The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

[Jeffrey]

I think I can answer that one.

I believe Menard got it from a translation of the Magna Carta. The key phrase is usually written as:

TO ALL FREE MEN OF OUR KINGDOM

Which I believe in whatever text he got it from or whatever lecturer he got it from misquoted it as:

To all Freemen on/of the Land

[ArthurWankspittle]

I think I can answer that one.
I believe Menard got it from a translation of the Magna Carta. The key phrase is usually written as:

TO ALL FREE MEN OF OUR KINGDOM

Which I believe in whatever text he got it from or whatever lecturer he got it from misquoted it as:

To all Freemen on/of the Land

As the Magna Carta was written in Latin, a quick search says the relevant bit is

Concessimus eciam omnibus liberis hominibus regni nostri,

Which is translated as "We have also granted to all freemen of our kingdom". Now "liberis hominibus" is two words but "freeman" had a specific meaning in mediaeval England. What I will say, even with my crap knowledge of Latin, is that you would never translate "regni nostri" as "on/of the land".

[arayder]

How telling that we have to sit there and tell freemen what it is they have claimed their movement is and what it believes.

As far as I can tell the core belief of freemanism is not about good governance as we normally think of the term. Rather, freemanary's core belief is that no freeman or freewoman can be governed without their consent. The belief is that no law, no statute, no constitution, not even the Magna Carta is applicable to any freeman, or freewoman who does not so consent.

This idea has not the invention of freemanary. Lysander Spooner and Ayn Rand thought this stuff up a long time ago.

As I and others have pointed out countless times there is no historical model of good governance which has incorporated freemanary's cult of the individual. When confronted with questions of practicality the oft response from freemen is to opine that questions regarding the practicality of freemanism are unfair since they force freemen stop thinking about their dream future for a few minutes while they talk about where they plan to step next.

IHMO, this impracticality is exactly why there is no freeman valley, no ACCP and no C3PO. . .and now hardly even a WFS!

Not unexpectedly the disintegration of the freeman subculture has, IMHO, resulted in disagreement about what freemanary is and what the freeman believes.

To be critical, I believe this disagreement is driven by the selfish desire of freemen, freeman gurus and freeman spokespersons to avoid being left holding a bag that contains one or more of the movement's abject failures.

If the trend continues freemanism will be about nothing.

[notorial dissent]

Yes, I second WES's request, I would like to see a definition and FROM Ninja. I want to see/hear what his take on it is, seriously!

[rumpelstilzchen]

So what is a "freeman on the land"?

My answer would be: It is a myth. There is no such thing as a "freeman on the land".

[arayder]

Concessimus eciam omnibus liberis hominibus regni nostri,

Which is translated as "We have also granted to all freemen of our kingdom". Now "liberis hominibus" is two words but "freeman" had a specific meaning in mediaeval England. What I will say, even with my crap knowledge of Latin, is that you would never translate "regni nostri" as "on/of the land".

While we wait for a response let say that, IMHO, the "on the land" part of "freeman on the land" gives a nod to fmotl/sov legal theory which misunderstands the nature of admiralty law.

According to a set of pre-fmotl pseudo legal scholars, from whom Menard borrowed much of what he spews, the laws modern democracies are admiralty law and as such have been unjustly foisted upon free men who live on the land.

This absurd misunderstanding of western law gives rise to subsequent freeman claims that no statute law applies to them.

Add a dash of anarcho-libertarianism with freeman theory of consent, that all law is contract law, (didn't they say all law is admiralty?) and the recipe is complete.

I wish I had a dime for every time a freeman has stood up in court and shouted that statutes don't apply to them! Freeman revisionism about how they believe in good government is a ruse aimed at diverting attention from their movement's years of poor scholarship, failure and double talk.

[notorial dissent]

omnibus liberis hominibus regni nostri

translates from the latin as "all the free-men of our kingdom"
which basically meant people who weren't serfs, and mostly pertained to the nobility and what was then the middle class and gentry. Does not mean at all what the FOTL types think it does, term ceased to have any real meaning in our culture when indentured servitude and slavery were abolished.

[rumpelstilzchen]

While we wait for a response let say that, IMHO, the "on the land" part of "freeman on the land" gives a nod to fmotl/sov legal theory which misunderstands the nature of admiralty law.

According to a set of pre-fmotl pseudo legal scholars, from whom Menard borrowed much of what he spews, the laws modern democracies are admiralty law and as such have been unjustly foisted upon free men who live on the land.

That is my understanding too. It is a made-up term just to say "I am on land therefore I am not bound by admiralty law." I have asked a few of them if our courts secretly apply admiralty law what was the purpose of execution dock. I have yet to receive an answer.

that all law is contract law, (didn't they say all law is admiralty?)

This bit always puzzles me. They claim that statute law is really contract law and yet contract law is almost entirely a common law subject. So statute law is contract law, is common law and is admiralty law.

[arayder]

While we wait for a response let say that, IMHO, the "on the land" part of "freeman on the land" gives a nod to fmotl/sov legal theory which misunderstands the nature of admiralty law.

According to a set of pre-fmotl pseudo legal scholars, from whom Menard borrowed much of what he spews, the laws of modern democracies are admiralty law and as such have been unjustly foisted upon free men who live on the land.

That is my understanding too. It is a made-up term just to say "I am on land therefore I am not bound by admiralty law." I have asked a few of them if our courts secretly apply admiralty law what was the purpose of execution dock. I have yet to receive an answer.

that all law is contract law, (didn't they say all law is admiralty?)

This bit always puzzles me. They claim that statute law is really contract law and yet contract law is almost entirely a common law subject. So statute law is contract law, is common law and is admiralty law.

How this translates into the new freeman talking point of "good government" is beyond me.

If freeman legal theory can be used to wiggle out from under centuries of western law, what makes freemen think they can endorse and encourage a "good" government knowing full well that their colleague's only skill set is trying to wiggle out from under government's legal authority.

By the core beliefs of freemanism any government freeman gurus might endorse, or put in place could be ignored by other freemen.

It's insane.

[notorial dissent]

The problem is, I think, that you are trying to associate logic and reason with a philosophy based on based on fantasy, falsehood, and illogic. It just doesn't work.

[grixit]

If your case is "on the docket" that means your case is "docked". Oops, now you're in admiralty. Better add a phrase to all your filings saying you refuse to consent to your case being on the docket.

[Pottapaug1938]

If your case is "on the docket" that means your case is "docked". Oops, now you're in admiralty. Better add a phrase to all your filings saying you refuse to consent to your case being on the docket.

And, if you understand all that, it means that you "stand under" the court's jurisdiction; so the best approach is to deal with your court case with the same intellectual probity which characterizes your legal research and interpretation skills.

[arayder]

It seems to me that freemanism is nothing more than nihilism dressed up as a political philosophy.

Unable to find a reality in history, law or custom for their freemen world view these nihilistic ninnies endlessly disparage all tangible moral truths and tell each other that traditional legal, and moral values and beliefs are groundless illusions.

Not realizing the contradiction fotl gurus tell us that the idea of freemanism is real!

It quite the thing in the freeman cult to opine that the law, the crown, the police, the banks are illusions. The truth is these Kierkegaardian wannabes embrace only the illusions they like.

[wserra]

So what is a "freeman on the land"?

I see that a number of Quatloosians have answered my question. Fine. But it was addressed to bmxninja357, who hasn't.

ninj - given that you're a moderator of a forum that has tons of misinformation on it, you've been generally treated politely here. So could you answer the question?

[JamesVincent]

I still think they got the term man on the land from here at about 0:36.

[notorial dissent]

[Burnaby49]

I believe the name Freeman, as the Freemen On The Land use it, is derived from the Magna Carta. Specifically;

29. NO Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right.[53]

Which is why they are all so big on the Magna Carta.

[notorial dissent]

And yet they have no idea of what the term actually means.

[wserra]

I'm not so much interested in where it comes from as what bmxninja357 means by it.

[bmxninja357]

@wserra,

sorry for my delayed response; have been doing some traveling and such and in the mountains i have much better things to do than play computer.

but as to your question. now i believe it was rob (menard) who first coined the term freeman on the land. however the meaning is like law and has evolved over time. and as was pointed out earlier it has no definition or cite in law. this is a bit off kilter. if one was to ask say, judge rooke im sure he could come up with one. however other groups like say 'the progressive conservatives', 'the wild rose party', 'social credit', 'new democratic party', etc. also once had no meaning, definition, or legitimacy. through time and action this changed. i guess one could say 'freeman on the land' is a concept or ideal. one that evolves to meet the needs of the people, as best it can.

now we need to keep in mind i do not speak for the wfs, any of its members, or really anyone but myself. so since the question is actually,

I'm not so much interested in where it comes from as what bmxninja357 means by it.

i can answer without over reaching my boundaries.

if i was to define the first word i would use this definition,

"freeman
One born or made free as to civil rights.
Source : William C. Anderson, A Dictionary of Law (1893)"

now im sure at some point the "on the land" did refer to admiralty law; but as i have said my understanding has grown and as a whole i would say the term, 'freeman on the land' is a simple way to distinguish this group from others.

and as an aside, some seem to belive 'freeman' comes from the magna carta when it actually dates back much further. for example: http://books.google.ca/books?id=C8IT45X ... &q&f=false
(bottom right of page 883)

hope that answers a few things.
peace,
ninj