The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

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arayder
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by arayder »

wserra wrote:
arayder wrote:Pigpot,

Please join us here in a discussion. You are welcome to post here.
It's been two weeks since pigpot registered. Seems like that's not gonna happen.

I wonder why?
Employing the usual, shopworn freeman logical fallacies and word play Pigpot makes the argument that democratic governments have no authority.

I suspect Pigpot won't engage since he knows freeman debunkers have refuted the argument that the law's authority is a mere wisp of smoke which can be blow away with a few magic words.

If one wants to stop a freeman pseudo-scholar in his tracks one need only ask: (1) Why his "law is a fiction" argument doesn't also make common law invalid? and (2) How the governments of western democracies got their authority before birth certificates and driver's licenses?

Crickets always ensue. . . .
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by bmxninja357 »

actually pigpot is a marc stevens junkie and an anarchist. he is not a freeman on the land. i belive he only appears on the wfs to be disruptive. if i had my way he would be practicing free speech on a different forum....

peace,
ninj
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by arayder »

bmxninja357 wrote:actually pigpot is a marc stevens junkie and an anarchist. he is not a freeman on the land. i belive he only appears on the wfs to be disruptive. if i had my way he would be practicing free speech on a different forum....

peace,
ninj
Nevertheless Pigpot employs the well refuted freeman argument that western democracies and their system of laws are mere "fictions". I suppose one can borrow bad ideas from freeman pseudo scholars without being a freeman.

But, it seems to me that anytime any anti-government crank acts up, using freeman ideology as justification, freemen and freeman-lites can't wait to say the ole boy isn't a freeman.

This "we'll throw anybody under the bus" strategy might be why the freeman subculture is coming part at the seams.
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by bmxninja357 »

you still do not seem to grasp the difference between certain groups. in fact if you dig through piggly wigglys posts you would soon find he says he is not a freeman on the land. further he does not recognize authorities or countries or any such. freeman on the land believes in good, responsible governance, thus there is a respect for properly delegated and just governance.

but we have been down this road before. this is simply trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

a freeman on the land has to accept governance which is directly opposed to the marc stevens no state stuff. the two are not compatible.

and i have yet to find one single instance of pigpot ever having an iron in the fire. he just makes trouble and gives shitty advice to dupes. much like his hero marc stevens.

understanding the theories and the who is behind it is much clearer if we start by using the groups titles appropriately. or do we go back to just calling everyone a sovereign citizen and lose any understanding we may have?

peace,
ninj
whoever said laughter is the best medicine never had gonorrhea....
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by arayder »

Oh, please. Freemanism is whatever it needs to be, whenever it needs to be. At one time it's anarcho-libertarianism. Then it's "all law is contract". Then it's "government is a fiction".

Now it's just good government?

By trying to be everything, freemanism has become nothing at all.
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by bmxninja357 »

actually mislabeling what certain groups arguments are is why its difficult for some to see the differences.

you seem to think every participant on a message board speaks for a particular group. this is highly illogical. i will agree there are many freemen on the land who have some strange views. however there are many postings on public message boards that are not freemen on the land; just posters on said board.

it seems you wish to paint fotl with the same brush as every group out there. reality says this is not based in fact.

peace,
ninj
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by arayder »

Well, if freemanism is about good government then why can't it govern itself?

Why can't the World Freeman Society and its director account for a single dime donated to the society?
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by bmxninja357 »

do you have an iron in that fire that requires someone to be accountable to you?

do i have the same right to ask to see the accounting behind the jref forum? do i have a right to see the accounting here?

you seem to think everyone you dont agree with and have no iron in the fire with owes you something. my what a sovereign belief. perhaps you will be yelling about auditing the federal reserve next...

ninj
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by arayder »

So good, open government is now really secret government?

Already, in just two posts you have made "the movement" into what you need it to be at this moment!

Or do you just mean to say you have no idea what happened the WFS donations?
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by bmxninja357 »

so your belife system is that the world freeman society is the government and thus owes you personally full accounting although you do not wish to participate in its goings on or donate to its various goings on?

sounds even closer to yelling about auditing the fed....

and what the movement known as freemen on the land does seems quite irrelevant as you wish to make it whatever you want it to be lest you look a might silly for being wrong and mislabeling things to suit you political and legal bias.

the difference is when im wrong i have no problem admitting it promptly. its a shame that lesson has been lost on you.

ninj
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by arayder »

Look around, ninja. Freemanism is dying as we speak because it can't decide what it is and can't adhere to its ever-changing core beliefs.

Freemanism says it's about not harming others. . .yet between the bad legal advice and outright frauds it can't seem to do anything but harm.

Freemnism says it's about openness and honesty. . .but when somebody asks where the money went they get a sophistic two step.

I suspect you don't have a clue what happened to the money and just can't own up to the reality that you weren't paying attention.
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by Burnaby49 »

bmxninja357 wrote:a freeman on the land has to accept governance which is directly opposed to the marc stevens no state stuff. the two are not compatible.
peace,
ninj
Read Meads v Meads, not the massive PHD thesis portion on OPCA gurus and methods but only the portion at the beginning that applied to the actual issue at the hearing, Mr. Mead's responsibilities to his estranged wife and children. The decision was in respect to his full-frontal Freeman tactics at trial trying to derail things with Freeman gibberish. In paragraph 24 he clearly stated that he was a Freeman on the Land;
24] Mr. Meads then asked me about the sign above my head, which is the Royal Coat of Arms of Canada, and declared:

This is an admiral court, your jurisdiction is on water, it's not on land; I am a freeman on the land, and for you to play down some of the statements I am making is not acceptable unless you prove it to me in law, and just saying it to me is nothing.
Then in paragraph 25 and 31 he stated that because he is a Freeman the laws of the land don't apply to him;
[25] He complained that he had asked Ms. Reeves to provide her bond and license to practice law, but had not received that, and continued:

'But I do sir want to work with law, and not statutes and rules that have come up from man over time. I understand they work for the bulk of the people, but ... I'm representing myself and what I speak about I believe in. There are rules above man's rules, and God's laws is where your laws originated from, so let's go back to the Maximus, and deal with it as quickly as possible.'
[31] He asserted he was willing to go to jail, but as he is "flesh and blood" he is free from the mumbo jumbo that is law. Mr. Meads alleged that an emergency protection order to which he is subject was the result of a trap, and his wife had been coached by the RCMP to spring that trap. He rejected the system into which he is pushed, and indicated that my statements are directed to a corporate entity created by the government.
This doesn't look like the acceptance of good governance to me unless Freemen consider "good governance" to be a flexible term that means whatever they want it to mean to fit to their own advantage. This is certainly the situation I've seen in the Freeman trials I've reported on. They believe in "good governance" only to the point it imposes no rules or obligations on them which, in my understanding, is the same as no governance at all.

The judge pointed out the hypocrisy of this position;
[43] From a review of these documents, it appears that Mr. Meads is purporting to split himself into two aspects. One gets his property and benefits, the other his debts and liabilities. The Mr. Meads with liabilities has entirely indemnified the Mr. Meads with property. He also appears to instruct me and the Bank of Canada to use a secret bank account, with the same number as his social insurance number or birth certificate, to pay all his child and spousal support obligations, and provide him $100 billion in precious metals. Mr. Meads has also purported to create various contractual obligations for those who might interact with him, or who write or speak his name.

[44] This is, of course, nonsense. As I have noted to Mr. Meads, these materials have no force or meaning in law, other than they indicate an intention on his part to evade his lawful obligations and the authority of the Court and government. He is an OPCA litigant. That has legal consequences for him, which these Reasons will explain.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by bmxninja357 »

i just know your little dance around a simple fact its none of your business
arayder wrote:Look around, ninja. Freemanism is dying as we speak because it can't decide what it is and can't adhere to its ever-changing core beliefs.

Freemanism says it's about not harming others. . .yet between the bad legal advice and outright frauds it can't seem to do anything but harm.

Freemnism says it's about openness and honesty. . .but when somebody asks where the money went they get a sophistic two step.

I suspect you don't have a clue what happened to the money and just can't own up to the reality that you weren't paying attention.


actually the changes could be seen as a good thing and proof of progress. as to freemanism dying thats a horn you have been blowing for many years already. and here the freemen are still. i wonder how many times you have claimed it was dead now and been wrong? gotta be dozens.

personally i came here for a greater understanding on certain legal issues not to argue about things with you. but you cant see the forest for the trees. so i will learn from others and let you rant on about everyone being whatever name you choose to give them and how they need to be accountable to you. i can simply ignore it.

ninj
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by bmxninja357 »

@burnaby49,

actually i find most of meads arguments irrelevant and drivel. i would also agree the logic in them is circular and stupid. and as far as freeman arguments go let me ask one thing of mr meads, why did he have a marriage license in the first place?

i am no fan of family law but i do find many of his arguments to be vexatious even from a freeman on the land standpoint. but as i have said before, im not always in agreement with terrible legal arguments that lack merit in any case law or legal logic.

peace,
ninj
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by arayder »

bmxninja357 wrote:i just know your little dance around a simple fact its none of your business
arayder wrote:Look around, ninja. Freemanism is dying as we speak because it can't decide what it is and can't adhere to its ever-changing core beliefs.

Freemanism says it's about not harming others. . .yet between the bad legal advice and outright frauds it can't seem to do anything but harm.

Freemnism says it's about openness and honesty. . .but when somebody asks where the money went they get a sophistic two step.

I suspect you don't have a clue what happened to the money and just can't own up to the reality that you weren't paying attention.


actually the changes could be seen as a good thing and proof of progress. as to freemanism dying thats a horn you have been blowing for many years already. and here the freemen are still. i wonder how many times you have claimed it was dead now and been wrong? gotta be dozens.

personally i came here for a greater understanding on certain legal issues not to argue about things with you. but you cant see the forest for the trees. so i will learn from others and let you rant on about everyone being whatever name you choose to give them and how they need to be accountable to you. i can simply ignore it.

ninj
Oh, no. . .my point is that the folks who ran the World Freeman Society never accepted accountable to anyone, including its own members, about anything.

One has to wonder why you are continuing the coverup?
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by bmxninja357 »

what evidence do you have that the wfs is not accountable to its membership? or are we simply supposed to take your word for that?

ninj
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by arayder »

So, ninja, are you saying you know what happened to the money and just won't tell?
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by bmxninja357 »

arayder wrote:So, ninja, are you saying you know what happened to the money and just won't tell?
its you making a claim thus you supply evidence of said claim. isnt that the way it works?

personally i don't believe the wfs owes you anything. much the way i dont believe this forum or any other owes me a copy of their accounting. im also pretty darn sure your math on the income and expenses of running things like forums and assorted attempts at stuff are fairly off. im not meeting a lot of rich wfs members. never have.

ninj
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by Burnaby49 »

arayder wrote:So, ninja, are you saying you know what happened to the money and just won't tell?
Who cares? It is/was their money and what they did with it is only relevant to the contributors. If they aren't complaining then what use was made of it is irrelevant.
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by Burnaby49 »

bmxninja357 wrote:@burnaby49,

actually i find most of meads arguments irrelevant and drivel. i would also agree the logic in them is circular and stupid. and as far as freeman arguments go let me ask one thing of mr meads, why did he have a marriage license in the first place?

i am no fan of family law but i do find many of his arguments to be vexatious even from a freeman on the land standpoint. but as i have said before, im not always in agreement with terrible legal arguments that lack merit in any case law or legal logic.

peace,
ninj
Actually Mr. Meads discussed why he got a marriage license during the hearing. He was in the sad position of having the Freeman truths revealed to him only after he was already married and bound by that pernicious document;
[16] When Mr. Meads married Ms. Meads, he said he was told he required a marriage license to avoid commission of incest, but he has subsequently learned, from Black's Law Dictionary, that a licence is an authorization to do something that is otherwise illegal. But, Mr. Meads said, he is only subject to God's Law, the Maximus of Law, and the Bible indicates that adultery is the sole basis to dissolve a marriage. In this case, he alleged that Ms. Meads had committed adultery with his brother-in-law, and that she had broken the contract of marriage by that adultery - that is God's law - the remainder is man's law, statute law: which does not affect or apply to Mr. Meads.
So, as The Who so wisely said, he won't get fooled again. However the hearings were necessary because he had to work through the consequences of his original foolish mistake of thinking a marriage was a creation of the state rather than a creation of God's Law.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs