ATM LEASEBACK SCHEMES-- any insight?

[Funlife]

Hi all,

I am a current investor at NASI. Things were OK for 3 years (when I purchased my first machine) until Aug 2014. Usually we get our check or deposit in the first 5 days of the month, but not this time...

On 8.5.2014, a NASI rep emailed us, "I just spoke with Joel and learned that this months’ checks are being mailed today. I believe it has something to do with the fact that he’s been out of town. Not to worry."

On 8.9.2014, a NASI rep emailed us, " August's delay in payments has been the result of Nationwide contracting with an outside firm to manage the monthly disbursements to investors. This system conversion has not gone smoothly, and Nationwide has dismissed the firm."

I finally got the check on 8.13, but only to find it bounced on 8.18

On 8.20, the rep email, "I just received confirmation from Joel that he is issuing you new checks from a new bank account. Do not redeposit."

So of course no August payment in my bank account yet.

I am quite worried now since I am down like $20K (after monthly income). I have called them numerous times, but 75% of the calls are picked up by the secretary, saying that Joel or his accountant are in a meeting or not in the office. The 25% of the time, Joel or his accountant are promising that I will get my money on X date, which usually are just lies...

So pretty much all I can do is

Any fellow investors here who is having similar trouble?

[worried]

Funlife,

I'm very sorry you've found yourself in this situation... check your personal messages (log in and click the button at the top of the page for messages)...

[webhick]

I'm curious about that rubber check.

What was the reason the bank gave for the bounce? Non-sufficient funds, account closed, hold...

Also, was this check drawn on the same account as prior ones? If you don't know how to tell, the bank account and routing number appear at the bottom of all checks. It's as simple as comparing the numbers on the latest check to the numbers on an old one.

[worried]

I could be wrong, but I believe this NASI scam has become massive. My family member is going to be tragically devastated emotionally and financially by this.

For those of you who have happily profited obscenely from this scam (and come on... deep down you KNEW it was a scam), please consider those that are financially wiped out and the effect on their families when you start fighting against the 'clawbacks'.... or at least don't expect sympathy...

[notorial dissent]

On an even grimmer note, if this is indeed a ponzi scam, as several people have suggested over time, and as was my first thought out the door, all those "investors" who have been "profiting" off of the scam, have been participants in the scam, and thereby their profits aren't profits, and if this eventually goes the way the Zeek ponzi went, they could not only be out what they invested, but in the position of having to disgorge every dime they ever got from the scam. Not a pretty picture at all. T'were it me, after I got done crying over money probably gone bye bye for good and cursing, I'd be on the phone to my lawyer, the state AG's consumer fraud office, and I'd be busy filing a complaint with the NJ, I think it is, AG's office of fraud, as well as the local US Attorney.

[worried]

This isn't a game people, and Joel/Ed know it. How many investors out there who stand to lose tens/hundreds of thousands of $, or even millions, know people who enjoy breaking kneecaps as a side job? How long do you think Joel/Ed are going to hang around to find out?

There are only two safe places for them now (and I'm sure people like them already knew this): somewhere out of the country or in police/protective custody.

All you people who just kept looking at this website on a daily basis just hoping and waiting to get your money back before the scam busted only possibly HELPED Joel and Ed get away. Let's hope not. Let's hope the bounced checks are the result of the authorities seizing/freezing the accounts and Joel/Ed are under some kind of control.

If you're involved, contact the authorities. It can only help, even if you've been part of this for 10+ years and made a bunch of money, coming clean now and cooperating can only make it easier than first trying to hide and then fighting to keep that money that they're going to take anyway one way or the other. If you don't, until they catch up with you, you'll ALWAYS have that cloud hanging over you and your heirs. You don't want that.

It's not a game, and the authorities take this just as seriously as Joel/Ed. And I'm sure the authorities don't have sympathy for those that try to hide and fight.

If you're owed money by Joel/Ed, forget it. It's gone unless the authorities can help you reclaim some. But you're going to have to make yourself known to them. I would start with the SEC website. It doesn't take long, I know.

[Britsa]

Something is really happening in out there that is being hidden from clients. I know of several other people whose checks have bounced because of NSF. They have all been more recent clients (Ponzi !!!) How on earth could some people have been paid and some not paid by an organization which deals with millions of dollars a month and allegedly smoothly for years. Phone calls to NASI same response--new check in the mail.
Could someone in the know please advise precisely how to take action against NASI and its' principals.
Who should one call first? Local US attorney in county of residence ? FBI Office ? what office of the SEC? Time for action.

[JamesVincent]

Something is really happening in out there that is being hidden from clients. I know of several other people whose checks have bounced because of NSF. They have all been more recent clients (Ponzi !!!) How on earth could some people have been paid and some not paid by an organization which deals with millions of dollars a month and allegedly smoothly for years. Phone calls to NASI same response--new check in the mail.
Could someone in the know please advise precisely how to take action against NASI and its' principals.
Who should one call first? Local US attorney in county of residence ? FBI Office ? what office of the SEC? Time for action.

Start with the local AG and go from there. They can give you enough information to go where you need to if they won't be able to help you. Letters to the SEC are never a bad thing.

edit: Be as detailed as possible in either event. Names, account numbers, contracts, etc. would all be very important to the authorities.

[worried]

Britsa,

Check your personal messages.... (log in and you'll see the button at the top for messages)...

I reported this stupid NASI scam a year or so ago at:

http://www.sec.gov/complaint/select.shtml

It didn't take long at all to answer the questions on the web form and I was able to attach/upload a couple files as evidence.

Waiting and hoping for the best isn't going to work in this case people... over a hundred views of this forum every day and how many of you are doing exactly that (waiting and hoping)? Go to the SEC website and give them your information. I'm pretty sure that the magnitude of this scam will push it to the top of anybody's priority list. I just hope they're not long gone already sitting on a beach in a country without extradition agreements with the US, sipping Pina Coladas and reading this dicussion forum and laughing as they toast each other and their success in RIPPING US ALL OFF!!!.... if we're lucky, the checks are bouncing because the authorities have frozen the accounts, you have to talk to the authorities to find out...

[worried]

This is important for EVERYBODY (all current and FORMER 'investors' AND their family members and other financial associates) to realize: the minute you gave Joel/Ed money, you became a VICTIM... not a 'client', or 'associate', or 'partner', or 'investor',... a VICTIM. It doesn't matter how long you've been in this or whether you have broken even, are still in the hole, or have made millions, you're a victim. Think about it for a minute.... Say you've been in this for just about 5 years and you just broke even right before the checks started bouncing. 'Wow', you say, 'at least *I* broke even, I feel sorry for those people that joined this scam in the last couple of years'... well, you SHOULD, because it's THEIR money in your bank account. YOUR money paid other people off years ago... OR,... OR... was spent/LAUNDERED by Joel/Ed on other scams like the Fuel Doctor.

If I were the authorities I wouldn't give you a free pass just because you broke even. That would just REWARD you for getting in on the scam earlier than others, that doesn't make sense at all. Everyone should be considered equal victims with the only differentiator being the MAGNITUDE of your loss, the PERCENTAGE of loss should be equal. That's what I would expect. The reality may deviate from that because of realities/practicalities and how good some people's lawyers are,... if you want to get into a legal fight, that's your right I suppose, but that's not the kind of life I want to live...

Waiting and hoping to at least break even only played into Joel/Ed's scheme, it didn't do you ANY good. Asking for your money back (and GETTING IT) helped in only ONE way: it took money out of Joel/Ed's hands....

Talk to the SEC now.... NOW!.... MAYBE it's not too late, just maybe....

[worried]

This is particularly relevant as it helps to explain some of the rantings by posters on this forum like BeverlyHillsMan and SomeYuppie...

Self-deceived individuals deceive others better
Date:
August 27, 2014
Source:
University of Exeter
Summary:
Over-confident people can fool others into believing they are more talented than they actually are, a study has found. These 'self-deceived' individuals could be more likely to get promotions and reach influential positions in banks and other organizations. And these people are more likely to overestimate other people's abilities and take greater risks, possibly creating problems for their organizations.

The whole article (not very long):
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 141609.htm
It's too bad they didn't think to include these affinity scam type of cases in their study...

[worried]

tips.fbi.gov

This is another place to report the NASI scam. I don't think it hurts to go ahead and report to both the SEC and FBI, you never know who is busy and who isn't. The FBI site says that their tip-line/site is monitored 24 hrs a day and there is a short story about how in 2009 with just a few hours notice they were able to stop a Columbine-style shooting because somebody wrote tip on the website at about 3am. I just posted what I know and a link to this site on the fbi site. But I'm not a direct victim... you people with bounced checks and contracts, etc. NEED to report this...

If you want any hope of getting money back report this scam to both the fbi and the sec at the links given above. It's easy, even easier than the decision to get involved with NASI was. It's either that or you can try to go repossess 'your' ATM machines...

[Tednewsom]

Late in August, Mr. Gillis sent letters to his assorted "investment partners" apologizing for the brief little hiccup in payments, assured them that all was well, and everything was going to be fine, just fine.

[worried]

Gillis/Wishner are just trying to buy time people!!!

If you really think it's NOT a scam, let the FBI and SEC prove it for you! Contact them! NOW!

And ask Joel/Ed for all your 'principal' back... if they don't respond with the 'buyout' as promised that's more info to report to the SEC/FBI.

Does any 'investor' out there actually have any paperwork with ATM serial numbers on it?

How can Joel tell you the machines he's 'selling' you are the "highest performing ever"? They're NEW going in NEW locations, how would he know? If they're NOT new, then where is all that money going?

Contrary to something SomeYuppie said a long time ago, any similarities to a real business that this scam exhibits are NOT PROOF that it is not a scam. Every other proven ATM scam ALSO had the same similarities to a real business. MarvinGardens pointed out also that the ONLY way to prove one way or the other is to go check EVERY machine supposedly owned, get the licensing/registration, cross-check to look for multiple 'owners' etc. And, guess what? It's not practical/feasible to do that, and the scam is DESIGNED that way for that reason!! Ask for you money back from Joel/Ed, and report them. That is the smartest thing you can do at this point. For every one of you reading this there are probably a bunch more blissfully ignorant 'investors' out there, you just might get your money back if Joel/Ed are actually still around and still trying to play the scam out a while longer. If they don't respond to you, then there's your proof it's a scam and you will WANT to report them then... please... wake up people...

[JamesVincent]

Over 91,000 hits on this thread and so far we have had, what, 7(?) people who were directly involved in this outfit to chime in? And at least one of those was proven to be an out and out fake, namely BeverlyHillsDude. If you are involved and come by this thread please help move it along. Even if you are pleased with the company, log in and say so. And tell us why you are pleased. This threads exist for one purpose, to educate those who are seeking information on a particular subject. Anyone doing research before investing is going to want to see both sides of the story before they invest. So whether you like NAS or don't please feel free to chime in so that others can research for themselves and make an informed decision.

[worried]

I don't know why I didn't find this before... The ATMIA (ATM Industry Association) website (where you won't find ANY mention of NASI by the way) actually WARNS about 'ATM leaseback scams' (the word 'ponzi' actually is mentioned, which is huge for a paper that you KNOW had to be vetted by lawyers before they published it)

https://www.atmia.com/files/Position%20 ... HED(1).pdf

some excerpts from the paper:
It should be noted that only a tiny fraction of ATMs are sold in today’s worldwide
industry using this model
But, supposedly NASI is the 4th largest ATM supplier/operator...

Another best practice should be to exclude guaranteed investment returns on ATM
installations, which create the risk that the arrangement comprises a ponzi scheme

Really.... it's kind of clear that this is the closest this ATMIA organization can LEGALLY come to warning all of you against ATM-leaseback schemes. You know their lawyers wouldn't let them post big red letters on a website saying:

ATM-leasbacks with guaranteed income are a SCAM and we're sick of them making the rest of us look bad!!!

But, you KNOW that's what they WANT to say (the paper even mentions the industry looking bad because of these scams)...

[Judge Roy Bean]

'Round these parts if someone bounces a check things can get really interesting, really fast. Call your local prosecutor's office. (Your mileage may vary!)

[worried]

Some of you people involved with NASI really should consider whether you are going to be seen as only an innocent victim or if you're going to be seen as complicit in the perpetration and operation of this scam... I think how you communicate with people and what you say will be a big discriminator in that regard obviously...

[webhick]

It has come to my attention that someone here has been somewhat persistent about speaking offline to another member.

If you have been contacted, you may regret complying with this request. There are several things about this person which indicate that he may be one of the scammers, but I'm not confident in this conclusion as he could just as easily be a gunshy victim.

In any event, I advise anyone contacted for personal information not to take your chances. If he needs to speak offline to someone, he needs to speak to the authorities and has been given information to that end.

[Gregg]

Even if you don't have the serial number you could cross check the build dates on the machines, if at all possible. The whole premise is that they're buying brand new machines for their clients, if you have a 3 year old machine then you know that's not true. May also help to show deception.
Not sure how much that helps.

Are the processing reports a month behind? Do you get Octobers report at the beginning of December? That would explain why they receive them on the 1st.

I dunno how important it is that an ATM be "current" or that the difference is a hardware or software thingy that can be fixed at installation by uploading the most current version. FOr what it's worth, I have seen million dollar machinery, "new" that was 2-3 years old when delivered, I'd even say it was more than common but less than the norm only because a lot of the stuff I see is custom built for us. (not a lot of companies have a $7 million powertrain simulator/transmission test stand setting on a shelf these days)