ATM LEASEBACK SCHEMES-- any insight?

[grimreaper]

We victims need help verifying info and making sure we are actually on the SEC, FBI and Bankruptcy Court contact list for when things start to happen. Any suggestions for how we can know that some of the posts here and the yahoo victims group info are not from Joel/ED and Crew?

First, make sure you have ALL your records. Copies of contracts....monthly distributions...1099s and Tax returns. That's all you really need. Since the 1099s were issued, it goes without saying that NASI FILED THEM WITH THE IRS. So, we can assume these documents can be subpoenaed from the IRS! That would identify all investors right there! So even if NASI destroyed his records, the investors will be tracked down. They can also go to the banks that issued the checks to track people down.

[grimreaper]

"DISTRIBUTIONS ISSUES IN A PONZI "

http://materials.abi.org/sites/default/ ... sPonzi.pdf

Claw-back recoveries
Victims of a Ponzi scheme are considered “net losers,” or investors whose funds
were used to satisfy earlier investors’ redemptions, leaving the victim with less than his or
her initial investment. Net winners, on the other hand, received more in a combination of
profit distributions and principal redemptions than their initial principal investment.
Trustees in Ponzi cases are charged with maximizing the amount of funds to pay
back the net losers. In order to equalize the losses the trustee may pursue net winners
and in some instances net losers and subject them to “claw-back” actions. These actions
are brought pursuant to §547 or §548 of the Bankruptcy Code, and state law counterparts,
as actions to avoid preferential and fraudulent transfers. Nearly all courts agree that pursuant to §547 the trustee may recover as preferential transfers the full amount of all investor withdrawals, regardless of whether or not principal or profit, made within the 90 day
period prior to the bankruptcy
The Bankruptcy Code allows for the claw-back of transfers made within the two
years prior to the bankruptcy petition filing while most state fraudulent transfer laws allow
the claw-back of transfers made up to four years prior to the filing. Section 544(b) of the
Bankruptcy Code adopts state laws for this purpose

Assuming the trustee prevails, the net winner is required to return any profits received from the Ponzi scheme even if taken in good faith, thereby increasing the amount
of funds available for distribution to all net losers. The winner would be entitled to a claim
in the estate for the funds returned. If a net winner returns profits to the estate pursuant to
a settlement generally trustees may succeed to obtain a waiver of such claims for return
of profits
.

[notorial dissent]

Not to make light of the people involved and their feelings, but at this point there is exactly nada that can be done. If the company is a scam, as it has every appearance of being, then it is, and you might as well accept, or at least be prepared to accept, the fact that the money is probably gone, and the only real resolution is going to come when the SEC, or state regulator, gets around to dealing with it. Until then, get your paperwork together, and COPIED, and DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT under any circumstances give originals of anything to anyone.

I realize that waiting is painful and frustrating and probably a lot of other things, and you might as well get used to it, it is going to be a fact of life.

[webhick]

Since the 1099s were issued, it goes without saying that NASI FILED THEM WITH THE IRS. So, we can assume these documents can be subpoenaed from the IRS!

Um, you might want to check that assumption. You can issue 1099s to people and never submit them to the IRS (same with W2s, by the way). It's really easy. You just don't mail them in at all. Of course, you'll hear from the IRS within a year because the investors claimed they got a 1099 but you didn't send the 1096 to the IRS. I've seen companies ignore up to three notices about a missing 1096 but I've never had the pleasure to see what happens beyond that.

[webhick]

Any suggestions for how we can know that some of the posts here and the yahoo victims group info are not from Joel/ED and Crew?

On the internet, there are no guarantees about identity. But, I can assure you that no admin (red name) or moderator (green name) here is NASI affiliated. You can also be reasonably sure that anyone who joined here prior to the existence of this thread is not NASI affiliated, since NASI didn't even bother with an internet presence until 2010 and joining here prior to the discussion would be an odd long con. I can check out each of the users who have posted to this thread and rule people out based on IP and email address, but I've been spot checking for sock puppets and I noticed that a number of the IPs hail from California, which is understandable.

Right now I'm the only member of that Yahoo Group, so there's at least that. And I allowed members to hide their email so NASI couldn't harass anyone. Well, via email anyway.

[grimreaper]

Since the 1099s were issued, it goes without saying that NASI FILED THEM WITH THE IRS. So, we can assume these documents can be subpoenaed from the IRS!

Um, you might want to check that assumption. You can issue 1099s to people and never submit them to the IRS (same with W2s, by the way). It's really easy. You just don't mail them in at all. Of course, you'll hear from the IRS within a year because the investors claimed they got a 1099 but you didn't send the 1096 to the IRS. I've seen companies ignore up to three notices about a missing 1096 but I've never had the pleasure to see what happens beyond that.

There you go. It's going to generate a RED FLAG right there. Besides, you can go to the bank issuing the checks!

[webhick]

Since the 1099s were issued, it goes without saying that NASI FILED THEM WITH THE IRS. So, we can assume these documents can be subpoenaed from the IRS!

Um, you might want to check that assumption. You can issue 1099s to people and never submit them to the IRS (same with W2s, by the way). It's really easy. You just don't mail them in at all. Of course, you'll hear from the IRS within a year because the investors claimed they got a 1099 but you didn't send the 1096 to the IRS. I've seen companies ignore up to three notices about a missing 1096 but I've never had the pleasure to see what happens beyond that.

There you go. It's going to generate a RED FLAG right there. Besides, you can go to the bank issuing the checks!

It's an automated procedural thing, not a RED FLAG. Christ, I doubt it triggers more than a fine - especially since that's all I've seen threatened.

[LaVidaRoja]

In some states (IIRC--CA) if you claim a deduction on your State return for payments made to third parties and have not filed the appropriate forms with the State, any deduction you claim for the payments WILL be disallowed.

[grimreaper]

Another familiar scam>>>

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts ... qus_thread

Bay Area man charged with nationwide ATM scam

By Tracey Kaplan

tkaplan@mercurynews.com

Posted: 03/12/2014 01:57:00 PM PDT6 Comments
Updated: 03/13/2014 06:24:51 AM PDT

To most Americans, paying exorbitant fees to use privately owned ATMs in markets, malls and airports feels like a real rip-off.

But for more than 100 investors from the San Francisco Bay Area and beyond, those ATMs have been an even bigger money drain.

Enticed by the promise of a 15 percent return, they invested millions of dollars in the actual machines, expecting to get a monthly check for a percentage of user fees that can go as high $4.50 per transaction. Only later did they find that they'd been fleeced in what prosecutors say was a Ponzi scheme run by a charming Foster City man.

Michael Brendan Ferguson, 44, has been charged so far with nine felonies, including securities fraud and grand theft. He pleaded not guilty and is being held in Santa Clara County Jail, with bail set at $1 million. Twenty-six investors showed up this week in response to his effort to get his bail lowered. The judge postponed the matter until April 7.

"Mike had that Ivy League look -- a crisp white shirt, tailored trousers," said San Jose resident Cheryl Palos, who lost $769,500, her entire life savings. "I'm telling you, he was slick."

Ferguson's high-powered lawyer, Josh Bentley, who also represents several prominent 49ers football players inn unrelated cases, did not respond Wednesday to requests for comment.
Advertisement

Prosecutor Victor Chen contends Ferguson may have started with honest intentions. But his business rapidly morphed into a scam that stretched over eight years, he said. Prosecutors allege Ferguson sold investors the rights to a percentage of user fees from a portfolio of ATMs located in shopping centers throughout the nation, or sold them ATMs plus a percentage of those fees. However, they allege, Ferguson did not own most of the machines and paid most of his clients with money from new investors.

"He knowingly sold ATMs he did not own or he sold the same ATMs more than once," said Chen, adding that Ferguson promised to return investors' principal upon request. "It only worked as long as he could keep new investor money coming in."

Ferguson maintained appearances by operating an office in San Francisco with a handful of employees, as well as by providing financial statements to investors purporting to show growth in his ATM business, Chen said.

The investors came from all walks of life, including a single mother with a severely disabled child who is on the brink of losing of her house and doesn't even have enough money to move home to North Carolina. Most learned about the "opportunity" via a neighbor, friend or relative. Many took money out of their 401(k)s or took a second loan out on their house.

Palos heard about Ferguson from her brother-in-law. Skeptical at first, she asked him to meet her at the food court of the Hillsdale shopping center off Highway 101 in San Mateo, where one of the ATMs she ultimately "bought" was located.

"Every question I asked, he answered," Palos said, "even, 'What if a bomb went off and the mall was destroyed, along with the ATM machine?' He said, 'There is insurance for that.' "

Palos eventually sunk her inheritance and proceeds from a divorce settlement into what she thought were 14 ATMs scattered around the country, as well as at least one other business Ferguson ran. For awhile, she was getting checks for $5,300 a month, about half of which went toward her rent.

When the checks stopped coming, she called the malls where her ATMs were supposedly located. No one had ever heard of her or Ferguson at any of the shopping centers, from San Mateo to Douglasville, Ga., to Forsythe, Ill.

That's when Palos called the FBI. Now, the investors have organized in hopes of getting back at least some of their money. Ferguson, whose schemes authorities say may have cost victims more than $10 million, declared bankruptcy in January.

Chen is looking for any hidden assets and hoping Ferguson agrees to pay some restitution as part of a plea deal. He currently faces up to 18 years and four months in prison.

Although Ferguson did not break into anyone's home, the prosecution alleges that he entered one victim's home with the intent to commit a felony -- grand theft -- which qualifies as burglary under California law. Burglary is considered a serious "strike" crime under the state's Three Strikes Law.

Kirk Bobo, of Boulder, Colo., invested $320,000 of his retirement savings with Ferguson. Now 55, his hopes of retiring while he is still relatively young are dashed.

"It's a huge hit," he said. "I had no idea Mike would pull a fraud like this."

[Lost Income]

Given that the return on our investment has stopped, it's appreciated that the SEC & FBI are are starting to investigate NAS. However, Joel & Ed deciding to stop sending checks and disappearing, is the current problem to resolve for many right now. In prior postings a couple people stated information per their direct or indirect relationship with Joel, so it would be helpful if those people could continue making contact with Joel and provide updated information regarding NAS's plan, for our evaluation.

[drgrey]

It's surprising to me that there's nothing in the papers-yet-about this issue/scheme/swindle/fraud (whatever it turns out to be). Would there be any value in someone making contact with an investigative reporter at, say, the Los Angeles Times?

[Lost Income]

Still the SEC & FBI websites have no info about their investigating this.

Can anyone please confirm the date, time, and location for the first NAS bankruptcy trial? Also, can anyone please suggest a website, phone number, case number, etc for finding further info on this NAS bankruptcy trial? Thanks!!

[webhick]

Still the SEC & FBI websites have no info about their investigating this.

Can anyone please confirm the date, time, and location for the first NAS bankruptcy trial? Also, can anyone please suggest a website, phone number, case number, etc for finding further info on this NAS bankruptcy trial? Thanks!!

Per the docket, the court date is 11/6 at 2 PM, Courtroom 301, 21041 Burbank Blvd, Woodland Hills, CA. Case No. 1:14-bk-14313.

If you want to look at the docket yourself, you can sign up for a pacer.gov account. It's not quite free. They charge $0.10 per page and bill quarterly, BUT if you rack up less than $15 in fees, it's waived. So, keep your fees under $15 per quarter and it's totally free.

[Lost Income]

Thank you webhick. Where can I find info like this on line?

[dawnth]

Can someone tell me how to get a copy of the involuntary bankruptcy filing? My custodial account requires me to provide proof in order to prove the ATM investment in my Roth IRA and that is the only proof they will accept. They want to charge me fees!
Thank you

[webhick]

The petition is here, courtesy of Wes.

You can always check out the docket at pacer.gov. I've got one current as of 9/26 uploaded to the Yahoo Group as well as my drive account here.

[Lost Income]

The Bankruptcy Petition appears to be from three different people/claims, totaling only $324k, and does not appear to be from another business. Could this be three investors grouped together to file breach of contract due to Joel stopping their pmts?

[MarvinGardens]

Can someone tell me how to get a copy of the involuntary bankruptcy filing? My custodial account requires me to provide proof in order to prove the ATM investment in my Roth IRA and that is the only proof they will accept. They want to charge me fees!
Thank you

You are spinning your wheels, "dawnth." NASI has not been shown to be bankrupt. What is it you want the custodian to do? The custodian will charge you management fees until you either sell your investment or show that the NASI contracts are worthless. As of now, they are not. Later, they may be proven to be.

But let me ask you a question, and if you can't or won't answer it I propose it to the greater community of investors.

Who is the IRA custodian that Joel recommends. (Insists on?)

[Lost Income]

When I invested two years ago, Joel said that he had partnered with "Pensco Trust" for IRA investments.

[MarvinGardens]

When I invested two years ago, Joel said that he had partnered with "Pensco Trust" for IRA investments.

From Pensco's website:

What we do (and don’t do)

As a self-directed IRA custodian, PENSCO is responsible for facilitating the initial investment and administering the assets in our clients’ accounts over the course of the assets lifetime. We manage the extensive recordkeeping required by the IRS and handle the reporting of contribution, distribution and investment activity within the account, including quarterly reports, processing of annual asset valuations and other documentation.

Investors and their advisors — not the IRA custodian — are solely responsible for evaluating the investment’s merits and suitability. PENSCO’s role is to determine if the investment may be administered in a self-directed IRA. We do not approve or endorse the actual investment.

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I post this to answer the question that has been asked through posts and PMs. "What reponsibility does the IRA custodian have for allowing fraudulent securities into your IRA?"

The short answer is usually, none, if it is a self directed IRA. And Pensco is.

Here is a good summary by the SEC: http://bit.ly/YIfFHa