Let me start my questions from the beginning.

[AndyK]

(h) [Location of United States.]
The United States is located in the District of Columbia.

Total horsesshit.

[AndyK]

Can anyone tell me how being born somewhere submits me to go and die for whatever reason our leaders decide is not a violation of my right to life?

If being born somewhere forces me to sign up to possibly go and die somewhere, how does that fit involuntary servitude?

"pledge our lives, ..." Ring any bells, jerk?

[wserra]

(h) [Location of United States.]

The United States is located in the District of Columbia.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/9/9-307

Yes, for the purposes of § 9-307 of the UCC, dealing with perfection of security interests, when the United States is a debtor, it is deemed located in D.C. Are you perfecting a security interest against the United States? If not, this is sort of irrelevant, isn't it?

[Famspear]

....Born in the us you say?



(h) [Location of United States.]

The United States is located in the District of Columbia.

Patriotdiscussions, you're really going to have to do better than this. The location of someone's birth within the United States has nothing to do with the "location" of the United States under section 9-307(h) of the Uniform Commercial Code, which deals with Part 3 of Article 9 of the UCC, which in turn deals with perfection and priority of security interests -- and then only to the extent that the UCC applies.

The other poster was referring to the United States in a geographic sense -- as you well know. the United States in a geographic sense means the fifty states and the District of Columbia, generally -- as you well know.

You really need to collect your thoughts. Your posts are rambling tidbits of only marginal coherence.

[wserra]

Can anyone tell me how being born somewhere submits me to go and die for whatever reason our leaders decide is not a violation of my right to life?

Is that English?

If being born somewhere forces me to sign up to possibly go and die somewhere, how does that fit involuntary servitude?

It doesn't.

[Patriotdiscussions]

the problem with many folks involved in the patriot movements is that they cannot seem to distinguish between 'we the people', 'i the lone guy' and 'us the small group'.

i find this commonplace with those i have to deal with. it seems to be much of the root of many patriots,sc, freemen, and anarchists initial misinterpretations of the boundaries of ones rights, duties, and responsibilities.

peace,
ninj

Sounds good, so please enlighten me on who " we the people" are.

[Patriotdiscussions]

(h) [Location of United States.]
The United States is located in the District of Columbia.

Total horsesshit.

Go ahead and give me a legal definition of United States please

[Famspear]

....give me a legal definition of United States please

First, I wouldn't jerk Andy's chain if I were you.

Second, you probably you don't need a "legal definition of the United States."

I'll humor you, though. Ask yourself this question: "Why am I asking Andy this question?"

[Famspear]

the problem with many folks involved in the patriot movements is that they cannot seem to distinguish between 'we the people', 'i the lone guy' and 'us the small group'.

i find this commonplace with those i have to deal with. it seems to be much of the root of many patriots,sc, freemen, and anarchists initial misinterpretations of the boundaries of ones rights, duties, and responsibilities.

peace,
ninj

Sounds good, so please enlighten me on who " we the people" are.

I'll answer that. "We the people" means the people of the United States of America as a group. It does not mean "me the person." It does not mean "the individual who sometimes uses the internet handle of "Patriotdiscussions' ". When you see it written somewhere that "the people" are sovereign here in the good ol' USA, it means just that. THE PEOPLE. Not "the person." It does not mean that each individual is sovereign in the same way that the United States or the United Kingdom or Germany is sovereign.

[Patriotdiscussions]

(h) [Location of United States.]

The United States is located in the District of Columbia.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/9/9-307

Yes, for the purposes of § 9-307 of the UCC, dealing with perfection of security interests, when the United States is a debtor, it is deemed located in D.C. Are you perfecting a security interest against the United States? If not, this is sort of irrelevant, isn't it?

In which sense of the word do you mean? The Supreme Court has told us the term means AT LEAST 3 different things.

[Famspear]

(h) [Location of United States.]

The United States is located in the District of Columbia.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/9/9-307

Yes, for the purposes of § 9-307 of the UCC, dealing with perfection of security interests, when the United States is a debtor, it is deemed located in D.C. Are you perfecting a security interest against the United States? If not, this is sort of irrelevant, isn't it?

In which sense of the word do you mean? The Supreme Court has told us the term means AT LEAST 3 different things.

No, the issue is what sense are YOU, Patriotdiscussions," asking about? The fact that you mentioned the three different ways of defining "United States" indicates that you have either read the Supreme Court decision (Hooven & Allison Co. v. Evatt) or you read the entry in Black's Law Dictionary or you picked it up somewhere else.

YOU'RE the one who cited 9-307. So it's up to YOU to explain how you think the definition in 9-307 is relevant to the comment to which you were referring.

[wserra]

In what sense did you mean? After all, you used the term first.

[Famspear]

Not only that, but Patriotdiscussions opened the door to all this by implying that some other poster here had mentioned being "born" in the "us" (as he put it). But no other poster did so. Patriotdiscussions himself posed the question, and then responded to his own question (as though the question had been raised by someone else) with a nonsensical citation to UCC section 9-307, which has nothing to do with whether the location of someone's birth is or is not "in" the "us."

In other words, he's still trolling.

[Patriotdiscussions]

....Born in the us you say?



(h) [Location of United States.]

The United States is located in the District of Columbia.

Patriotdiscussions, you're really going to have to do better than this. The location of someone's birth within the United States has nothing to do with the "location" of the United States under section 9-307(h) of the Uniform Commercial Code, which deals with Part 3 of Article 9 of the UCC, which in turn deals with perfection and priority of security interests -- and then only to the extent that the UCC applies.

The other poster was referring to the United States in a geographic sense -- as you well know. the United States in a geographic sense means the fifty states and the District of Columbia, generally -- as you well know.

You really need to collect your thoughts. Your posts are rambling tidbits of only marginal coherence.

Geographically the " United States" is ten miles by ten miles, along with any land aqquired for boatyards,etc plus any territories.

[Patriotdiscussions]

....give me a legal definition of United States please

First, I wouldn't jerk Andy's chain if I were you.

Second, you probably you don't need a "legal definition of the United States."

I'll humor you, though. Ask yourself this question: "Why am I asking Andy this question?"

So I can see if he is on the same page. Most people think there is one definition of the United States aka the 50 republics united under the constitution, but we know there are more definitions then that.

[Famspear]

Geographically the " United States" is ten miles by ten miles, along with any land aqquired for boatyards,etc plus any territories.

No, we've already been through that. The reference you gave applies only to issues involved the United States (in a political sense) as a debtor under Article 9 of the UCC, with respect to perfecting certain security interests. For that purpose, the United States (as in the government) is deemed to be located in the District of Columbia.

But that's not the general definition of "United States" in the geographic sense.

For example, under the Internal Revenue Code, the term "United States" in the geographic sense generally means "the States and the District of Columbia." See 26 USC section 7701(a)(9). Then for specialized definitions within the Internal Revenue Code, there might be other definitions.

You obviously don't understand some basics about statutory construction and how definitions work.

[LPC]

Geographically the " United States" is ten miles by ten miles, along with any land aqquired for boatyards,etc plus any territories.

Liar. There is no definition any where, at any time, of the "United States" as ten miles square.

Stating your delusions as though they were facts can be amusing, and can be pathetic, but eventually rises to the level of dishonesty, and you've now crossed that line.

You're no longer hallucinating, but lying.

[Patriotdiscussions]

Yes, for the purposes of § 9-307 of the UCC, dealing with perfection of security interests, when the United States is a debtor, it is deemed located in D.C. Are you perfecting a security interest against the United States? If not, this is sort of irrelevant, isn't it?

In which sense of the word do you mean? The Supreme Court has told us the term means AT LEAST 3 different things.

The term "United States" may be used in any one of several senses. It may be merely the name of a sovereign occupying the position analogous to that of other sovereigns in the family of nations. It may designate the territory over which the sovereignty of the United States extends, 672*672 or it may be the collective name of the states which are united by and under the Constitution.[6]


1. Would you agree that definition one means international law?
2. Would you agree that definition two means the exclusive legislative authority given to congress over the seat of government,boatyards,territories.
3. Definition 3 easily being what most people think.

[Famspear]

The term "United States" may be used in any one of several senses. It may be merely the name of a sovereign occupying the position analogous to that of other sovereigns in the family of nations. It may designate the territory over which the sovereignty of the United States extends, 672*672 or it may be the collective name of the states which are united by and under the Constitution.[6]


1. Would you agree that definition one means international law?
2. Would you agree that definition two means the exclusive legislative authority given to congress over the seat of government,boatyards,territories.
3. Definition 3 easily being what most people think.

No, definition one means the United States is a political sense -- generally, the United States government.

No, definition two means the physical territory of the states and the District of Columbia (and, in some cases, places like the U.S. Virgin Islands, Guam, Puerto Rico, and so on).

Definition three does mean a reference to the fifty states. However, obviously most people do not think the way you seem to think they do. Most people I have ever known use the term "United States" to refer to the geographical area of the fifty states and the District of Columbia (definition 2).

Many people also understand the use of the term in definition 1 - to describe the government, as in a citation to a court case. Most people, if they understand that United States v. Jones is the name of a court case, will readily realize that it's a dispute between the United States GOVERNMENT and somebody named "Jones."

You obviously have led a sheltered life heretofore.

[Famspear]

By the way, in UCC section 9-307, the term "United States" is being used in a political sense, not a geographic sense. What that section is saying is that the United States GOVERNMENT (a political concept) is deemed to be located in a physical geographical area called the District of Columbia (i.e., D.C. in the geographic sense) -- for purposes of Part 3 of Article 9 of the UCC.