Are social security cards mandatory?

[rogfulton]

...

I'm on a mobile so I can't put much, but let me then ask a grown up question.

Tax compliance was below 50% up until the 40's, why was not 50% of the population not prosecuted?

Assuming your figures are valid, the answer is: Because under the circumstances and with the technology of the era, it would have taken the other 50% of the population to conduct all the investigations and prosecutions.

Why is this a "grown up question?"

A better question may be "How is this a "grown up question?"

[LPC]

Tax compliance was below 50% up until the 40's, why was not 50% of the population not prosecuted?

Because the 50% who did not file tax returns were not required to.

[bmxninja357]

Tax compliance was below 50% up until the 40's, why was not 50% of the population not prosecuted?

while your busy statistic mining do you care to figure in what percent of the population at that point in american history had families with many offspring who were not of an age requiring a tax filing at that time. and while your doing that figure in what percentage of the population was well under any limits that required filing a return. remember before the 40's was the 30's. not a lot of money around to pay employees. or were they required to file a return for sustenance as wages or give a cut of the soup from the poor house to uncle sam? and what land do you live in that you think the tax laws and residency requirements did not change somewhere between the great depression and world war two?

im beginning to think your not using your powers of reasoning and observation.... at all.

ninj

[Dr. Caligari]

im beginning to think your not using your powers of reasoning and observation.... at all.

I'm beginning to think "Patriotdiscussions" doesn't have any powers of reasoning and observation... at all.

[Judge Roy Bean]

im beginning to think your not using your powers of reasoning and observation.... at all.

I'm beginning to think "Patriotdiscussions" doesn't have any powers of reasoning and observation... at all.

Again, at the risk of being redundant, PD falls into the category of "dogs chase cars, doesn't mean he knows how to drive."

And for the most part, it's so he can turn to other haunts and point to how much he's exercised the powers that be at Quatloos.

[Patriotdiscussions]

I thought the i-9 was for agro type companies and employees?

§ 274a.2 Verification of identity and employment authorization.
(a) General. This section establishes requirements and procedures for compliance by persons or entities when hiring, or when recruiting or referring for a fee, or when continuing to employ individuals in the United States.
(1) Recruiters and referrers for a fee. For purposes of complying with section 274A(b) of the Act and this section, all references to recruiters and referrers for a fee are limited to a person or entity who is either an agricultural association, agricultural employer, or farm labor contractor (as defined in section 3 of the Migrant and Seasonal Agricultural Worker Protection Act, Pub. L. 97-470 (29 U.S.C. 1802)).
(2) Verification form. Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification Form, is used in complying with the requirements of this 8 CFR 274a.1—274a.11.


What do you make of the bolded part?

8 CFR 274a is entitled Control of Employment of Aliens. For purposes of complying with federal law regarding migrant farm labor, references to recruiters and referrers for a fee mean agricultural employers and certain related entities. Note that the term employer is NOT so limited, and in fact is defined in 8 CFR 274a.1(g) as "a person or entity, including an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest thereof, who engages the services or labor of an employee to be performed in the United States for wages or other remuneration," with no limitation as to field of endeavor. The I-9 is used for every class and kind of employee.

Great point on the definition of employer from 274.a.1, lets look at another definition from the same code, because you know employers have to HIRE there employees.


(c) The term hire means the actual commencement of employment of an employee for wages or other remuneration. For purposes of section 274A(a)(4) of the Act and 8 CFR 274a.5, a hire occurs when a person or entity uses a contract, subcontract, or exchange entered into, renegotiated, or extended after November 6, 1986 (or, with respect to the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, after the transition program effective date as defined in 8 CFR 1.1), to obtain the labor of an alien in the United States, knowing that the alien is an unauthorized alien;

[AndyK]

PD is still obtusely focusing on language specific to a small part of the law relating specifically to employment of aliens within the United States and obtusely attempting to generalize it to apply other than where it specifically states.

PD still fails to accept that specific references in the law to "this section" or an enumerated section such as

For purposes of section 274A(a)(4) of the Act and 8 CFR 274a.5

are inherently and intentionally limiting and that they do not apply anywhere else UNLESS they are specifically referred to.

The thread questions have been asked and answered, asked again, twisted and answered AGAIN.

Time to turn the key on this one?

[Patriotdiscussions]

AUTHORITIES: The authority for collecting this information is the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, Public Law 99-603 (8 USC 1324a).
PURPOSE: This information is collected by employers to comply with the requirements of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. This law requires that employers verify the identity and employment authorization of individuals they hire for employment to preclude the unlawful hiring, or recruiting or referring for a fee, of aliens who are not authorized to work in the United States.
DISCLOSURE: Submission of the information required in this form is voluntary. However, failure of the employer to ensure proper completion of this form for each employee may result in the imposition of civil or criminal penalties. In addition, employing individuals knowing that they are unauthorized to work in the United States may subject the employer to civil and/or criminal penalties.

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/file ... rm/i-9.pdf





So what law makes it so us citizens have to fill out the I-9? Anyone have that statute number?

[Patriotdiscussions]

PD is still obtusely focusing on language specific to a small part of the law relating specifically to employment of aliens within the United States and obtusely attempting to generalize it to apply other than where it specifically states.

PD still fails to accept that specific references in the law to "this section" or an enumerated section such as

For purposes of section 274A(a)(4) of the Act and 8 CFR 274a.5

are inherently and intentionally limiting and that they do not apply anywhere else UNLESS they are specifically referred to.

The thread questions have been asked and answered, asked again, twisted and answered AGAIN.

Time to turn the key on this one?

Did I say 274.a.5 don't apply everywhere?

prev | next
§ 274a.5 Use of labor through contract.
Any person or entity who uses a contract, subcontract, or exchange entered into, renegotiated, or extended after November 6, 1986 (or, with respect to the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, after the transition program effective date as defined in 8 CFR 1.1), to obtain the labor or services of an alien in the United States knowing that the alien is an unauthorized alien with respect to performing such labor or services, shall be considered to have hired the alien for employment in the United States in violation of section 274A(a)(1)(A) of the Act.
[74 FR 55739, Oct. 28, 2009]

[Patriotdiscussions]

Where are the penaltys for hiring us citizens?


http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/8/274a.10

[Judge Roy Bean]

Where are the penaltys [sic] for hiring us citizens?


http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/8/274a.10

There are none.

[ontobserver]

AUTHORITIES: The authority for collecting this information is the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, Public Law 99-603 (8 USC 1324a).
PURPOSE: This information is collected by employers to comply with the requirements of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. This law requires that employers verify the identity and employment authorization of individuals they hire for employment to preclude the unlawful hiring, or recruiting or referring for a fee, of aliens who are not authorized to work in the United States.
DISCLOSURE: Submission of the information required in this form is voluntary. However, failure of the employer to ensure proper completion of this form for each employee may result in the imposition of civil or criminal penalties. In addition, employing individuals knowing that they are unauthorized to work in the United States may subject the employer to civil and/or criminal penalties.

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/file ... rm/i-9.pdf





So what law makes it so us citizens have to fill out the I-9? Anyone have that statute number?

Once again, PD, you have demonstrated that you can find documents, but not read and comprehend them. Did you read 8 USC 1324a? Of course not, otherwise, you wouldn't have to ask yet another stupidquestion.

(2) Individual attestation of employment authorization
The individual must attest, under penalty of perjury on the form designated or established for purposes of paragraph (1), that the individual is a citizen or national of the United States, an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence, or an alien who is authorized under this chapter or by the Attorney General to be hired, recruited, or referred for such employment. Such attestation may be manifested by either a hand-written or an electronic signature.

[Pottapaug1938]

PD would be much happier on Saving to Suitors or some such site. For one thing, his legal fantasies will not be challenged; and for another, he can brag (as I'm sure he intended to do all along) about how he posed many questions on Quatloos which the big ol' meanies here couldn't or wouldn't answer.

[Patriotdiscussions]

AUTHORITIES: The authority for collecting this information is the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, Public Law 99-603 (8 USC 1324a).
PURPOSE: This information is collected by employers to comply with the requirements of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. This law requires that employers verify the identity and employment authorization of individuals they hire for employment to preclude the unlawful hiring, or recruiting or referring for a fee, of aliens who are not authorized to work in the United States.
DISCLOSURE: Submission of the information required in this form is voluntary. However, failure of the employer to ensure proper completion of this form for each employee may result in the imposition of civil or criminal penalties. In addition, employing individuals knowing that they are unauthorized to work in the United States may subject the employer to civil and/or criminal penalties.

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/file ... rm/i-9.pdf





So what law makes it so us citizens have to fill out the I-9? Anyone have that statute number?

Once again, PD, you have demonstrated that you can find documents, but not read and comprehend them. Did you read 8 USC 1324a? Of course not, otherwise, you wouldn't have to ask yet another stupidquestion.

(2) Individual attestation of employment authorization
The individual must attest, under penalty of perjury on the form designated or established for purposes of paragraph (1), that the individual is a citizen or national of the United States, an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence, or an alien who is authorized under this chapter or by the Attorney General to be hired, recruited, or referred for such employment. Such attestation may be manifested by either a hand-written or an electronic signature.

Are you trying to say that MANDATES us citizens to fill out the i9 form?

Because all it really says is those who fill out the form must proclaim they are a citizen,resident, lawful alien,etc.

Also notice the hire,recruited and refered at the bottom all deal with aliens according to every definition in that section of code.

[Patriotdiscussions]

PD would be much happier on Saving to Suitors or some such site. For one thing, his legal fantasies will not be challenged; and for another, he can brag (as I'm sure he intended to do all along) about how he posed may questions on Quatloos which the big ol' meanies here couldn't or wouldn't answer.

Confirmation bias does no theory any good, but thanks.

[Patriotdiscussions]

Dbl post

[Patriotdiscussions]

AUTHORITIES: The authority for collecting this information is the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, Public Law 99-603 (8 USC 1324a).
PURPOSE: This information is collected by employers to comply with the requirements of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. This law requires that employers verify the identity and employment authorization of individuals they hire for employment to preclude the unlawful hiring, or recruiting or referring for a fee, of aliens who are not authorized to work in the United States.
DISCLOSURE: Submission of the information required in this form is voluntary. However, failure of the employer to ensure proper completion of this form for each employee may result in the imposition of civil or criminal penalties. In addition, employing individuals knowing that they are unauthorized to work in the United States may subject the employer to civil and/or criminal penalties.

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/file ... rm/i-9.pdf





So what law makes it so us citizens have to fill out the I-9? Anyone have that statute number?

Once again, PD, you have demonstrated that you can find documents, but not read and comprehend them. Did you read 8 USC 1324a? Of course not, otherwise, you wouldn't have to ask yet another stupidquestion.

(2) Individual attestation of employment authorization
The individual must attest, under penalty of perjury on the form designated or established for purposes of paragraph (1), that the individual is a citizen or national of the United States, an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence, or an alien who is authorized under this chapter or by the Attorney General to be hired, recruited, or referred for such employment. Such attestation may be manifested by either a hand-written or an electronic signature.

Notice your red outline? What are the purposes of paragraph 1

[ontobserver]

AUTHORITIES: The authority for collecting this information is the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, Public Law 99-603 (8 USC 1324a).
PURPOSE: This information is collected by employers to comply with the requirements of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. This law requires that employers verify the identity and employment authorization of individuals they hire for employment to preclude the unlawful hiring, or recruiting or referring for a fee, of aliens who are not authorized to work in the United States.
DISCLOSURE: Submission of the information required in this form is voluntary. However, failure of the employer to ensure proper completion of this form for each employee may result in the imposition of civil or criminal penalties. In addition, employing individuals knowing that they are unauthorized to work in the United States may subject the employer to civil and/or criminal penalties.

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/file ... rm/i-9.pdf





So what law makes it so us citizens have to fill out the I-9? Anyone have that statute number?

Once again, PD, you have demonstrated that you can find documents, but not read and comprehend them. Did you read 8 USC 1324a? Of course not, otherwise, you wouldn't have to ask yet another stupidquestion.

(2) Individual attestation of employment authorization
The individual must attest, under penalty of perjury on the form designated or established for purposes of paragraph (1), that the individual is a citizen or national of the United States, an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence, or an alien who is authorized under this chapter or by the Attorney General to be hired, recruited, or referred for such employment. Such attestation may be manifested by either a hand-written or an electronic signature.

Notice your red outline? What are the purposes of paragraph 1

Why don't you read it and tell us what YOU think it means?

[Patriotdiscussions]

Explains itself really



(1) Attestation after examination of documentation
(A) In general
The person or entity must attest, under penalty of perjury and on a form designated or established by the Attorney General by regulation, that it has verified that the individual is not an unauthorized alien by examining—
(i) a document described in subparagraph (B), or
(ii) a document described in subparagraph (C) and a document described in subparagraph (D).
Such attestation may be manifested by either a hand-written or an electronic signature. A person or entity has complied with the requirement of this paragraph with respect to examination of a document if the document reasonably appears on its face to be genuine. If an individual provides a document or combination of documents that reasonably appears on its face to be genuine and that is sufficient to meet the requirements of the first sentence of this paragraph, nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as requiring the person or entity to solicit the production of any other document or as requiring the individual to produce such another document.

[ontobserver]

Explains itself really



(1) Attestation after examination of documentation
(A) In general
The person or entity must attest, under penalty of perjury and on a form designated or established by the Attorney General by regulation, that it has verified that the individual is not an unauthorized alien by examining—
(i) a document described in subparagraph (B), or
(ii) a document described in subparagraph (C) and a document described in subparagraph (D).
Such attestation may be manifested by either a hand-written or an electronic signature. A person or entity has complied with the requirement of this paragraph with respect to examination of a document if the document reasonably appears on its face to be genuine. If an individual provides a document or combination of documents that reasonably appears on its face to be genuine and that is sufficient to meet the requirements of the first sentence of this paragraph, nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as requiring the person or entity to solicit the production of any other document or as requiring the individual to produce such another document.

Okay, so you've confirmed that you can look things up, and I'm pretty much sure that everyone here agrees that it explains itself, however, I doubt that anyone else here interprets it the way you do. Why don't you explain what you think it means and how it doesn't require a form to be completed for a US citizen?