ATM LEASEBACK SCHEMES-- any insight?

[worried]

Way to go Ted!! And whoever else helped!! This is exactly the same 'interview' I remember seeing as well... I remember thinking "if I'm giving a phone interview, I could claim to be ANYWHERE"...

This is going straight to the SEC, I willing to bet Joel didn't tell the SEC about this one. It may not matter much now, but it can't hurt too much either (well, I guess that depends on your perspective ).

[MarvinGardens]

Good work Ted! Ironic isn't it - given the current situation?

I heard this interview and really wished I could hear it again. But I didn't remember the name of the show or anything else other than my impressions. I had no idea there was a transcript of it. Gillis has clearly described an annuity that continues forever. I know "worried" will shoot this off to the the SEC. What a find!

[Tednewsom]

In the 2011 interview, Gillis says several times that NAS controls 20,000 machines, of which 6000 to 7000 are "investor-owned." Of late, the figure 31,000 has been bandied about. Can this thing truly have ballooned by a full 50% in three years, or is this more hogwash?

[webhick]

In the 2011 interview, Gillis says several times that NAS controls 20,000 machines, of which 6000 to 7000 are "investor-owned." Of late, the figure 31,000 has been bandied about. Can this thing truly have ballooned by a full 50% in three years, or is this more hogwash?

Take any number Joel says and throw it on the ground. Stomp on a few times, run it over with a lawnmower and let the neighborhood dogs hump it for a while. Whatever is left is the true number of ATMs Joel has.

It's so accurate and scientific, I may just patent it.

[Tednewsom]

Chris, the webmaster of the site, explained that they changed servers a couple years back, and in the process several articles & pages disappeared, which is why this doesn't appear on their site presently.

"This was one of probably a dozen deals we review each week," he wrote. "It actually came to us via a trusted but too trusting individual... otherwise we wouldn't have bothered looking further. From memory, after an initial interview which we just had transcribed (from memory) [Gillis] couldn't or wouldn't provide some critical information... accounting I think it was. Though this can be falsified if not audited the reticence to providing it just meant we moved right on. I hope they land up in a cell. Scum."

[Lost Income]

Lots of logical speculations in the above, but seems for now that only thing we know for sure is that investors stopped receiving checks and can't find Joel.

I've tried contacting Sera (SEC Investigator), but no reply. I've tried contacting SEC & FBI per earlier websites suggestions in this string, but no reply. Does anyone have other SEC or FBI contact info, that investors/victims can use for obtaining SEC or FBI progress & advice for recovering investment monies? Some investors are so new having just recently given Joel money, that they may not even show up in the investigations for the SEC or FBI to contact them.

[SadMomAndDad]

I agree. I am a first time poster but I have been reading all the threads. My husband and I, too, have unfortunately invested a ton of money into this NASI mess. When we tried to resell our ATM's back in late July, Joel gave us the run around and asked us to get a paper notarized and sent to him. So we did..and yet to hear anything back. Has anyone heard from Joel recently or know what to do in order to at least get a final answer?

[worried]

LostIncome and all other victims:
All you have to do is hang on to your NAS paperwork. Wait another week or more, I was told the FBI should have a special website up and running for victims to get information and submit their stories. You already have the special SEC email from a few pages back specifically for victims asd well. If you've made yourself known, you're on the list... and it's a big list. I was given a number of at least 2400 victims. At this point you're not going to get personal attention. They just can't do that, but they are working hard obviously given what's been happening. At this point, you're going to have to wait for a process that might take several years to get SOME of your money back. Net winners have to be "convinced" to give up their profits, assets have to be found, confiscated, etc....

[SadMomAndDad]

I highly doubt there will be any way to retrieve anything that was given to NASI. Im surprised Joel hasn't escaped the country by now.

[Gregg]

Lots of logical speculations in the above, but seems for now that only thing we know for sure is that investors stopped receiving checks and can't find Joel.

I've tried contacting Sera (SEC Investigator), but no reply. I've tried contacting SEC & FBI per earlier websites suggestions in this string, but no reply. Does anyone have other SEC or FBI contact info, that investors/victims can use for obtaining SEC or FBI progress & advice for recovering investment monies? Some investors are so new having just recently given Joel money, that they may not even show up in the investigations for the SEC or FBI to contact them.

Don't pester the SEC and FBI with thousands of calls, wait for them to establish contact points and until then leave them alone to conduct their investigation.

Really, if they spend most of the day anwering the phone, they won't make much progress. When they have information usefull to the public and victims, they'll set up a website and possibly a phone line to get and provide information.

[MarvinGardens]

In the 2011 interview, Gillis says several times that NAS controls 20,000 machines, of which 6000 to 7000 are "investor-owned." Of late, the figure 31,000 has been bandied about. Can this thing truly have ballooned by a full 50% in three years, or is this more hogwash?

I don't know if it's hogwash or not. I'm the one who posted the figure. The number came from a statement made by an FBI Special Agent during a simultaneous deposition taken by FBI and SEC investigators of a witness. That witness related the figure to me. I don't know where the Agent got the information.

Myself, I think he meant 31,000 contracts and that's not the same thing. But I didn't get to question him. And, it's probably the best information we have. So go ahead, bandy it about, the investigation is far from over.

As for whether or not the scheme could have ballooned by 50% in three years the answer is certainly- if it's not an ATM business. If it's a Ponzi scheme with phantom ATMs you're not expanding a business in the traditional sense so there are no overhead restrictions, it's just more paper work. As more investors tell their friends and roll over their own profits into new contracts the number of agreements can expand exponentially. Right up until people want to cash out.

Think about how fast MLM companies or other affinity programs can expand.

The world is desperate for safe, high return investments now. Every asset is priced quite high and anything that returns more than 5% is avidly sought. We have a whole generation of boomers that expected to get reasonable returns on their savings to bridge them into retirement. Instead, they got a financial crisis that wiped out half or more of their savings and the mood out there in investment land is growing desperate.

NASI is positioning itself as a completely safe, ongoing, never ending passive investment that returns a phenomenal ROI just like a government annuity. If it were real, it would be a gift from heaven. Desperate people are not prudent - as we have all witnessed. And they are being sold by friends, people they trust who can honestly swear to an 18 year series of payments that were paid just like clock work every month. That's the basic sales pitch. It's a confidence game. The suspension of judgement ... well, you get the idea.

[worried]

There are so many victims that they can't possibly respond to you one at a time.

Your tax dollars pay these dedicated men and women of the SEC, FBI, and other organizations like Attorneys General offices, they're all trying their best to serve you. But they're not miracle workers, you let yourself become a victim, they can only do the best they can to clean up the mess, and they're trying, very hard. Really, everyone should be grateful to these people that TRULY make difference between this country and most of the rest of this planet....

[notorial dissent]

MarvinGardens, I've been following your summations and information since the wheels started to come off, and have been quite impressed. Clear and concise. I have to admit that I had never thought to take the scam end of it to the next step and see the whole thing as an annuity fraud, but in hindsight, all the trademarks were there to be seen, I just never thought of it in those terms, as that is not familiar ground to me, although it makes perfect sense now. In an annuity or a fund, which this more closely resembles, you usually own stock in your fund, or to say your fund is based on ownership of a variety, hopefully, of stocks that produce income for you, but that you actually do not have a tangible ownership of except through the shares of the fund. In this case the “investors” didn’t really own the actual ATM’s but were instead effectively share owners in the fund that did own them and the profit off them, except there was no real profit, and apparently no real assets, or at least very few, in the fund. Which I think, pretty well clinches the SEC’s securities fraud angle all the more.

Like Webhick, I am anxiously waiting to see what the bankruptcy report/filing looks like, pretty I'm not expecting, but it should at least clear away a lot of the current illusion.

As things stand now, all that the “investors” can do is wait for the receiver to get through with the inventory and audit, at which time all the victims “investors” that they have record of will be contacted for verification, and those who haven’t by that point can then contact the receiver and present your proof of damage. If past experience is any indication, this could take a fair amount of time so the only thing I can say is be patient and get your paperwork in order, make copies for the receiver, and put the originals in a safe place. Let them do their work in peace, and it will go a whole lot smoother and faster than if you try contacting them right now.

In truth, I think if you want a preview of what this is going to look like, look at the recent Zeek Rewards case to see what the windup will probably look like. In one sense this may be fairly easy, as it appears NASI kept really good customer records, the question is how good were their financial records. A great deal will depend on that.

[Nationwideinvestor]

Lots of logical speculations in the above, but seems for now that only thing we know for sure is that investors stopped receiving checks and can't find Joel.

I've tried contacting Sera (SEC Investigator), but no reply. I've tried contacting SEC & FBI per earlier websites suggestions in this string, but no reply. Does anyone have other SEC or FBI contact info, that investors/victims can use for obtaining SEC or FBI progress & advice for recovering investment monies? Some investors are so new having just recently given Joel money, that they may not even show up in the investigations for the SEC or FBI to contact them.

Don't pester the SEC and FBI with thousands of calls, wait for them to establish contact points and until then leave them alone to conduct their investigation.

Really, if they spend most of the day anwering the phone, they won't make much progress. When they have information usefull to the public and victims, they'll set up a website and possibly a phone line to get and provide information.

There is a support group organizing. Check you private messages.

I only approved this post to let you know that when we edited your earlier posts with a link to a "group" forming to "protect investors" we did so because we don't consent to you using the forum to try to recruit victims into what may be another way to scam them.

I personally find your attmpt to get around this by spamming everyone in the thread with PMs that include the link we redacted in the open thread offensive, and honestly, t'wer it up to me I'd ban you outright.

But alas, calmer minds than mine must agree on things like this and so you may be allowed to remain among us.

Please take this as your final warning, though, do not attempt to use this forum to pimp your own agenda. In the past, I have seen several of these "groups" of victims being recruited to band together and storm the walls together. It more often than not turns into yet another way to scam the victims and for this and other reasons we don't allow recruiting for them here.
If you have something to contribute, by all means you are welcome to stay. If you're looking for others to contribute to you (or some group you're soliciting for), please go somewhere else to do it.

And in the future, before you PM someone

This is the group being organized and the moderator keeps redacting our posts

you might want to check into the forum enough to know that you just sent the PM to one of the moderators who is redacting your posts.

Idget.

[Lost Income]

Thanks to everyone for their help.

Last I heard in this string - Joel & Ed were still walking the streets, NAS was still operating, no assets were seized yet, and no formal charges had been filed against Joel & Ed by the SEC of FBI yet. So I wonder if at this time, there was some advantage for NAS to quickly file bankruptcy?

[grimreaper]

Involuntary Bankruptcy has already been filed as of the 19th. That information was posted here on the forum recently. This could in be *conflict* with the SEC's agenda, but there have been cases where the BK and SEC have worked in a coordinated effort. Should be interesting to see how it plays out. SEC could block the BK effort as well.

[The Observer]

As an additional advisement to people who are being approached or contacted by groups or individuals that are claiming to be representing or organzing groups for victims of investment scams:

(1) Insist on securing names, addresses and phone numbers of the principals involved in these contacts. You need to know who you are working with and to be able to research their reputation. Request that they provide you with references and validation of their experience in being an advocate or interest group. If they insist on keeping their anonymity, then you probably do not want to be involved with them.

(2) Be careful about volunteering or giving over sensitive personal or financial information, especially if the information would give the receiver the ability to commit identity theft or financial theft against you or your relatives. Remember, these groups are not going to be able to do as much for you as the government will, so why are these "advocate" groups asking for this information?

(3) If an "advocacy group" asks you to provide monies in order to accomplish what they are promising that they can do for you, be very wary. What they will promise may come across as a reasonable service for charging you for it (such as providing "research" on the scammer or locating "assets" or "accounts"), but the bottom line is whether you can can verify that the service is providing a factual and beneficial result for you. Again, the government will be the best investigator and you have already paid for the services they are providing, so why would you pay again?

(4) Be alert to attempts to frighten, manipulate or intimidate you into turning over senstive identity/financial information or money to any of these purported advocate groups. If they try to make you feel guilty, stupid or uncooperative because you have simply have tried to protect yourself from further victimization, you may be sure that they do not have your best interest at heart. They are getting desperate at you not falling for their initial line and are turning up the heat.

(5) Be alert to the style and nature of how they approached you. If their approach resulted in you knowing no more about them before they came into the picture, then you have some indicator that they may be up to no good and that you need to be very careful about interacting or providing information to them. It may be no worse than a sleazy attempt to create mailing lists they will sell to other bottomdwellers or it may be as bad as them trying to get the rest of the money that you have. Caveat emptor should be your motto.

[Gregg]

Involuntary Bankruptcy has already been filed as of the 19th. That information was posted here on the forum recently. This could in be *conflict* with the SEC's agenda, but there have been cases where the BK and SEC have worked in a coordinated effort. Should be interesting to see how it plays out. SEC could block the BK effort as well.

Involuntary Bankruptcy, as the name says, usually means a government agency forced it to be filed.

[grimreaper]

Involuntary BK is filed by potential creditors/investors. It is NOT filed by any government agency. Please do your DD before posting *opinions*.

[notorial dissent]

Since this isn't a securities or financial firm the next option would be an involuntary with a receiver appointed by the SEC to manage things while they take it apart. Same result regardless of how it is done.

My advice to the people involved with this, is DO NOT respond to anyone sending you or asking for information who is NOT either from the SEC or a court appointed bankruptcy receiver, and that will be obvious when you receive it.

There is simply nada you can do until the court gets things filed and posted. So save yourself the angst and drama and WAIT.