National Liberty Alliance - Citizen Grand Juries

[fortinbras]

A recent (Nov. 20th, 2014) posting on the Obama Birfer Debunking site:

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2014/11/ ... ury-crank/

[Chados]

Just a point of order.

Section 817.38 Fla. Stat. is a misdemeanor.

I use s. 843.0855 where I can legally and properly do so. Because (1) it is a felony either of the third degree or second depending on how many prior for the same thing the defendant has, and (2) the F3 scores prison under our state's sentencing scheme. I have used it both successfully...and not successfully...depending on the presiding judge. I think I'm something like 5-1 overall using it.

[BBFlatt]

Link to audio of 12/12/2014 Faretta hearing for Terry Trussel:

https://soundcloud.com/jasonwhoyt/raw-m ... -county-fl (55 min)

[fortinbras]

A video and audio of Trussel's Dec 12th hearing (evidently the court's own video), runs 1 hour 7 minutes.

http://thehighlandsteaparty.com/?p=17719

I am sure we'd all be grateful if someone would save us the misery of listening to this very slow dialog and just summarize the craziness for us.

[davids]

I have to admit that I listened to about half the audio the other day, then watched the remainder of it on video. No, I didn't bill anyone for that hour of wasted time.

It was surprisingly dry. Mr. Trussell seems like a nice old bloke, a little stiff, and unfortunately has obviously been duped into believing all the sovereign citizen tripe, in addition to the more dangerous (to him) lie that he is better off representing himself in court.

The most entertaining part for me came about 46:30, where Mr. Trussell complains that every time he spoke to a public official at the courthouse about his desire to have the govt fund his sovcit fake grand jury exercise, he would be met with silence. Immediately following that, no one in the courtroom spoke for an elongated period of time. It was poignant, and funny. Almost like the judge realized the humor in it and stayed quiet intentionally.

Finally, Trussell trundled on, making amateur lawyer common mistake number 1 million, by assuming that any minute defect in the proceedings should result in the "dismissal of all charges." Wrong. Oh well, there's always the food to look forward to.

The prosecuting attorney does comment on the fact that Trussell had been filing his motions in nonexistent courts, and then incorrectly serving them on the prosecutor.

At the end of the tape, the sound cuts off, but one can see Trussell approach the prosecutor and stand there waving his arms around like he's bewildered. In which case, one might think, he should get a lawyer.

[fortinbras]

Judging from some comments on other websites, Trussel's trial begins (with jury selection) on Feb. 9th.

[Paths of the Sea]

Judging from some comments on other websites, Trussel's trial begins (with jury selection) on Feb. 9th.

That's the same date for the Hovind/Hansen trial in federal district court in Pensacola.

Sincerely,
Maury Enthusiast!

[Arthur Rubin]

Judging from some comments on other websites, Trussel's trial begins (with jury selection) on Feb. 9th.

That's the same date for the Hovind/Hansen trial in federal district court in Pensacola.

Sincerely,
Maury Enthusiast!

Decisions, decision...

[bobhurt]

I have read the Terry Trussell saga and commented to the gurus of the CLGJ regarding the wisdom of their ambitions and methods. And I have read Florida's constitutions and laws regarding Grand Juries. Regardless of misguided efforts by the various GJ groups and operatives like Trussell, I see a degree of merit to their work, and little excuse for what amounts to official SLAPP oppression of GJ activists. Here's why:

Florida Constitution acknowledges the power of the GJ to investigate capital crimes, but THAT does not constitute the sole authority for its power. Furthermore, Florida statutes oblige a Grand Juror to investigate any crime of which he has knowledge. As to the power of the court to challenge a grand juror, the law strictly limits that power to circumstances that don't apply in Trussell's case. As to powers of the court and state attorney to interfere with the impanelment or function of the Grand Jury, the reader might find the Florida Bar Journal Article on Florida Common Law Jurisdiction instructive. See http://goo.gl/yPqGTd.

In particular, the Legislature may not pass a law that removes a common law right except by replacing it with a suitable statutory substitute, Kluger v. White, 281 So. 2d 1 (Fla. 1973). To the extent the statutes allow the court to defeat the proper functioning of the Grand Jury with respect to providing presentments or indictments against public officers, particularly judges in a position to interfere, the present law for petite juries which applies to grand juries, does seem to conflict with that opinion.

Unfortunately, Trussell does not appear to have consulted that opinion in a challenge to the high-handedness of the state attorney and the court to defeat the GJ investigation of local officials. Nor did he seek the assistance of the AG in suing the Judge/State Attorney under Florida Statute 760.51.

But from what I can tell, the law does provide for multiple grand juries per county, and does not restrict grand juries to those controlled by the clerk. And it makes no sense that the courts or legislature should subvert the core reasons for the grand jury - to prevent overzealous prosecutions in felonies (it should investigate and challenge the prosecutor on the trussell criminal charge), and to investigate official malfeasance, racketeering, and conspiracies, such as that calculated to destroy the life of Terry Trussell.

I have told several operatives of the CLGJ that they should pool their resources and sue for declaratory judgment and injunction regarding their separate grand jury efforts before "winging it." They ignored me.

But, without a doubt, the grand jury system in Florida needs a serious overhaul. The Florida Constitution of 1838 wisely gave juries the power to determine fact and law:

Article I Section 15. That in all prosecutions and indictments for libel, the truth may be given in evidence; and if it shall appear to the jury that the libel is true, and published with good motives and for justifiable ends, the truth shall be a justification; and the jury shall be the judges of the law and facts.

The Florida Constitution of 1868 contained this revealing Declaration of Rights language about grand jury powers over capital and infamous crimes:

Article I Section 8. No person shall be tried for a capital or otherwise infamous crime, except in cases of impeachment, and in cases of the militia when in active service in time of war, or which the State may keep, with the consent of Congress, in time of peace, and in cases of petit larceny, under the regulation of the Legislature, unless on presentment and indictment by a grand jury; and in any trial, by any court, the party accused shall be allowed to appear and defend in person and with counsel, as in civil actions. No person shall be subject to be twice put in jeopardy for the same offense, nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken without just compensation.

Article VI Section 12. Grand and petit jurors shall be taken from the registered voters of the respective counties.

The Florida Constitution of 1885 did not require grand juries to investigate "infamous" crimes, but made it optional to investigate ALL offenses:

Article I Section 10. No person shall be tried for a capital crime or other felony, unless on presentment or indictment by grand jury, except as is otherwise provided in this Constitution, and except in cases of impeachment, and in cases in the militia when in active service in time of war, or which the State, with the consent of Congress, may keep, in time of peace.

Article V Section 28. All offenses triable in said Court shall be prosecuted upon information under oath, to be filed by the prosecuting attorney, but the grand jury of the Circuit Court for the county in which said Criminal Court is held may indict for offenses triable in the Criminal Court. Upon the finding of such indictment the Circuit Judge shall commit or bail the accused for trial in the Criminal Court, which trial shall be upon information.

The Florida Constitution of 1868 seems to have continued polluting the protection to criminal defendants afforded by the Grand Jury process, but still left the Grand Jury with common law power to investigate crimes:

Article I Section 15. Prosecution for Crime; Offenses Committed by Children.

(a) No person shall be tried for capital crime without presentment or indictment by a grand jury, or for other felony without such presentment or indictment or an information under oath filed by the prosecuting officer of the court, exc ept persons on active duty in the militia when tried by courts martial.

(b) When authorized by law, a child as therein defined may be charged with a violation of law as an act of delinquency instead of crime and tried without a jury or other requirements applicable to criminal cases. Any child so charged s hall, upon demand made as provided by law before a trial in a juvenile proceeding, be tried in an appropriate court as an adult. A child found delinquent shall be disciplined as provided by law.

Section 16. Rights of Accused. In all criminal prosecutions the accused shall, upon demand, be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation against him, and shall be furnished a copy of the charges, and shall have the right to have compulsory process for witnesses, to confront at trial adverse witnesses, to be heard in person, by counsel or both, and to have a speedy and public trial by impartial jury in the county where the crime was committed. If the county is not known, th e indictment or information may charge venue in two or more counties conjunctively and proof that the crime was committed in that area shall be sufficient; but before pleading the accused may elect in which of those counties he will be tried. Venue for p rosecution of crimes committed beyond the boundaries of the state shall be fixed by law.

Article V Section 9. Criminal Courts of Record. (5) Indictment and Information. All offenses triable in said court shall be prosecuted upon information under oath, to be filed by the prosecuting attorney, but the grand jury of the circuit court for the county in which said criminal court is held may indict for offenses triable in the criminal court. Upon the finding of such indictment the circuit judge shall commit or bail the accused for trial in the criminal court, which trial shall be upon information.

(emphasis added)

As I see it, by interfering with Trussell's efforts, the court violated the Constitutional authority of the Dixie County Grand Jury, irrespective of Trussell's efforts to get that indictment through the efforts of the CLGJ.

To me it makes no sense to line up in opposition to the court and state attorney without first building a war chest and array of powerful allies, and finding competent legal counsel willing to take them on. That doesn't make Trussell wrong. It just makes him look ill-prepared and naive.

[Famspear]

....In particular, the [Florida] Legislature may not pass a law that removes a common law right except by replacing it with a suitable statutory substitute, Kluger v. White, 281 So. 2d 1 (Fla. 1973).....

Sort of. Not exactly. Here's what the Court said in that case:

It is essential, therefore, that this Court consider whether or not the Legislature is, in fact, empowered to abolish a common law and statutory right of action without providing an adequate alternative.

Upon careful consideration of the requirements of society, and the ever-evolving character of the law, we cannot adopt a complete prohibition against such legislative change. Nor can we adopt a view which would allow the Legislature to destroy a traditional and long-standing cause of action upon mere legislative whim, or when an alternative approach is available.

We hold, therefore, that where a right of access to the courts for redress for a particular injury has been provided by statutory law predating the adoption of the Declaration of Rights of the Constitution of the State of Florida, or where such right has become a part of the common law of the State pursuant to Fla. Stat. § 2.01, F.S.A., the Legislature is without power to abolish such a right without providing a reasonable alternative to protect the rights of the people of the State to redress for injuries, unless the Legislature can show an overpowering public necessity for the abolishment of such right, and no alternative method of meeting such public necessity can be shown.

(large font added).

So, under the Florida Constitution, the Legislature can indeed pass a law that removes a common law right without replacing it with a statutory substitute (suitable or otherwise)-- under the limited conditions laid out by the Court.

However, I digress.

[notorial dissent]

Bob, it’s nice to see you’re still the same wingnut you’ve always been.

By the way, how does it feel to have been dismissed as inconsequential and of no value by a set of nutters even crazier and less in contact with reality than you are? Must sting just a bit, or at least it would if you had any sense.

It would seem from your latest scrawlings that you don’t know the difference between a petit jury and a grand jury, not that it is surprising, just that it is a fact.

Agreed, that the FL constitution makes all sorts of grand pronouncements and such with regard to what a grand jury can do, but the critical thing is that is all within a constitutional and statutory context, nothing common law nonsense about any of it. The point that you, and quite obviously the NLA loonies, don’t seem to get is that the grand jury “investigates” within the context of the grand jury setting, specifically the grand jury room under the supervision and guidance of the state’s attorney and the judge who empaneled them, they are NOT and NEVER have been independent entities. They don’t get to investigate anything unless and until they are charged to do so by either the court that constituted them, or the state’s attorney, otherwise, they stay home and go about their everyday business unless and until called to jury duty. They have NO authority to investigate or do anything unless it is within those circumstances, and that means that they do not get to go out and play Columbo, although Inspector Clouseau would have been more appropriate for Trussell’s escapades.

[davids]

I have told several operatives of the CLGJ that they should pool their resources and sue for declaratory judgment and injunction regarding their separate grand jury efforts before "winging it." They ignored me.

That is the most reasonable thing you've said. However, the chances of success of such a suit are slim to none. But at least it wouldn't be a crime to try it.

But, without a doubt, the grand jury system in Florida needs a serious overhaul.

And that still begs the question of whether Terry Trussell is the man for the job, and whether his actions were legal.

As I see it, by interfering with Trussell's efforts, the court violated the Constitutional authority of the Dixie County Grand Jury, irrespective of Trussell's efforts to get that indictment through the efforts of the CLGJ.

That depends on how you define the Dixie County Grand Jury. Anyone with a law degree could see this one coming. It takes a defective understanding of our legal system to think this would be anything more than a waste of time, at best.

To me it makes no sense to line up in opposition to the court and state attorney without first building a war chest and array of powerful allies, and finding competent legal counsel willing to take them on. That doesn't make Trussell wrong. It just makes him look ill-prepared and naive.

Of course, maybe Trussell is a complete genius and in a perfect world he could design the ideal grand jury system. That doesn't make his actions legal in this world. It merely makes them illegal, but perhaps in a manner that involves a lower level of moral turpitude.

[bobhurt]

famspear: So, under the Florida Constitution, the Legislature can indeed pass a law that removes a common law right without replacing it with a statutory substitute (suitable or otherwise)-- under the limited conditions laid out by the Court.

I believe you can read the opinion and come away with the understanding that government would have to jump through some hoops if properly challenged regarding statutory suppression of a common law right, particularly the right of the people to enjoy the protection of the grand jury. The relatively ancient common law grand jury of yore bears little resemblance, and wrongly so, to the grand jury of today.

The assertion above that the Florida Grand jury has always operated under the thumb of the court and state attorney serves as a testament to how badly government abuse of grand jury power has gone wrong in Florida. The system needs an overhaul both to curb abusive prosecutors and to hold government officials and their minions accountable for wrongdoing, particularly where the good old boy's network pretty much guarantees that nothing outside a mob hit could accomplish it.

[notorial dissent]

Bob, I see you continue to deploy your proof of ignorance for all to see.

First it would be hard, well impossible really, to argue about any "common law grand jury" right, since no such creature has ever existed. The grand jury was a creation out of the King's authority, and was never anything but.

Secondly, the grand jury system has never operated any other way than it is currently being operated, it is and always has been a creature of the court that summoned and created it, and under the guidance of the state's attorney under statute.

[davids]

I suspect that his fascination with the idea comes from the abuse of the concept of "common law" that has existed in sovrun realms over the past few years. They think that the "common law" is something like "law for common folk, who don't need to know them fancy high flatten' statoots that you and yer gosh durned jewboy bank lawyers knows all about hack ptoooey. BING! (as the 'backy hits the spittoon)" To someone with a legal education, it means "case law." Not, "hey use this term and you get to chuck all of the procedural rules in the toilet."

[davids]

Anything new from these crazies lately? They were strangely entertaining, for a while at least...

[LightinDarkness]

Same song, same dance. John Vidurek has been promoting a new batch of POWERFUL PAPERS that will surely make the courts bend to his will. In the mean time, hes started a 1 million signature campaign and as of his last weekly update completely ignored that and gave no updates on it.

The weekly updates have also turned into something of a circus with Vidurek hawking survival prepper foods and dangerous alt medicine "products" for a commission.

From what I can tell, the membership seems to be plummeting - as was expected. Sovcits are fair weather sovereigns. They always join these organizations when they are new and make big promises and then bail in droves when nothing happens or when they are asked to do some sort of work.

[notorial dissent]

I think that NLA is very rapidly entering the final stages of decline that fRuSA has been in now for about a year and a half. The only ones left will soon be the truly psycho and the grifters, and the Venn diagram of this group now is pretty much two circles eclipsing each other, with Johnny Two Names being the head and chief nutter.

[Famspear]

On June 10, 2016, Terry George Trussell was found guilty of two counts of impersonating a public officer, two counts of unlawful use of simulated legal process, and one count of unlawful retaliation against a public officer.

He was acquitted on nine other counts.

A sentencing date has not yet been set.

State of Florida v. Terry George Trussell, case no. 14-201, Circuit Court of the Third Judicial Circuit, Dixie County, Florida.

[bobhurt]

I have met former Vietnam era US Marine Terry Trussell a couple of times and found him a affable and intelligent. I have spoken with but not met his attorney Inger Garcia. I found her bright, energetic, and easy to talk with. I kept up with the progress of his trial because of the assiduous interest of the termagants at fogbow who posted as much blow-by-blow commentary as they could (a couple of them attended the 5-day proceedings), and even posted youtube videos and links to case documents.

The prosecutor accused Terry George Trussell of Impersonating a Public Officer, Unlawful Use of Simulated Legal Process, and Unlawful Retaliation against a Public Officer (14 counts altogether), all violations of Florida Statute 843.0855.

1. See the pretrial hearing
2. Watch Trussell make personal comments after the pre-trial hearing
3. See youtube videos of the proceedings.
4. Navigate to the case files. In the dockets section, click 10, then select all to see the entire docket.

The trial began Monday. The jury left to deliberate on Thursday afternoon and returned in the early afternoon Friday with a verdict of guilty on the first 5 of the 14 counts. Terry, as foreman of the common law grand jury (CLGJ, which prosecutors said did not exist) and of the real grand jury, launched investigations into federal bribery of local school board and a judge and other officials, including former governor Charlie Crist, for foisting Common Core public school curriculum onto the people of Dixie County FL. The prosecutor and chief judge fired Trussell from the Grand Jury (GJ), so as head of the CLGJ he issued presentments. The prosecutor ordered his arrest. Proceedings dragged on for two years. After the verdict, the judge dismissed the jury with an expression of gratitude. Bailiffs handcuffed Trussell and led him to jail where he awaits sentencing some time in the future. He plans an appeal.

Trussell's attorney Inger Garcia seemed to have done a pretty good job, given the amount of work it took to prepare the defense. She did not manage to make a full First Amendment defense case for Trussell. But, she preserved many issues for appeal.

Government has always had a thumb in juries, to keep out screwballs. But in fact, the Florida Constitution does not empower the Legislature to make statutes like chapter 905 governing the empanelment and activities of the GJ (not that I consider the statutes a bad idea). Nor do the statutes forbid establishment of a CLGJ. Statutes do forbid State interference with deliberations of the GJ, and do require the State (Chief Judge and Prosecutor) to assist and give legal advice to the GJ. Most importantly, as I see it, the court should have construed Florida Statute 843.0855 as unconstitutional in its application to Trussell's activities, and it should have allowed testimony by First Amendment expert John Wolfgram. He would have shown that Trussell's activities operated within the First Amendment right to petition for redress of grievance.

Defense counsel bore the onus of getting the court to do that, probably an impossible task.

Why? Pragmatically, Florida officials have engineered the Trussell conviction in order to suppress all efforts to operate any GJ outside the scope of the GJ statutes, chapter 905. Otherwise the officials would lose control, and more would get prosecuted for their high-handedness, corruption, crookedness, dirty-dealing, corkscrewing, and backstabbing than under the present GJ system that effectively prevents them from investigating or issuing presentments against "connected" public officials.

I have explained here just why that became a necessity since the Civil War. Those who started up CLGJ efforts around the country did not know that aspect of history, and so they failed to realize that government will stifle any effort to re-empower juries of any kind. Apparently, government officials believe giving original powers to juries will constitute a danger to the republic.

And that explains why Terry Trussell had to go to jail, AND why he will lose his appeal. Government simply cannot allow him a victory.

But I have no doubt that Terry George Trussell, like a former US Marine remaining loyal to his oath to support the Constitution, will soldier on from prison.