Why Conspiracy Theories Are Embraced

[The Observer]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... .VJgz0sA3s

[Deep Knight]

Some conspiracies are equally appealing to the left and right.

Oh, come on. We all know that "those people" are more apt to believe this nonsense than people like us. That's because our beliefs are logical and 100% true, while their beliefs are not only false, they are unfashionable and dated.

The brain did not evolve to process information about industrial economies, terrorism or medicine, but about survival in the wild. This includes a tendency to assume that unseen predators are lurking or that coincidental events are somehow related.

At Illuminati Headquarters unseen predators DO lurk in the hallways, it's part of our new "fast tracks" program to eliminate employees who don't have that "edge" that makes new hires successful.

[DailyPlanet]

Why the Truth is embraced :
Because it is true.
1/
Does anyone here still believe the "official story" of 9/11?
I am genuinely curious about that... and these:
2/
Does anyone here believe more than (some low percentage) of what is reported in the Mainstream Media?
3/
Does anyone here think that US elections give fair choice to We The People,
rather than just serving up pre-selected candidates, who will simply behave as puppets?

I think the recent Editorial by the NY Times (see below) is a sign that even the MSM is being forced to accept that people are fed up with the lies being fed by the media and politicians.

WATERSHED EVENT?
Is that what is editorial was:

xx SEE POST BELOW xx

(Isn't it time that people here started embracing some Truths outside the mainstream?)

[The Observer]

(Isn't it time that people here started embracing some Truths outside the mainstream?)

Depends on your defintion of what "truth" is. If by "truth" you mean that we have to embrace your whacky belief in the 9-11 attacks as being a governmental conspiracy, then no, it isn't time for anyone here to do any embracing. But I would say it is time for you to remove your tinfoil hat and open your mind to Occam's Razor.

[Pottapaug1938]

I was just rereading Loren Collins' excellent book "Bullspotting", in which I am reminded of so many of our resident goofballs, like DP. He talks about things like denialism, anomaly hunting, conspiracism and the like; and he uses 9/11 as an example. People like DP are unable to accept the fact that something which Just Wasn't Fair caused that horror; and with preconceived notions about evil conspiracies being responsible for so many of history's evils, they deny the veracity or conclusiveness of the evidence, or even its very existence, all while "just asking". Then, if you try "just answering", they "move the goalposts", and use logical fallacies and unscientific evidence to insulate their passionately-believed conspiracist fantasies from reality.

[DailyPlanet]

The Truth has come out about 9/11 from various sources, and especially from Veterans Today.

Those who rely on the Mainstream Media, will be shocked when they (finally, belatedly) embrace it.

Just as some were shocked when the NY Times came out with this gem:

Prosecute Torturers and Their Bosses

These are, simply, crimes. They are prohibited by federal law, which defines torture as the intentional infliction of “severe physical or mental pain or suffering.” They are also banned by the Convention Against Torture, the international treaty that the United States ratified in 1994 and that requires prosecution of any acts of torture.

So it is no wonder that today’s blinkered apologists are desperate to call these acts anything but torture, which they clearly were. As the report reveals, these claims fail for a simple reason: C.I.A. officials admitted at the time that what they intended to do was illegal.
. . .
Any credible investigation should include former Vice President Dick Cheney; Mr. Cheney’s chief of staff, David Addington; the former C.I.A. director George Tenet; and John Yoo and Jay Bybee, the Office of Legal Counsel lawyers who drafted what became known as the torture memos. There are many more names that could be considered, including Jose Rodriguez Jr., the C.I.A. official who ordered the destruction of the videotapes; the psychologists who devised the torture regimen; and the C.I.A. employees who carried out that regimen.
==
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/opini ... .html?_r=0

Why is the NYT after Cheney?
VT has said he planned and ran 9/11.
But he did not do it alone. He had help.
Probably from Mossad and Israel.
Maybe the NYT wants Cheney "disappear", before he reveals his involvement
with parties so very close to the NY Times and its owners.

Life is full of Conspiracies, they happen all the time.
If you think you are dismissing someone by using the label, you are wrong.
You might as well label them "Realists."
The Wake Up call is ringing. You'd better answer, or be left behind.
Many are already awake.

(As you know, I do not buy into everything. But I woke up long ago. Join me.)

[bmxninja357]

Conspiracy Theorists Aren't Crazy
We usually dismiss conspiracy theorists as crazy people; but that doesn't tell the whole story.

http://skeptoid.com/audio/skeptoid-4264.mp3

or read it if ya like: http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4264

peace,
ninj

[davids]

The Truth has come out about 9/11 from various sources, and especially from Veterans Today.

...

Those who rely on the Mainstream Media, will be shocked when they (finally, belatedly) embrace it.

Just as some were shocked when the NY Times came out with this gem:

Prosecute Torturers and Their Bosses

...

Life is full of Conspiracies, they happen all the time.
If you think you are dismissing someone by using the label, you are wrong.
You might as well label them "Realists."
The Wake Up call is ringing. You'd better answer, or be left behind.
Many are already awake.

(As you know, I do not buy into everything. But I woke up long ago. Join me.)

I put in italics the parts of the above quote that I find suspect.

I will address the line of defense that you used, because it is the most commonly used by what we call "conspiracy theorists:" that Conspiracies happen "all the time" therefore it is okay to be what we commonly refer to as a "conspiracy theorist" who believes that there was no Sandy Hook shooting, that Elvis is still alive, that Bigfoot gets together with Hitler every year at the South Pole to celebrate Christmas, that the Maya apocalypse is gonna happen/ already did happen, Nibiru, Plieadians, and all various and sundry other kinds of raving bullcrap that one can find on the interwebs.

First of all, of course people "conspire." People get together and plan things. Duh.

But there is a group of persons who seem to believe anything that share certain characteristics, that are called conspiracy theorists. They are marked by a belief in not just one "conspiracy" that the mainstream has failed to accept, but a whole host of others as well. In fact, they are almost "conspiracy enthusiasts" when one considers how eager they are to embrace the unlikely theories that come out. With some of them, the crazier and less likely, the better!

We call them conspiracy theorists, as a shorthand way of referring to them. The use of that term in no way means that there is no such thing as a legitimate conspiracy. Many lawsuits contain "agency and conspiracy" allegations, for example; to win those there is a burden of proof associated with that however. If you have a term you prefer, let us know, we can use it too.

The dislike of conspiracy theorists/ enthusiasts doesn't either mean that no theory that exists outside of the mainstream ever comes true. It was at one point a conspiracy theory to suggest we didn't have a really good reason to invade Iraq in 2003 and that Bush et al were telling porkies when they went to the U.N. to garner support for the war effort. It turns out that was proven to MOST of us eventually, however.

But it is one thing to have specialized knowledge and judgment, and to thereby be ahead of the curve in understanding an event. It is another entirely to just buy crazy bullcrap because some dude with an internet connection, who talks about every other crazy theory that comes down the pike, happens to have found yet another conspiracy. And let me guess, the new conspiracy will involve dark, mysterious forces, evil persons in power, coverups by politicians, media, and its belief will often require acceptance of some unproven science that neither the person reporting or his/her dupe knows anything about, or some subject that neither have truly ever studied, or to believe in something that hasn't been ever proven or provable to either of them.

Put it all in a big vat and stir. Voila! Conspiratard surprise!

Take Sandy Hook for instance. There is more ridiculous questionable thinking on this subject that almost anything, the death of Paul Walker possibly excluded. Many of the factual assertions made can actually be checked. One can research family backgrounds, residences, death records, etc. Yet this crazy theory has become a rallying cry for nut jobs, in basements all over America!

[DailyPlanet]

I think of these conspiracy ideas as being on a spectrum.
From certainly True and Proved (like the Manhattan Project).
To certainly untrue and impossible (the Dinar RV fantasy).
In between are a whole range of ideas, from near-certain, to likely, to unlikely, to near impossible.

Later, when I have more time, I will try to arrange maybe 10-12 ideas on this spectrum, and see if that might aid discussion here.

[LightinDarkness]

The problem with conspiracy theorists is that they - like DP in this very thread - do not seem to be able to get the difference between "yes, some conspiracies are real" and "EVERYTHING IS A CONSPIRACY WHEN I WANT TO BELIEVE IT IS TRUE."

For example, DP is obsessed with 9/11 trutherism - it is the thing he mentions in every thread where he starts going off the deep end. Yes, 9/11 was a conspiracy - a conspiracy by extremists to fly planes into the WTC buildings and pentagon to cause mass panic. And indeed, it worked! Mission successful, mass panic ensued. That is the conspiracy. It is quite real.

But they don't want to believe in the real conspiracy. They would rather conjure delusions of Bush and Cheney hatching a plot to go to war and cackling evilly as they planned an "inside job." That is not a real conspiracy. That is the feverish delusion of crazy people.

[DailyPlanet]

NAME_CALLING - Revenge is Sweet

I am going to collect the names that people throw at me for being an open-minded Truth seeker, and then I will return to this thread in a year or so, and throw them back at the name-callers, so they can give me an apology AFTER the so-called Conspiracy theories are accepted as Truth.

So far, I have seen :

Name --------------- : Caller----------- : Concerning--------- :
"whacky"------------ : TheObserver--- : 9/11 Truth
"resident goofball" : Pottapaug------ : 9/11?, anomolies
"raving bullcrap"-- : Bovine, flat. --- : General
"obsessed"---------- : LightinDarkness : 9/11 Truth

Keep them coming guys. It will be fascinating to see how you graciously you each eat your words. (haha)
=====
LID says:
"Yes, 9/11 was a conspiracy - a conspiracy by extremists to fly planes into the WTC buildings and pentagon to cause mass panic..."
If he really believes that, he is in a shrinking minority that believes the implausible official story.

[LightinDarkness]

Oh for the love of god stop trying to play the martyr. If you live in a world where being called "obsessed" is somehow calling you a name you really need to get over yourself.

Also, please stop lying about what people believe on 9/11. To begin with it doesn't matter what the general population thinks. To correlate something being true because a majority of people believe it is argument ad populum, and it is a logical fallacy. But it doesn't really matter since you are wrong on that point and you've been debunked before - most of the population does not believe in 9/11 conspiracy theories. At most, in really badly worded polls paid for by truthers which are designed to provoke this exact response, you might get a majority who say that there was "more to 9/11" - which does not mean they believe in truther conspiracies. In polls run by professional and legitimate polling firms you don't even get that, because they don't word things to provoke a particular response they wish were true.

[Pottapaug1938]

NAME_CALLING - Revenge is Sweet

I am going to collect the names that people throw at me for being an open-minded Truth seeker, and then I will return to this thread in a year or so, and throw them back at the name-callers, so they can give me an apology AFTER the so-called Conspiracy theories are accepted as Truth.

So far, I have seen :

Name --------------- : Caller----------- : Concerning--------- :
"whacky"------------ : TheObserver--- : 9/11 Truth
"resident goofball" : Pottapaug------ : 9/11?, anomolies
"raving bullcrap"-- : Bovine, flat. --- : General
"obsessed"---------- : LightinDarkness : 9/11 Truth

Keep them coming guys. It will be fascinating to see how you graciously you each eat your words. (haha)
=====
LID says:
"Yes, 9/11 was a conspiracy - a conspiracy by extremists to fly planes into the WTC buildings and pentagon to cause mass panic..."
If he really believe that, he is in a shrinking minority that believes the implausible official story.

Check back in a year, and I will repeat what I just said -- WITHOUT an apology.

[DailyPlanet]

I am not playing the martyr at all, LID.

Just holding up a mirror to the people here. And I will show patience, in revisiting this issue.

I have proven by discernment skills more times than you know. If you were smart, you would not bet against me.

There must be a reason that belief in the "official story of 9/11" is shrinking. More and more contrary evidence is coming out, and people are beginning to understand that the Mainstream media is full of lies.

- Isn't the flip-flop on:

+ The fact that the government is constantly spying on its citizens (Snowden)
+ The silly blame games that were played with Syria, on its gas, and Russia, on the takedown of the Malaysian aircraft
+ The reality that laws were broken to torture people (see NYT editorial, above)

...Sufficient proof THAT the MSM is doing a really lousy job of investigating news stories. They mainly report what they are TOLD to report. Is that not obvious to everyone by now?

The only in-depth investigations seem to be done by freelance reporters and ordinary people on the internet. They don't always get it right, but you should give out the respect that many have earned.

[Pottapaug1938]

I am not playing the martyr at all, LID.

Just holding up a mirror to the people here. And I will show patience, in revisiting this issue.

I have proven by discernment skills more times than you know. If you were smart, you would not bet against me.

There must be a reason that belief in the "official story of 9/11" is shrinking. More and more contrary evidence is coming out, and people are beginning to understand that the Mainstream media is full of lies.

- Isn't the flip-flop on:

+ The fact that the government is constantly spying on its citizens (Snowden)
+ The silly blame games that were played with Syria, on its gas, and Russia, on the takedown of the Malaysian aircraft
+ The reality that laws were broken to torture people (see NYT editorial, above)

...Sufficient proof THAT the MSM is doing a really lousy job of investigating news stories. They mainly report what they are TOLD to report. Is that not obvious to everyone by now?

The only in-depth investigations seem to be done by freelance reporters and ordinary people on the internet. They don't always get it right, but you should give out the respect that many have earned.

I'm at work, and don't have the time to give you the response which your fantasies deserve; but I highly recommend that you take a look at Loren Collins's book "Bullspotting". Among other things, it does an excellent job of demolishing the premises behind troofer fantasies about 9/11.

[LightinDarkness]

I love how DP says we should just trust him on all this because he has "discernment" and then self-congradulates himself on having "patience"

For the record, once again -

(1) The number of people that believe in the "official story" (AKA what really happened) is not going down. Period. Even if it was, it would mean nothing and to imply otherwise is a fallacy.
(2) The examples you cite (Snowden, NYT editorial) are actually perfect examples of why the things you believe in are wrong. Snowden was a 24/7 media circus for an entire year. The information that spawned that NYT editorial was from DOCUMENTS DECLASSIFIED AND RELEASED VOLUNTARILY BY THE GOVERNMENT. If we lived in the conspiracy-laden world you so desperately believe in, Snowden would have been killed and there would have been a media blackout. The government also wouldn't have been so stupid as to voluntarily release its own reports on torture.

[Pottapaug1938]

In Charles P. Pierce's excellent book "Idiot America", he devotes a chapter to, among other things, the various conspiracies involving Freemasonry. In the course of his research, he visits Masonic lodge in Newton, Massachusetts, which happens to be the same one of which my father and three of his best friends and fellow parishioners at our church happened to be members (two of them became Worshipful Masters of the lodge). At one point, Pierce quotes a lodge official as saying something like "if people think that we Freemasons have an ongoing conspiracy to run the world, they ought to see us try to organize and run our annual dinner. Having heard stories about the lodge from Dad and his friends, and from seeing the lodge in action myself, both as a guest and as a member of DeMolay (the youth affiliate) for a couple of years, it's hard to think of a group less capable of running an airtight conspiracy than the Freemasons; yet there are people around who will explain to you, in great and verbose length, about how the Masons are able to run an airtight conspiracy. Facts only confuse and disturb them.

[bmxninja357]

ya know not 'believing' the official story is not the same as believing conspiracy theories on 9/11. not by a long shot. the truth is we will never know 100% what happened on that dark day. however the best evidence on hand and a bit of artistic use of occams razor was needed to speedily placate a scared and angry nation.

i do not think that there was a government conspiracy to kill its own people that existed on that day. in fact its an insult to those who perished on that day. at its core there was some pissed off religiously motivated nut jobs who crashed some planes into some buildings.

if there was any type of conspiracy by certain corporations or government officials it happened after the fact. no one who likes control or profit would let a good disaster go to waste. and i dont believe they did.

but the event itself was only a failure of national security and some nut jobs who stole planes and nothing more.

but arguing with truthers is pointless. as theories get dis-proven they will simply raise the bar, use arguments from verbosity and will never stop rewriting the event basing it on a belief and not hard fact.

not buying into the whole official story does not make a truther. it simply means some of us understand its hard to know all the facts when the perpetrators are dead from the act of terror they committed. it dosent even mean the writers were attempting to be deceptive. in fact when many anti gov types get on a bent like 9/11 truthers have it would not have mattered at all what the official story was. old alex jones(or his ilk) would have said its the opposite. and truther types would have swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

peace,
ninj

[Gregg]

Does anyone here still believe the "official story" of 9/11?
I am genuinely curious about that... and these:

I won't dignify the rest of your post but I do want to emphatically answer this one. On 9/11 I was visiting Washington DC, at while driving (mostly sitting, Arlington traffic) on the George Washington parkway I looked up and thought "that fucker is way too low even if its landing at Reagan" and watched...horrified...as it flew just over my field of view and exploded. So don't you fucking dare come and try to tell me it was a missile, or that our government did it or any of your other pure phucking fantasy stories. I saw and you didn't, shut the phuck up.

Crazy people who hate America did it, even crazier people who hate America make up stories about it to make themselves feel important,

Deal with it.

[Gregg]

I was just rereading Loren Collins' excellent book "Bullspotting", in which I am reminded of so many of our resident goofballs, like DP. He talks about things like denialism, anomaly hunting, conspiracism and the like; and he uses 9/11 as an example. People like DP are unable to accept the fact that something which Just Wasn't Fair caused that horror; and with preconceived notions about evil conspiracies being responsible for so many of history's evils, they deny the veracity or conclusiveness of the evidence, or even its very existence, all while "just asking". Then, if you try "just answering", they "move the goalposts", and use logical fallacies and unscientific evidence to insulate their passionately-believed conspiracist fantasies from reality.

Exactly. C'mon, DP, ask me...I'm a licensed pilot with 2300 hours, I can tell the difference between a Boeing passenger jet and a cruise missile. So ask me, or ask the at least tens of thousands of people in NYC what they saw hit the second building while they stared at the first one. Or the people who saw it live on TV?