The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

D'Rok over at JREF spotted an interesting post on the World Freeman Society web forum,

• Site may close indefinitely: https://worldfreemansociety.org/forum/4 ... 0&start=12

The same message is also the forum's news item (https://worldfreemansociety.org/forum/a ... ment/id-24).

Apparently, the long-suffering operators of the WFS website, Peter, Patrick and Terr-y have reached the end of their rope. Patrick has already quit and appears to have run off to join up with the Grande Prairie squatters (viewtopic.php?f=47&t=9579). The other two? Well, it's been a full-time job, but without the satisfaction. Or the pay. Who's to blame? Freemen!

Hello people. After 6 years almost, I am packing it in. Can't do it any more. It's like p---ing in the wind.

I have tried to get people interested in running this site, but alas it's been an impossible job, I don't have the energy any more, and I feel there is really no one here who has the ability or will to carry this on.

It is not as simple as one may think, there is a lot of work involved in the back end here, and although there has been people here all the time helping, no one has stepped up to a possession where I feel comfortable enough to leave.

Thank you all for the generous donations, please cease with them now, as I do not think we can accept any more for the society or servers if we are not going to continue.

It's been a blast, mostly, and I hope you all understand the reasons behind the closing.

I could leave it in someone hands, but I feel it would be no more than a few weeks, or month or 2 before the place would be over run with spammers and trolls.

There simply isn't the manpower here to run the place, and the ones who ave been have lost their mojos. It costs time and money to be here full time to keep this place in order, I was not the only one who was a full timer. Patrick was as well, but I think he too has had enough, and, and , and... There is not point fooling anyone. To maintain a website and keep it in the top 250K websites globally is a hard job, which we have done for too long now.

At the beginning I said that this site, society was for all of you.

No one took it. No one saw this opportunity and no one took the bulls by the horns. You all just came along for the ride.

Well, it's been fun, but the old bull has s--- himself, and el torro can't be f---ed any more. Like I have said many times before. It's a full time job. A full time job is full time. When unpaid and even when you pay on top out of your own pocket to keep it going, makes the full time job a slave job, and it's s---. I, Patrick and a few others have been doing this slave work for too long, and it isn't working for us very well.

We had hoped that the Society by now would be big enough to sustain itself, but it isn't. We tried to bring in a subscriptions plan, but was responded with anger and annoyance at the idea that this place, a free forum would not be free.

Hmm, yeah, right. I get it. In a perfect Communist World, I wouldn't mind running a free website for free. Have we entered Global Communism yet? Have the Bolshevists finally won?

Anyway, 6 weeks and counting. It was 3 Months and counting and not a peep from those who I expected to 'bleat', so I must accept that 'Silence is Consent' and stay to the plan.

2014 you will all be free.

The cost to run the site on the VPS is not cheap. The cost of the templates, plug-ins and other premium software and licences, not cheap. The cost in time being here.... cheap as no one pays me. But in reality, it's a full time job. What is a full time job worth?

I made an offer to someone here, and they turned it down. I won't name names, as It's not worth it. Since the offer has been left unchallenged and or simply un anything, I feel rather saddened that those few who I had hoped would come to the table, are simply sitting there, maybe like they have bee working towards the end surreptitiously. I don't really know. They certainly don't feel like they need to show any responsibility, which is odd.

Never the less folk and members of the WFS. It's been an interesting ride, I am sorry it is most likely going to end, but with no one at the helm with any ideas, this place will die and awful death. That is the sad fact, a visionary needs to front the back end here, and I don't know anyone who is either open-minded enough, or technically minded enough not to break it.

So, come the end of 2013, the World Freeman Society website is most likely going to close if no miracle happens between now and then.

[Earnest language redacted.]

In a way it's a little sad - the response is a handful of comments by the surviving WFS members, most of which are simply incoherent or, at best, overzealous and illogical. It appears this is not just the forums but the entire worldfreemansociety.org website that is under threat, which includes the WFS online store of fine Menardian products. So if you want souvenirs of a perhaps soon to be forgotten age, you'ld better hurry! (Or you can just Goggle search and find most of them posted online, somewhere.)

And it'll cost me a research resource. That sucks...

It's been a long, slow decay. Menard himself has not posted on the forum a very long time. Membership has dropped, bit by bit. Some users have begged to have their posts deleted, as they were the subjects of criminal charges and their WFS information was being used against them.

Menard himself has commented less and less on his primary Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/robert.menard.52), and often his messages are either Freemanish copypasta or diatribes against persons on the JREF forums. That said, he today did offer this missive on the nature of money (https://www.facebook.com/robert.menard. ... 3063077777)

A note is 'legal tender' not because it is marked as such, but because if tendered and accepted payment is achieved and if refused the debt is extinguished by abandonment of the claim. In any event settlement is achieved.

Markings on a note stating 'This note is legal tender for a specific type of debt' may be deemed to be conclusive evidence of the note being legal tender for that specific type of debt. It does not however generate the status. It merely confirms it.

For a note to be deemed conclusively as not being legal tender, it must be marked as such.

Notes not marked as legal tender, may still in fact be legal tender, if they fulfil the function of payment, and refusal of them extinguishes the debt. If the note in question is a method of payment which is statutorily acknowledged, then they are arguably legal tender, even though not marked. It is the function not the label which defines what is or is not legal tender. Counterfeit money is marked as legal tender, though it certainly is not. The label follows the function.

This Note is legal tender for all debts public and private.

There is nothing to suggest that all notes which are legal tender must be suitable for debts both public and private. There is nothing which suggest that something which is legal tender for a public debt must also be legal tender for a private one, or vice versa. There is nothing to suggest that a specific specie of money marked thusly is the only form of legal tender.

It is entirely possible that there are other forms of payment, which though not marked as such are legal tender, but only for specific types of debts.

Are you confused? Well, so it seems are some others:

Darren Rooke
Notes in circulation are universally excepted as payment for they were created to represent an obligation to pay. All money in existence is evidence and means to be able to pay. Yes we could write out our own promises to pay. The note is money and is redeemable in products. My obligation is to earn that note and extinguish.

...

Phil Mainwaring
I do struggle with some of these concepts ... the common thread for me seems to be "Do the trading parties agree that the instruments and notes represent payment?" ... on a case by case basis

Others, like Our Lady of the House Collins (viewtopic.php?f=47&t=9593) (she apparently hasn't learned anything from being locked up in a psych ward for a week) point to underlying conspiracy!

Leigh OftheHouseof Collins
Payment is illegal and has been since 1933 when the bankrupycy occurred. There are many species of money. Read the Bill of Exchange Act. It' s all in there....they just dont want you to know....

...

MONEY IS DEBT

And then there are those obnoxious types:

Scott Duncan
Really? Where on the note does it say that?

Let's look at it:

THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER

THIS NOTE = THE F---ING FIAT NOTE ACTING AS "CURRENCY"

IS = It is what it is.

LEGAL = ACTS AND STATUTES WITH THE FORCE OF LAW ENACTED BY PARLIAMENT

TENDER = UNCONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE UPON USE

What Menard is doing (since he can't lie through omission) is the recursive "proof" argument, like the ever popular "The bible is true because it says so in the bible".

It's bulls---. Why?

BECAUSE HE'S USING ACCOUNTING AND LEGAL TERMS

DEBT
DISCHARGE
SETTLEMENT
ABANDONMENT

ALL F---ING LEGAL TERMS, AND FOR F--- SAKES, STOP WASTING YOUR TIME WITH THIS S----STAIN THAT IS ROBERT MENARD!

[Language redacted for the sensitive at heart.]

Rob responds to confusion, anger, surprise in his habitual manner - it could be a zen koan (or not):

Robert Menard
Knowledge does not require a point; argument does.

I wonder if Mr. Menard, self-declared "Director of the World Freeman Society", will descend from these lofty heights to assist his minions grinding in their website trenches. My bet? No.

SMS Möwe

[LordEd]

I suggested this on JREF: When worldfreemansociety.org expires, it would be hilarious if it was bought, parked, and auto-redirected visitors to the meads v meads canlii page.

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

I suggested this on JREF: When worldfreemansociety.org expires, it would be hilarious if it was bought, parked, and auto-redirected visitors to the meads v meads canlii page.

I can add little to that, except that it appears the original World Freeman Society website URL (http://www.worldfreemansociety.com) is also due to expire early in 2014. Appears iteration #1 was grabbed by squatters, and the poor Freemen had to move to '.org'.

Hey, Menard's old "www.thinkfree.ca" URL is also set to expire in January.

This could become a nasty hobby; scooping old Freeman web URLs.

SMS Möwe

[Lambkin]

If the site gets any traffic, you will need to use a domain name "drop catch" service to automatically register it when it expires. You will be competing against companies which buy up dead domains based on traffic in order to serve ads.

The convenient thing is that you can make a long list of possible targets and sign up to buy any that become available. I confess I have done it for a few well-known TP sites but no strikes so far.

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

Interesting post on the World Freeman Society forums:

• A Message to Goodman Pete: https://worldfreemansociety.org/forum/4 ... odman-pete

This message appears to re-post a locked message thread from the 'private' World Freeman Society forums:

Hello everyone,

I have a sad announcement to make. I can't afford the $140 per month anymore to pay for hosting the site on our VPS anymore. We moved to a VPS many years ago because the site was/is very busy and uses a great deal of resources. We moved off a shared hosting environment because it was not good enough.

However, I have been away now for almost a year, left Patrick in charge who has been here for a very long time.

He has done a stellar job considering there was no plan ever made here. We let this evolve into what it is, and unfortunately it wasn't a cash cow. It's running in deficit and no one is bailing us out. Shame we are not a Bank eh??

I left a year ago almost because my political views have changed somewhat and the 2 ideologies would clash somewhat if I were to remain here.

I don't want to land the blame on 1 person, like Patrick, because it isn't entirely all his fault.
There was Kent, who really screwed things up with his Tiki Monstrosity, then our AWOL LEADER ROB, who swans in and out when he needs something and the list is really endless, the names all becoming a blurrrrr.

The rest of you all are great people, and I hope you all have had fun here, learnt something and will be able to move on taking with you the knowledge you learnt.

If I have the money, this would not be an issue, but I need tyres for my truck, food in my belly, and this server costs a month more than a weeks rent. I simply cannot afford it anymore.

I am sorry, this is not up for debate. I will not surrender the domain or site to anyone. I made this offer a long time ago to a number of people and it has not gone well.

If anyone is to blame, then blame me, the owner, creator, as I am the only one who can really destroy it.

It's sad, but necessary.

Unless I win the Lottery in the next week or so, which I doubt, this site will cease to exist here sometime in August 2014.

Pete
Site owner.

So it seems the World Freeman Society website will soon be kaput. It's interesting to see the tone of "Goodman Pete's" message.

My suspicion is that "Kent" is "Kent Barrett", who formerly was very active with the Human Rights Defenders League in Canada, but now is a follower of Scott Duncan.

As a small observation, though there are persistent references in Canadian media sources that there are 30,000 Freemen-on-the-Land in Canada, it is wildly incongruous that a group of that size could not support the stated cost of the World Freeman Society website. Further, the posting activity on the website is quite limited. Even admitting that the Freeman/OPCA community has broad divides, I think the failure of this website to be self-sustaining is a clear illustration that the 30,000 figure is spurious.

My bet continues to be an order of magnitude less - and that is for all OPCA affiliates no matter their flavour: Freeman, Sovereign, Moor, Detaxer etc. And I'd be willing to go so far as to say 3000 is a very high estimate.

A further implication of this development is that it appears Freeman-on-the-Land affiliation is on the decline. As far as I am aware there are no sources for statistics on this point, but from our research here on Quatloos and anecdotal sources it seems to me that 'orthodox Freemanery' is dwindling, with instead an increase in prosperity programs such as the One People's Public Trust, Freedom Club Canada, and Gold Shield Alliance, along with the fragmentation of the OPCA affiliate community among new and old gurus such as David-Kevin: Lindsay, Chief Rock Sino General, Scott Duncan, Dean Clifford (though he's sinking fast too), Marcus the Serpent King, the Human Rights Defenders League in Canada (also sinking fast), "minister" Belanger of CERI, and many other smaller successors.

SMS Möwe

[Burnaby49]

If Canadian Freemanism goes belly up what am I going to do for retirement amusement? What will Meta do without a place to rant?

[notorial dissent]

Möwe, not to throw more cold water on an already guttering fire, but I think your re-estimate of FOTL'ers in still a magnitude off. I am sure there are still a handful of true FOTL'ers who are quietly living their lives without all the drama of their so called leaders and support crew, but I think the bulk of them are of the short term memory easily distracted variety who wander in and wander off, who fall madly passionately in love with the theories and then equally quickly wander off and on to other short term pursuits. The other community / communal limiting factor would seem to be that FOTL'ers in general all seem to be universally unemployed / under employed and perpetually broke and/or short of cash, which makes them unlikely and unreliable supporters of anything other than their own eating/smoking/drinking habits. Pete's plaint being evidence in chief.

[Arthur Rubin]

Not to make fun of those with concentration issues (which may include me), but, heard from a standup comic lately:

Having ADD is never having to say .... Oh, shiny!

[obadiah]

Not to make fun of those with concentration issues (which may include me), but, heard from a standup comic lately:

Having ADD is never having to say .... SQUIRREL!

FTFY

[arayder]

Interesting post on the World Freeman Society forums:

• A Message to Goodman Pete: https://worldfreemansociety.org/forum/4 ... odman-pete

This message appears to re-post a locked message thread from the 'private' World Freeman Society forums. . .

Sounds a little like the time Alex jumped ship at Dean's web site.

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

It appears that my suspicion that the "Kent" mentioned is "Kent Barrett" was correct.

Barrett has been posting a series of messages on his Facebook page which confirmed that was him. He seems rather annoyed at being blamed in this manner for what may have been an abortive attempt to create a Freeman-on-the-Land wiki:

• https://www.facebook.com/kent.barrett/p ... 1468593701
  
  https://www.facebook.com/kent.barrett/p ... 1479913984
  
  https://www.facebook.com/kent.barrett/p ... 5884984108
  
  https://www.facebook.com/kent.barrett/p ... 9054583346

No apparent progress on salvaging or continuing the website.

SMS Möwe

[arayder]

Interesting post on the World Freeman Society forums:

• A Message to Goodman Pete: https://worldfreemansociety.org/forum/4 ... odman-pete

This message appears to re-post a locked message thread from the 'private' World Freeman Society forums:

Hello everyone,

I have a sad announcement to make. I can't afford the $140 per month anymore to pay for hosting the site on our VPS anymore. We moved to a VPS many years ago because the site was/is very busy and uses a great deal of resources. We moved off a shared hosting environment because it was not good enough.

However, I have been away now for almost a year, left Patrick in charge who has been here for a very long time.

He has done a stellar job considering there was no plan ever made here. We let this evolve into what it is, and unfortunately it wasn't a cash cow. It's running in deficit and no one is bailing us out. Shame we are not a Bank eh??

I left a year ago almost because my political views have changed somewhat and the 2 ideologies would clash somewhat if I were to remain here.

I don't want to land the blame on 1 person, like Patrick, because it isn't entirely all his fault.
There was Kent, who really screwed things up with his Tiki Monstrosity, then our AWOL LEADER ROB, who swans in and out when he needs something and the list is really endless, the names all becoming a blurrrrr.

The rest of you all are great people, and I hope you all have had fun here, learnt something and will be able to move on taking with you the knowledge you learnt.

If I have the money, this would not be an issue, but I need tyres for my truck, food in my belly, and this server costs a month more than a weeks rent. I simply cannot afford it anymore.

I am sorry, this is not up for debate. I will not surrender the domain or site to anyone. I made this offer a long time ago to a number of people and it has not gone well.

If anyone is to blame, then blame me, the owner, creator, as I am the only one who can really destroy it.

It's sad, but necessary.

Unless I win the Lottery in the next week or so, which I doubt, this site will cease to exist here sometime in August 2014.

Pete
Site owner.

So it seems the World Freeman Society website will soon be kaput. It's interesting to see the tone of "Goodman Pete's" message.

My suspicion is that "Kent" is "Kent Barrett", who formerly was very active with the Human Rights Defenders League in Canada, but now is a follower of Scott Duncan.

As a small observation, though there are persistent references in Canadian media sources that there are 30,000 Freemen-on-the-Land in Canada, it is wildly incongruous that a group of that size could not support the stated cost of the World Freeman Society website. Further, the posting activity on the website is quite limited. Even admitting that the Freeman/OPCA community has broad divides, I think the failure of this website to be self-sustaining is a clear illustration that the 30,000 figure is spurious.

My bet continues to be an order of magnitude less - and that is for all OPCA affiliates no matter their flavour: Freeman, Sovereign, Moor, Detaxer etc. And I'd be willing to go so far as to say 3000 is a very high estimate.

A further implication of this development is that it appears Freeman-on-the-Land affiliation is on the decline. As far as I am aware there are no sources for statistics on this point, but from our research here on Quatloos and anecdotal sources it seems to me that 'orthodox Freemanery' is dwindling, with instead an increase in prosperity programs such as the One People's Public Trust, Freedom Club Canada, and Gold Shield Alliance, along with the fragmentation of the OPCA affiliate community among new and old gurus such as David-Kevin: Lindsay, Chief Rock Sino General, Scott Duncan, Dean Clifford (though he's sinking fast too), Marcus the Serpent King, the Human Rights Defenders League in Canada (also sinking fast), "minister" Belanger of CERI, and many other smaller successors.

SMS Möwe

Going to the WFS Forum, linked above, gives the following message: This Account Has Been Suspended for exceeding account resource limits. Please contact the web admin.

Perhaps freemanary will end with a whimper and not a bang.

[Jeffrey]

There's an obvious joke to be made about the Freeman Society failing because they stopped paying their bills.

[bmxninja357]

There's an obvious joke to be made about the Freeman Society failing because they stopped paying their bills.

The jokes on you if you believe people who have clearly expressed they are discontinuing a website should continue paying for it.

Peace
Ninj

[arayder]

There's an obvious joke to be made about the Freeman Society failing because they stopped paying their bills.

Some freemen like to pretend that a society, a nation, its laws, its government and its authority are mere illusions. They say a society's efforts to organize itself is just smoke and mirrors.

But with the demise of the WFS web presence we see that freemen don't really understand anything about building society. So why should anybody give a hoot what freeman say about building anything?

Like the movement itself, the forum was/is useless. . .hardly even entertaining any more. After a few years of Menard's boozy absentee leadership, failed projects, uncounted for donations and forum censorship by power drunk monitors the WFS forum just crawls to the side of the highway like road kill and dies.

Don't mind the stink, boys.

[LordEd]

Somebody snag the domain and have it redirect to the 'willy wonka' YouTube video of 'Its all there in black and white. You lose! Good day sir!"

[Jeffrey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HqyEHqEYho

Wonka's rant is about a contract dispute and they'll probably misinterpret it. I think Billy Preston is probably closer to what the Freeman Society is about.

[arayder]

While the WFS forum has been running aground Bobby Menard, the self proclaimed "director" of the society, has been using his inheritance to putter around with his motorized ninja goat in the hopes he might one day sell production models to movie makers, like his new sponsor, Steve Bates.

The narcissist has moved on, freemen.

[Lambkin]

Somebody snag the domain and have it redirect to the 'willy wonka' YouTube video of 'Its all there in black and white. You lose! Good day sir!"

The site going down does not mean the domain is available - the two are unrelated. worldfreemansociety.org's registration is paid through Jan 12, 2015. If you want to grab the domain upon expiration (assuming they don't renew) you should use a "drop catch" service like SnapNames.

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

Frankly, I regret the closing of the World Freeman Society webpage. As I believe is obvious, I do not support the concepts that historically have been promoted on that source - from all I can tell they did not and do not work - and I admit to being very troubled by the conspiratorial rhetoric that was advanced by many of the contributors.

That said, we have lost a valuable research resource.

One issue I face as someone interested in the OPCA phenomenon is the ephemeral nature of so much of the material. I know of many things that at one time existed but now have disappeared. The WFS provided many years of background information and context in a continuous form - one could see the evolution of concepts such as the "Five Letters" scheme, and how individual Freemen attempted to craft their "Notice of Understanding and Intent and Claim of Right" documents. Also highly relevant is the community's response to judicial criticism, particularly in the period immediately after release of Meads v. Meads.

This was, is, and would be important context. When in the future others become interested in this phenomenon and attempt to understand it better they will not have this 'raw data' available to ground their investigation.

One of the reasons I participate on Quatloos is to help establish that historical record - this is one of the few stable resources online where data of this kind can be identified, catalogued, and recorded. I suppose an argument could be made that there's no point in 'preserving garbage', but I disagree. No matter whether or not the ideas promoted on the WFS were or were not correct, those ideas affected a significant number of people in a substantial way, for better or for worse.

I still hold out the admittedly dim prospect that what I think is a significant social phenomenon will receive the academic treatment it deserves. It's just a little bizarre to recognize that in 20 years a graduate student who attempts to study this subject will have less raw source data than an analogous investigation of 1980's punk protest movements - because the latter communicated to a large extent via homemade hardcopy 'fanzines', which can and have been saved in limited numbers that can be used as a source reference.

But that's the web, I suppose.

SMS Möwe