Motor vehicle titles

[Patriotdiscussions]

Anyone know anything about the mco/mso and the titling of motor vehicles?

Are our vehicles private property or public property? Do we own legal title or equitable title?

[AndyK]

Relevance of "MCO and/or MSO" to anything other than describing where a vehicle was assembled: More genuine sovereignoramus gibberish.

Vehicles -- unless they are owned by a federal, state, or local government -- are private, personal property. The various governments have absolutely no ownership interest in them -- until they catch you transporting drugs in which case they THEN become government peoperty.

Any more inane, long since refuted questions?

[Patriotdiscussions]

Relevance of "MCO and/or MSO" to anything other than describing where a vehicle was assembled: More genuine sovereignoramus gibberish.

Vehicles -- unless they are owned by a federal, state, or local government -- are private, personal property. The various governments have absolutely no ownership interest in them -- until they catch you transporting drugs in which case they THEN become government peoperty.

Any more inane, long since refuted questions?

Yes, could you provide me with your state or federal statutes that allow the government to regulate your private property?

And not sure about your state but in Florida you can NOT title a new car without the mco

[AndyK]

Relevance of "MCO and/or MSO" to anything other than describing where a vehicle was assembled: More genuine sovereignoramus gibberish.

Vehicles -- unless they are owned by a federal, state, or local government -- are private, personal property. The various governments have absolutely no ownership interest in them -- until they catch you transporting drugs in which case they THEN become government peoperty.

Any more inane, long since refuted questions?

Yes, could you provide me with your state or federal statutes that allow the government to regulate your private property?
No. You can look up any of them that you wish. Try WESTLAW.

And not sure about your state but in Florida you can NOT title a new car without the mco
And that is significant because

[Patriotdiscussions]

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/ind ... 19.21.html

[Patriotdiscussions]

Relevance of "MCO and/or MSO" to anything other than describing where a vehicle was assembled: More genuine sovereignoramus gibberish.

Vehicles -- unless they are owned by a federal, state, or local government -- are private, personal property. The various governments have absolutely no ownership interest in them -- until they catch you transporting drugs in which case they THEN become government peoperty.

Any more inane, long since refuted questions?

Yes, could you provide me with your state or federal statutes that allow the government to regulate your private property?
No. You can look up any of them that you wish. Try WESTLAW.

And not sure about your state but in Florida you can NOT title a new car without the mco
And that is significant because

Already have, the government can not regulate private property, that is how we know cars are not private property.

The mco is perfect title, we only get equitable title while the state keeps legal title. Can you explain the difference between the two titles?

[AndyK]

Trollin, trollin, trollin on the river.

[notorial dissent]

Sovrunignorami BS. The MCO or Manufacturer's Certificate of Origination verifies that the vehicle is new, and when and where it was manufactured and stands as the first link in the chain of title since no one has actually owned it prior to that point, which is why it is needed to provide the initial title, and identifies whoever is the current owner, in this case new original owner of the vehicle. Nothing more, nothing less.

Already have, the government can not regulate private property, that is how we know cars are not private property.
More Sovrunignorami BS, you know nothing.
The mco is perfect title, we only get equitable title while the state keeps legal title. Can you explain the difference between the two titles?

More Sovrunignorami BS, title is only perfect if it is done properly, and an MCO does not qualify as title.

[Famspear]

No, in the normal situation where you own your car outright, you have both legal title and equitable title, Einstein. The fact that there is a title certificate, etc., etc., has nothing to do with the concept of legal title versus equitable title.

Here's what I suggest you do, "Patriotdiscussions." After you get your accounting degree and become a CPA -- and then spend years as a bank auditor -- as I suggested in another thread, you should apply to some law schools and see if you can get accepted. If you're accepted, enroll in law school. In the first year, you will take some courses on property law. You will learn about the difference between legal title and equitable title. You will learn that these concepts have nothing to do with what you have been reading on the internet about title certificates for your car, etc., etc.

[ontobserver]

The topics started by Patriotdiscussions over the past couple of days seem to be among the first arguments used by the sovrun crowd. My introduction to the whole FMOTL philosophy occurred when an acquaintance of mine started blathering on about creation of money, legal and equitable title, birth certificates, etc. At the time I had to work relatively closely with this individual and, while I knew that what he was saying was complete garbage, I wasn't able to effectively debate his ramblings as I don't have a legal, accounting, or economics background (I'm a techie). In the evenings, I found myself spending a couple of hours looking up the facts to attempt to debunk the previous day's ramblings before the follow-on "lesson" began. Of course no amount of logic could persuade this individual of the level of craziness of his beliefs.

It was through my attempt to understand where some of my acquaintance's beliefs came from that I found Quatloos. While several of these "theories" have been debunked in other places, as a relative newbie to the whole sovrun ideology, having threads here dedicated to properly debunking these myths would have been very helpful. Particularly when a piece of legal or tax law is being misinterpreted/intentionally twisted.

I know how frustrating rehashing this may be...my acquaintance also believed almost every conspiracy theory he read. At least the conspiracies based on technology were easy for me to demonstrate were nonsense, and like the topics presented here, often based on misquoting snippets of the relevant documentation/standard.

[fortinbras]

As with parcels of land, the state keeps track of the ownership of motor vehicles. This is primarily to discourage auto theft, although there are also considerations for crime investigation and other topics. So the pink slips on file with the state provide a sort of history of the ownerships of a vehicle (of course, most vehicles have only three or fewer owners between coming off the assembly line and being pounded down for scrap metal).

The MCO is, in effect, the very first pink slip, the car's birth certificate, it's proof of virginity. Buying a car and getting the MCO is proof that you are getting a brand new car, that you are the very first owner of it. The first owner turns in the MCO and receives his own pink slip in return, with his name on it. So the first owner cannot use the car and then pretend that it's new and unused when he sells it to someone else, because he cannot provide his buyer with the MCO.

If the first owner were not to send in the MCO, but keep it planning to use the car and then con the next buyer into thinking it's brand new by presenting him with the MCO, he runs some risks with the cops. If he's stopped while driving and the only registration he has is the MCO, then it will be presumed (at least initially) that he stole the car from a dealership. This can be straightened out eventually, but it will be troublesome and there will be penalties for admitting that he violated the law by not sending in the MCO promptly to get his own pink slip.

[Red Cedar PM]

the government can not regulate private property

Well that's great to know, I had no idea. Hey can you let me know what your address is? I think I'll buy your neighbor's house and store some nuclear waste there. Just a heads up, you might want to wear a lead suit when you go outside for the next 4 or 5 million years.

[rumpelstilzchen]

the government can not regulate private property,

Who says so?

[davids]

The OP: Obviously a mid level student at the law school of youtube.

[Famspear]

....the government can not regulate private property, that is how we know cars are not private property.

Wrong. the government can regulate private property. Your car is private property.

The mco is perfect title, we only get equitable title while the state keeps legal title.

That's gibberish.

You hold both legal title and equitable title to your car.

One of the fun parts of contradicting people like you is that we don't even have to go to the trouble of explaining why you're wrong. Since you don't bother to explain why you believe you're right, you're not entitled to an explanation of why you're wrong.

We can play this game all day.

[Judge Roy Bean]

As with parcels of land, the state keeps track of the ownership of motor vehicles. This is primarily to discourage auto theft, although there are also considerations for crime investigation and other topics. ...

Actually, in most states, the state keeps track of the ownership of property (motor vehicles included) for the purposes of collecting taxes from the owner.

[JamesVincent]

As with parcels of land, the state keeps track of the ownership of motor vehicles. This is primarily to discourage auto theft, although there are also considerations for crime investigation and other topics. ...

Actually, in most states, the state keeps track of the ownership of property (motor vehicles included) for the purposes of collecting taxes from the owner.

And fees..... lots of fees.

[Arthur Rubin]

(to "Patriotdiscussions") ... you should apply to some law schools and see if you can get accepted. If you're accepted, enroll in law school. In the first year, you will take some courses on property law.

Property law was second year at the law school where I went for a year. He would probably need two of the normal four years of law school to get the basics.

As for the benefits of going to law school, it doesn't appear to take for some people.
Orly Taitz, for example.

[Patriotdiscussions]

Wow, so do you guys know anything about rights? If you have a right to something, you also have a right to exclude anyone from using OR benefitting from it in any way. Homes today are not private property, they are real property or real estate, neither legal definition means private property.

http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?c ... &id=&page=

[Judge Roy Bean]

Wow, so do you guys know anything about rights?

Lots.

If you have a right to something, you also have a right to exclude anyone from using OR benefitting from it in any way.

Not necessarily. There are all kinds of things, including easements that can affect your "rights."

Homes today are not private property, they are real property or real estate, neither legal definition means private property.

My don't care light is flashing. Pity the fool that fails to read my "Private Property - No Hunting" signs.