Let me start my questions from the beginning.

[Patriotdiscussions]

Does being born automatically submit you to the social contract?

Does not every male citizen have to sign up for selective service?

Does the constitution not outlaw involuntary servitude?

Would being born, forced into the social contract and thus selective service be voluntary servitude?

[LPC]

Sorry, but this is not a philosophical debating society.

If you have an assertion about tax laws that you would like to make, I will try to tell you why you're wrong. To get you started, look at the Tax Protester FAQ, which I wrote. If you can find something in there that you think is wrong, tell us why, and we will explain your mistake to you and then, if you persist, we will ridicule you.

That's the way it works.

If you don't like it, you can take your whiny, sophomoric questions somewhere else.

[wserra]

Does being born automatically submit you to the social contract?

Being born where? What "social contract"? What do you mean by "submit"?

I think you'll find that you're not likely to receive answers to vague questions here. But welcome anyway.

Does not every male citizen have to sign up for selective service?

Negative questions are difficult to answer. Does "yes" mean that registration is mandatory or not?

In any event, every male citizen (and many non-citizens, such as permanent residents) must in fact register.

Does the constitution not outlaw involuntary servitude?

The Thirteenth Amendment bans involuntary servitude.

Would being born, forced into the social contract and thus selective service be voluntary servitude?

Allow me to phrase my own answer to your loaded question: the draft is not "involuntary servitude". Arver v. United States, 245 U.S. 366 (1918).

Anything else?

[fortinbras]

My tendency is to clam up when the questions are couched in the negative ("does this not lead to that?").

Patriotdiscussions seems to resent the basic tenet of his handle; he quibbles about the meaning of patriotism.

[Famspear]

1. They are making me do it.
2. I don't want to do it.
3. I don't understand whey they are making me do it.
4. This is a free country, so I shouldn't have to do it.
5. If they are still trying to make me do it, I have to find some explanation as to why they are doing all this to me.
6. They use fancy lawyer-talk to make me do it.
7. I need to find some fancy lawyer-talk of my own to make them stop.

by Quatloos regular Pottapaug1938,
June 24, 2011, at
viewtopic.php?f=8&p=122584&sid=4f63d0ff ... 4d#p122584

[Pottapaug1938]

He is a classic troll. He comes onto forums like this in "just asking" mode; but he soon discloses, almost by accident, that he is merely fishing for an answer which he wants to hear. If confronted, he will duck, weave, and otherwise evade direct answers to his questions, or respond with a question which is barely, if at all, relevant to the thread. Then, he can go to a forum for people like him and strut about, claiming that " went onto Quatloos, and all of those experts could NOT answer my questions!"

[JamesVincent]

Does being born automatically submit you to the social contract?

We've been through this ad nauseam in other threads.

Does not every male citizen have to sign up for selective service?

Actually, no. You can avoid having to sign up for Selective Service by enlisting at 17, like I did

Does the constitution not outlaw involuntary servitude?

I think Wes covered that one pretty well but, for the hell of it, what are you even talking about?

Would being born, forced into the social contract and thus selective service be voluntary servitude?

You have an issue with serving your country? That's pretty funny considering your forum name. But, then again, most people who use Patriot in their online persona's seem to be anything but an actual patriot.

[AndyK]

Since PD is blatantly trolling, I am locking this thread.

But first, a few comments related to the initial post.

Unlike PD, many of the members here have served in the armed forces of the United States. Some volunteered and some of us were drafted. Some of us were involved in combat.

PD doesn't have a clue.

Click.

[wserra]

Unlocked. Respectfully disagree, and thread started in Mod forum.

[JennyD]

Does being born automatically submit you to the social contract?

Does not every male citizen have to sign up for selective service?

Does the constitution not outlaw involuntary servitude?

Would being born, forced into the social contract and thus selective service be voluntary servitude?

Here's just a few observations..

There is no such thing as "the Social Contract" there is however a societal norm that all people regardless of race, creed, sexual orientation, etc are expected to adhere to to keep society civilized, there is of course much leeway in how you do that.

Every male that turns 18 in the UNITED STATES must sign up for selective service, this is the law, in case of a large scale military conflict that they can have people to call up and fight it. There are , as others have said very simple ways around this, like oh enlisting...

There are many laws including the Constitution that outlaw involuntary servitude.

Since there is no such thing as "the Social Contract" and Selective Service is ONLY a registration system, then the answers to your question is a resounding no from a does this violate my rights perspective (which given my line of work is all I have to go on for an answer)

[Dr. Caligari]

There is no such thing as "the Social Contract"

As a literal contract, no there isn't. The "Social Contract" is a metaphor for the fact that, throughout human history, people have found it safer and more comfortable to live in organized groups, with recognized rules and rulers, than to live in a condition of total anarchy. The implied "contract" (again, used as a metaphor, not a legal term) is that each individual will give up some personal rights and freedoms in exchange for not having to live in constant fear of violence from every other individual.

[Pottapaug1938]

There is no such thing as "the Social Contract"

As a literal contract, no there isn't. The "Social Contract" is a metaphor for the fact that, throughout human history, people have found it safer and more comfortable to live in organized groups, with recognized rules and rulers, than to live in a condition of total anarchy. The implied "contract" (again, used as a metaphor, not a legal term) is that each individual will give up some personal rights and freedoms in exchange for not having to live in constant fear of violence from every other individual.

A good example involves a childless couple paying taxes to support our schools. That couple was educated at collective expense during their childhood; and now there is a perceived collective benefit to ensuring that the children of today receive a good education.

[ProfHenryHiggins]

It seems to me that the original poster has fallen into a fallacy of logical reasoning.

I rarely resort to pointing people towards wikis, but in this case it may be more understandable to him than a website with more technical and accurate wording. PD, please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies and consider the tenets you proposed.

Also, I concur with earlier posters that you are a troll.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Does being born automatically submit you to the social contract?

Does not every male citizen have to sign up for selective service?

Does the constitution not outlaw involuntary servitude?

Would being born, forced into the social contract and thus selective service be voluntary servitude?

To conserve electrons:

No. You can't be "submitted" to a contract.
No. The vast majority of the male population does not.
Yes. The 13th Amendment does, specifically.
No. Selective Service registration does not include "service."

[JennyD]

There is no such thing as "the Social Contract"

As a literal contract, no there isn't. The "Social Contract" is a metaphor for the fact that, throughout human history, people have found it safer and more comfortable to live in organized groups, with recognized rules and rulers, than to live in a condition of total anarchy. The implied "contract" (again, used as a metaphor, not a legal term) is that each individual will give up some personal rights and freedoms in exchange for not having to live in constant fear of violence from every other individual.

Unfortunately the OP is referring to "Social Contract" as a legal term that implies a legal contract and all of the arguments that go with, he's one step away from the Strawman Argument at this point with his question.

[Patriotdiscussions]

Since PD is blatantly trolling, I am locking this thread.

But first, a few comments related to the initial post.

Unlike PD, many of the members here have served in the armed forces of the United States. Some volunteered and some of us were drafted. Some of us were involved in combat.

PD doesn't have a clue.

Click.

Thanks for the assumptions on what I have done in my life. Along with the first response it's a wonder how you guys fit in one thread with the massive amount of brain power you have that makes each one of you right every time.

[Patriotdiscussions]

Does being born automatically submit you to the social contract?

Does not every male citizen have to sign up for selective service?

Does the constitution not outlaw involuntary servitude?

Would being born, forced into the social contract and thus selective service be voluntary servitude?

Here's just a few observations..

There is no such thing as "the Social Contract" there is however a societal norm that all people regardless of race, creed, sexual orientation, etc are expected to adhere to to keep society civilized, there is of course much leeway in how you do that.

Every male that turns 18 in the UNITED STATES must sign up for selective service, this is the law, in case of a large scale military conflict that they can have people to call up and fight it. There are , as others have said very simple ways around this, like oh enlisting...

There are many laws including the Constitution that outlaw involuntary servitude.

Since there is no such thing as "the Social Contract" and Selective Service is ONLY a registration system, then the answers to your question is a resounding no from a does this violate my rights perspective (which given my line of work is all I have to go on for an answer)

Man, if only the founders were as smart as you pretend to be.....


The body politic is formed by a voluntary association of individuals; it is a social compact by which the whole people covenants with each citizen and each citizen with the whole people that all shall be governed by certain laws for the common good.


Born in the us you say?



(h) [Location of United States.]

The United States is located in the District of Columbia.


http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/9/9-307

[Patriotdiscussions]

Does being born automatically submit you to the social contract?

Does not every male citizen have to sign up for selective service?

Does the constitution not outlaw involuntary servitude?

Would being born, forced into the social contract and thus selective service be voluntary servitude?

To conserve electrons:

No. You can't be "submitted" to a contract.
No. The vast majority of the male population does not.
Yes. The 13th Amendment does, specifically.
No. Selective Service registration does not include "service."

Come on judge, you know your choice of domicile submits you to the contract.


So all us male citizens 17-45 do not have to sign up? Because the selective service website says your wrong buddy.

[Patriotdiscussions]

Can anyone tell me how being born somewhere submits me to go and die for whatever reason our leaders decide is not a violation of my right to life?

If being born somewhere forces me to sign up to possibly go and die somewhere, how does that fit involuntary servitude?

[bmxninja357]

the problem with many folks involved in the patriot movements is that they cannot seem to distinguish between 'we the people', 'i the lone guy' and 'us the small group'.

i find this commonplace with those i have to deal with. it seems to be much of the root of many patriots,sc, freemen, and anarchists initial misinterpretations of the boundaries of ones rights, duties, and responsibilities.

peace,
ninj