National Liberty Alliance - Citizen Grand Juries

[Slim Cognito]

Harry Riley of OAS/PFA fame finally posted the news of Trussell's arrest on his PFA forum this morning. It's a long, drawn-out yawn of a post but admits Trussell spent the night in jail, released the next morning and the "actual charges have yet to be revealed." He closes with a plea for his followers to bombard SA Siegmeister, Judge Parker as well as AG Bondi and Gov. Scott, including their contact information. This is going to go over well in Tallahassee.

[notorial dissent]

In fairness to Darash, Folch has been up to this long before NLA came along, it's just that he's crazier than they are and isn't bowing down to Darash's authority and majesty, so he's bad and wrong.

[Slim Cognito]

I just went back to the PFA forum and read the full post from Harry Riley about Trussell's situation. This excerpt stood out for me.

"...Since that time Mr. Trussell has met with some of the local School Officials and offered to recommend mercy to the Court if they would agree to drop Common Core and recognize former US Supreme Court decisions favoring parents as having the last word on their children’s education..."

I'm no legal expert but that sounds like a threat to me.

I know how to post links but don't want to link an entire forum page here. As long as his post is, I didn't really want to post that in its entirety but, for future reference, is there a way to link to a singular post within a forum?

[wserra]

I know how to post links but don't want to link an entire forum page here. As long as his post is, I didn't really want to post that in its entirety but, for future reference, is there a way to link to a singular post within a forum?

Is this the post you mean?

Most forums (including Q) have permalinks for each post. On Q, it is the tiny page icon, next to the date of the post. On that forum, it is the icon that looks like a link in a chain. In keeping with the level of acuity the comments show, the "chain" is made of lead, and has tooth marks on it.

[Slim Cognito]

Is this the post you mean?

Yes and thanks for the tip.

[LightinDarkness]

To this point, the growth of the NLA (and it has grown - although not nearly as much as other sov'run groups have in their prime) has been has been based on Darash constantly reassuring everyone that NLAers wont get arrested. On just about every call he gives some story of how the FBI interviewed NLA members and the NLA members "educated" the FBI.

So I can't wait until this news gets talked about on Monday's call. Darash will of course make all sorts of vague threats and promise to indict everyone in Florida, but I suspect this is the beginning of the end. Its a recurring pattern - it happened with OPPT, RuSA, etc. - once people start getting arrested, most of the flock runs for the hills.

I attribute this behavior to what I call the Fair Weather Sovereign Theory (TM). I believe the vast bulk of people involved in these movements are in them for two reasons: (a) they want free money or (b) they want revenge on the government because of current or past legal problems. NLA, of course, is mostly group (b) although there is some of (a) in the people who think they are going to make careers out of being sov'run county administrators at $150k a year salary. But their resolve is tenuous - they don't want to do much and at the first sign of trouble its like a buffalo stampede to the next scam.

This is the beginning of the house of cards crumbling for Darash, I think. Any thoughts on this?

[notorial dissent]

LiD, I like your theory, I think it is a good synopsis of the phenomenon. I will give Darash credit, I think he did pull together a bigger group than fRuSA ever really managed, but since he is the one controling the grift and purse strings there really isn't much incentive for the other grifters to show up. I also think that you are quite right in that once some of the "elite" start going to jail the loyal and ardent followers will quickly be but a memory, which is why I hope that Darash meets his own personal presentment sooner rather than later. I think you did leave out just plain ignorant and stupid in your attraction factors for the theory though, as I think those two factors are the bigger inducements to follow, they just plain don't know any better.

[Slim Cognito]

Just my two cents, but I know some less than well-informed people who can still spot a scam if it's contrary to their ideology. I've been in conversations where I've told people about OAS or this CLGJ thing and they shake their heads and laugh that anyone would fall for such things, and these are people who hadn't watched or read the news in years. I think these particular people believe in the NLA because they want to believe in the NLA. They hate the current administration and anything that will delegitimize it sounds good to them.

As for arrests scaring them off, that's already having an effect. One hardcore fellow who posts at both the OAS and PFA forums is panicking that he'll be arrested for supporting the NLA and is asking for advice to deal with it. The answers he received were hilarious. One fellow told him he could appeal it to the Supreme Court so Scalia could straighten this mess out. Another said to call in the militia and start arresting the judges, sheriffs, even the attorney general and governor; and of course, there's always the second amendment solution.

[notorial dissent]

Slim, you have a good point, but as I suggested to LiD, the biggest factor is ignorance and stupidity, and as you say wanting desperately to believe in fairly tales. The people who are deepest in to this are the ones who know exactly nothing about how our system or our gov't works, so of course they fall for people like Darash's BS, and none of them will take the time or effort to actually find out how it does work or what they are doing or the fact that they are in fact on the edges of breaking the law.

[KickahaOta]

As for arrests scaring them off, that's already having an effect. One hardcore fellow who posts at both the OAS and PFA forums is panicking that he'll be arrested for supporting the NLA and is asking for advice to deal with it. The answers he received were hilarious. One fellow told him he could appeal it to the Supreme Court so Scalia could straighten this mess out. Another said to call in the militia and start arresting the judges, sheriffs, even the attorney general and governor; and of course, there's always the second amendment solution.

Personally, when people who already seem to be a bit unhinged start talking about second amendment solutions, that pretty much stops the hilarity for me...

[Chados]

Suffice to say I'm not surprised at this development.

Section 843.0855 is the section I've used in the past under similar circumstances, though we have not had the common law courts take it to this extreme in my jurisdiction. Light in Darkness is right about how the pattern for these guys post-arrest usually goes.

[Slim Cognito]

I read through a summary of Darash's conference call last night posted on Fogbow. It sounds as if he tried to avoid the topic of Trussell's arrest as much as possible. When it was brought up by callers, he threw Trussell under the bus saying he "knew what he was doing" or something to that effect. Apparently Trussell made a fatal error by hijacking a court-sanctioned grand jury rather than starting from scratch, or so Darash would have you believe. Here is a link to a local newspaper that gives the details and a mugshot. Scroll down until you come to the headline "Bogus grand juror is busted."

http://www.hardisonink.com/police.html

[Famspear]

I read through a summary of Darash's conference call last night posted on Fogbow. It sounds as if he tried to avoid the topic of Trussell's arrest as much as possible. When it was brought up by callers, he threw Trussell under the bus saying he "knew what he was doing" or something to that effect. Apparently Trussell made a fatal error by hijacking a court-sanctioned grand jury rather than starting from scratch, or so Darash would have you believe. Here is a link to a local newspaper that gives the details and a mugshot. Scroll down until you come to the headline "Bogus grand juror is busted."

http://www.hardisonink.com/police.html

From the linked news report:

Trussell and his acquaintances [ . . . ] attempted to speak with Gov. Rick Scott, but were instead interviewed by two Florida Department of Law Enforcement agents....

[fortinbras]

Terry Trussell was a big shot (if such could be) at the make-believe siege of DC in Operation American Spring last May. He called himself 'Chief of Staff" of the Operation and made some wild claim that Obama would order in drone to bomb hm and his buddies just to be rid of them.

Apart from wild descriptions from NLA type websites, I found this on Daily KOS:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/09/0 ... adenfreude

SUN SEP 07, 2014 AT 07:07 AM PDT
Now For a Little Common Law Grand Jury Schadenfreude.
by shades at midnite

If anyone has been following the antics of the National Liberty Alliance (NLA) of late, you know they've started a common law grand jury movement by which they plan to take over the government, indicting corrupt official by corrupt official, working their way up to President Obama sometime this century. Actually, their time frame is in the 60 day range, but I don't think things are going according to plan. A couple of years ago Larry Klayman tried to indict President Obama for treason via a "common law" grand jury out of Ocala, Florida. After the humiliating reaction to that, you'd think this movement would have died a quick but painful death. You'd be wrong.

If you haven't been following said debacle, here's the plan in a nutshell. Based on some half-wit's interpretation of a comment Scalia made in 1992 in US vs. Williams regarding grand juries, they've decided any person can go off half-cocked, form their own grand jury, indict and convict anyone they see fit, and judges/sheriffs, etc, are legally obligated to comply.

The National Liberty Alliance, and its founder, RWNJ extraordinaire John Darash, have managed to convince a significant number of people this will work and they've been working diligently filing what they believe are true bills stamped ever so officially with seals they've purchased at Staples and any day now they'll be proudly announcing the first wave of many arrests to come.

The best known of the most recent spate of common law (also called citizen's or people's) grand juries was announced throughout RWNJ-land August 13, 2014. It involves recent common law grand jury shenanigans in Dixie County, Florida. I prefer not to link to any of the crazy sites but most are easy enough to Google. If you want to read this particular announcement, google "common law grand jury Dixie County Florida" and you'll have plenty to chose from, mostly crazies but a few sane ones will pop up as well. The facts behind this grand jury are as follows. A court-sanctioned grand jury was convened in Dixie County and Terry Trussell (of Operation American Spring drone attack fame) was chosen, or volunteered, to be foreman. Once foreman, he attempted to hijack the legit grand jury for his own agenda. This was heralded as a breakthrough with high expectations from the looniverse.

Now for the schadenfreude: State Attorney Siegmeister obviously didn't take too kindly to Mr. Trussell's mutiny and requested he be removed from the grand jury. This was granted by Judge Greg Parker. Mr. Trussell then formed his own CLGJ, indicted Mr. Siegmeister for treason (yes, apparently in NLA World, having irreconcilable differences with a grand jury foreman is treason) sending his own "true bill" to the state supreme court with a copy to Justice Scalia (Scalia is apparently getting copies like this from all over the United States if the NLA boards are to be believed.) On August 28, an update from Mr. Trussell was posted. He remained optimistic despite not yet receiving acknowledgement of his true bills. He also said, "Apparently our law enforcement has taken a long Memorial (sic) Day holiday. We have a plan to wake them up." That was a reference to his expectation State Attorney Siegmeister would be arrested for treason at any moment. Ironically, the following week Mr. Trussell himself was arrested for "simulating a legal process."

The announcement of Mr. Trussell's arrest is slowly making its way across the looniverse, with only scant postings here and there. If you want to read one particularly pearl-clutching post from the RWNJ point of view, Google "Dixie County American Patriots Radio."

Well, that's all I have for now. Once OAS died off, I've been entertaining myself by following this common law phenom which seems to have replaced the American Spring movement. I'd been hesitant to post a diary on it because, well, it's just so silly, but today I couldn't help myself.

[Burnaby49]

If you haven't been following said debacle, here's the plan in a nutshell. Based on some half-wit's interpretation of a comment Scalia made in 1992 in US vs. Williams regarding grand juries, they've decided any person can go off half-cocked, form their own grand jury, indict and convict anyone they see fit, and judges/sheriffs, etc, are legally obligated to comply.

As good, and concise, an explanation as I've ever read.

[grixit]

Is it just me, or does "simulating a legal process", sound like something young law clerks get caught doing in the janitor's closet?

[KickahaOta]

Is it just me, or does "simulating a legal process", sound like something young law clerks get caught doing in the janitor's closet?

No, no, that's stimulating a legal process.

[notorial dissent]

Slim, no great surprise, Darash doesn't want to talk about his many and manifest failures if they can at all be avoided. That he threw Trussell under the bus is a surprise to no one, except probably Trussell, who I am getting the impression is not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer to begin with. Actually Trussell did get nailed for faking a grand jury. After the real DA told him apparently no only no but hell no, and according to Trussell blocked his authority and use of the real grand jury for his own purposes, he convened a common law jury of 25 who managed to get in to the courthouse and did their little pretend grand jury act, and that was what Trussell filed with the court that has gotten him in so very much trouble. It was also convenient that they effectively gave pretty much full confessions, they called it education, to the FL Dept of Law Enforcement.

I think shades at midnite is actually being generous, I don’t think Darash qualifies for halfwit status, but I digress. Doe shave Darash pretty well pegged though. I think this was a very good, short, sweet summation of the entire comedy act, just haven’t gotten to the end of it yet.

[Slim Cognito]

I doubt any of these NLA disciples would consider themselves surgeons because they watched a appendectomy video but give them a snippet from an old court decision and they believe they can educate not only the public but law school graduates as to what the courts can and cannot do.

[rogfulton]

I doubt any of these NLA disciples would consider themselves surgeons because they watched a appendectomy video but give them a snippet from an old court decision and they believe they can educate not only the public but law school graduates as to what the courts can and cannot do.

Don't be too sure about the surgeon part. Some of them learned to cook by watching Food Network.