like to know the answers to these questions. And anyone who truly understood this subject would have delved into those very important questions too, don't you think?

[Pottapaug1938]

These "questions" deserve no answers. There are so many blatant factual errors in the questions and accompanying statements that anyone who accepts them is either too stupid and/or too gullible to be susceptible to the facts.

[DailyPlanet]

Maybe you missed the irony...
Does this make it more clear for you ?:
... a "wonderful and informative" website

The really shocking thing, is how many people believe in the Birth Certificate mythology, and are doing things like Building Websites to promote it

[fortinbras]

The birth certificate as a financial instrument is the foundation tenet of Redemptionism. An entire mythos has developed over the birth certificate, including a very fake history of the birth certificate as an official document.

[DailyPlanet]

Yes.
I suppose the mythology grew up because one of the companies that prints Birth Certificates (someone has to do it!) also has the temerity to print stock certificates or bank notes.

If a printer of comic books did it, then the clowns who believe in these myths would all claim to be Super Heroes, and accuse the government of using Kryptonite against them. (Whoops! I might just have started a new myth.)

But actually, I think this Myth needs some good clear arguments to kill it, and keep it from spreading. Can we pull the arguments together on this thread?

Then we can refer the nutters here, to have their silly ideas confronted with evidence that lays the myths to rest.

[rogfulton]

Then we can refer the nutters here, to have their silly ideas confronted with evidence that lays the myths to rest.

I think you give the nutters too much credit.

[fortinbras]

In ancient times (i.e. around the time I was born) they were still using ordinary plain paper forms for birth certificates, but gradually it dawned on the authorities that fugitives, smugglers, and other pillars of the community were counterfeiting birth certs with phony information. To discourage that, the various state health departments made a point of getting outfits like the American Banknote Company to work up elegant filigreed birth certificates that would be resistent to fabrication or alteration (in the age before color copiers and photoshop). As these same form-makers had already demonstrated their expertise in churning out money order forms, stock certificates (the NYSE requires a human face in the artwork as a particular anti-counterfeiting feature), and even paper currency for Third World countries, they were the perfect choice for birth certificate forms. But time and technology march on. In 2004, with all the talk about illegal immigrants and terrorists (and smugglers and fugitives) Congress enacted, as part of the new anti-terrorism act, a requirement that all states use "safety paper" for their birth certificates and similar documents of identity or citizenship; this means that, although the form, with or without personal data, might be printed out from a computer instead of some banknote printing press, it must be printed on paper with an anti-falsification background pattern, which is supposedly contrived to frustrate attempts to erase and rewrite and also frustrate attempts to copy or photoshop.

Obama's birth certificates, both long and short forms, show this, having been printed out since 2004, because the Hawaii Health Dept uses a security paper with a pattern known as Green Basket-Weave. The pattern is deliberately designed to make computerized images or photocopies of the certificate generate anomalies, which is why all those birfers with the Junior G-Man badges get goofy results when they run the internet image of Obama's certificate through their photoshop or similar software.

[DailyPlanet]

Some (who may visit here), are not nutters.

Just confused and misinformed.
The layers of misinformation are so thick and widespread, it is not surprising that some find themselves in that state.

One of the things that led me to THIS site, was the research I was doing to resolve my confusion.

Perhaps others can comment on their journeys. The Open-minded ones, who research both sides, may have some interesting tales to tell.

[Jeffrey]

I could crank out a video compilation of different Gurus mentioning their own estimate of how much the birth certificate is worth. Might be a good tool of persuasion to show the different Gurus giving estimates ranging from $300,000 in the case of Winston Shrout to $6 billion in the case of Santos Bonacci. Both figures of course, both taken out of their ass.

[Pottapaug1938]

Maybe you missed the irony...
Does this make it more clear for you ?:
... a "wonderful and informative" website

The really shocking thing, is how many people believe in the Birth Certificate mythology, and are doing things like Building Websites to promote it

I didn't miss the irony. I was addressing the comment about "a few people would like to know the answers to these questions".

[DailyPlanet]

Santos has probably taken the number from Heather Gibberish-Speaker.

Have you seen the Q&A that Heather did last year with the banker Henry?
It was clear that she had invented the figure, and had zero justification for it.

Per capita wealth on our planet is something like US$50,000 or less - and about one ounce of gold per person, so you have to wonder where these crazy figures come from. (Someone's backside, is as good an explanation as any I have heard.)

[Jeffrey]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_dist ... per_capita

Wealth per is ~$26,000 per person. GDP per capita is ~$10,000. The numbers these guys come up with are so detached from reality it is almost offensive.

I don't recall the interview with the banker.

[AndyK]

To Daily Planet (and any other drive-by readers):

The concept of a birth certificate valued at any amount is central to the Redemption / Straw Man theory.

It persists because, despite of any legitimate basis in reality AND many instances of it being trod into the ground, the suckers want to believe in it.

Remember, we're dealing with people who are not failures or losers. No -- the system is out to get them.

It's not that they can't get a job because they have a 6th grade education; it's because someone sold their job to an illegal immigrant.

It's not because they lost their wife / children due to spousal / domestic abuse; it's because the system needs to get more children as slaves.

This can go on into much more pathetic detail, but there's no point.

The people who buy into the Redemption theory are clutching at straws. The promoters of these theories are charging the losers and throwing them concrete life preservefrs.

The information refuting these inane theories has been available for years. The true believers need to believe it so they ignore all the facts.

[ontobserver]

One of the challenges with debunking many of the FMOTL theories is the fact that they are based on fictional documents, agreements, etc. Those who believe in these theories do so without requiring any proof because they WANT to believe. If anyone does request proof of these fictional documents/agreements, they are told that the documents are "secret" or the agreements were secretly made between "corrupt" government officials.

The "clever" part about theories based on "secret agreements" and fictional documents is that they are not refutable. If the theory were true, it could be proven by demonstrating that the document exists, while it is impossible to prove that it doesn't...you would have to search every possible place that the document could be kept without finding it, and be able to demonstrate that it hadn't been relocated while you were searching.

Unfortunately, the believers aren't asking for proof before they blindly put their faith in these fictional theories. Documenting the origins of the fictional theories is a step to help those who at least have questions.

[DailyPlanet]

Andy,
You are conflating a number of issues there.
Some folks may simply want to know, what's the best "pinprick" of information,
with which to attack the notions that :

+ Birth certificates have value as financial instruments (to someone)
+ Huge amounts of money are held (by someone) on behalf of all the people of the planet,
+ The BC is the means to access and control that "secret" value

Of course, this is nutty. And my method of attack is to show that the amounts tossed around by the proponents of this crazy view have no basis in reality.

[Fmotlgroupie]

I could crank out a video compilation of different Gurus mentioning their own estimate of how much the birth certificate is worth. Might be a good tool of persuasion to show the different Gurus giving estimates ranging from $300,000 in the case of Winston Shrout to $6 billion in the case of Santos Bonacci. Both figures of course, both taken out of their ass.

Yes, the real news here is that the birth bond bubble has burst, and birth certificates are back under $1 million. Finally the young illuminati who had been priced out of the market can finally afford a birth certificate of their own, and really live the illuminati dream!

On a more serious note, I don't know how to disprove this "theory": it's so far out in "not even wrong" territory that I can't think of any factual questions associated to it - it's just pure fantasy. All I can think of us the logical question "how does any of this make any sense whatsoever? Who on earth would benefit in any way from this outlandish idea? I mean seriously!"

[DailyPlanet]

Here's WHAT THEY BELIEVE:

The New Age Nutters ("NAN's") believe that there is a huge amount of money sitting in accounts that are meant for "the benefit of humanity". The numbers that get tossed around range from Trillions to Quadrillions to more than that. Heather has said that each person's "Value" is $6 Billion or more. In fact, at the end of last year, some of Heather's cult were approaching their banks trying to access a portion of that value:

> see: Accessing Your Value / Chasing the Banks with docs:
http://z13.invisionfree.com/HARD_Qs/ind ... pic=9&st=0

Of course, nothing came of it.

But the NANs have not given up, they still think that the value is out there, just waiting for someone ("the M1") to authorise the release of the Collateral accounts.

The $650K amount (or whatever it is), presumably represents one individual's share of that vast hidden wealth. They think that when they go to the bank, and ask for a loan, then monies are released to the bank from that hidden wealth, and that is where the loan proceeds come from. They say "the banks do not loan you the money, they simply access YOUR value."

Here's Paradoxman316, Ron Van Dyke, also known as : the "Real Man of La Mancha"* discussing how he sees banking operating:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wQTV8TcWUo

Of course, it is all nonsense. The reality is that each American has a share of their country's vast debts:

"Every American citizen—man, woman, and child—owes over $55,000 as his or her share of the debt. That’s more than the median annual household income in the US! And with $127 trillion in unfunded liabilities, America’s—and your—financial future looks bleak indeed."
==
> http://www.caseyresearch.com/7-steps-to ... t-yourself

They know, somehow, that these amounts will never be paid, and whatever promises the US government has made, will be defaulted upon eventually. Perhaps it is people's fantasies which have created this wonderful prosperous alternative of Collateral Accounts, Prosperity Funds, and valuable BC's.
=== ===

*The Real Man of La Mancha thread:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9950

[DailyPlanet]

Jean Haines has picked up on the Birth Certificate nonsense too - in her July 4th article:

"In the US, birth certificates aren’t really birth certificates but are securities that are traded in the stock market. In other words, your US birth certificate is like a bond that is used to represent you as a “product” of the United States Incorporated. The people who “own” your birth certificate makes millions of dollars by selling and trading it in the stock market. To these people you are a product, which is even worse than a slave. Now, that is messed up!

The US government agency that is responsible for turning your birth certificate into a security is the Depository Trust Company (DTC). The DTC securitizes your birth certificate by giving it a cusip number and then selling it to the Federal Reserve (Fed). The Fed then uses your birth certificate as collateral for the US national debt. Through this deception, the US federal government can legally claim you as their property and everything that you produce is technically theirs until you claim your rights and learn how to fight the system. Since you now have a general idea of what it truly means to be a citizen of the United States Inc., do you still think that you live in a free country?"

==

> http://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2014/07/0 ... d-liberty/

"The people who “own” your birth certificate makes millions of dollars by selling and trading it in the stock market."

Really? How?
Because: They do not have real prices and they do not trade.

With no liquidity, how do you "make money trading them"? And who is on the other side of the profitable trade, bearing the supposed loss? (Remember: trading is a zero sum game: for every winner, there must be a loser.)

Do the people claiming this nonsense know that it COSTS MONEY to get a stock exchange listing?

Some funds - with Cusip ID-numbers similar to birth certificates do it, so they can be sold (in direct transactions) to investors who - by law - can only buy securities that are formally "listed" on an exchange. By accident there are so many funds like this, that some of the funds have Cusip ID numbers look like BC numbers. But they are not the same thing. Have you bothered to look for your own BC? I bet you will not find it. If you can, you will probably trace it back to a security listed in Dublin, or some such exchange, that has absolutely nothing to do with you or your birth certificate. (I bet that 99.9% of the people who read this stuff, never bother to check - but I am the sort who does check, and I hate being lied to! And I will blow the whistle, when I see an untruth too.)

Remember, the people who promote these silly ideas never do any actual research, and they rely on the strong possibility that you will not do any research either. Put a fork into this one, and probably half of the other ideas promoted by Russell Pine.

[Jeffrey]

The CUSIP number thing is worth discussing. Based on some rough Googling, CUSIP numbers are 9 digit alpha-numerical codes. US birth certificate serial numbers are 11 digits long, UK are 10 digits long, Canada is 12 digits long. So on that basic level the conspiracy theory doesn't work.

[DailyPlanet]

I think those promoting this idea, have a routine for trunication of BC numbers,
or some other excuse to "explain away" this inconvenient fact.

The big point in my mind is that 99.9% of the people who read these (unlikely) statements never bother to check, and are simply happy to repeat them as facts.

You can find DOZENS of videos on YouTube pushing this BC idea, and maybe only 1 or 2 which debunk it.

I am a genuine truth seeker. I agree with most of the debunking done on this website, and have contributed some of my own. But there are some areas, where people here have not done research, and are "debunking out of habit" - and personal research is needed if you want to get to the actual truth. "BC's as wealth" is one notion that does not stand up.