Offering 50 bucks for information

[Patriotdiscussions]

Looking for the florida statute that says personal(private) vehicles need to apply for a certificate of title.

Chapter is 319

Only thing close I have found so far is 319.23, but it only mentions commercial vehicles, motor homes and rebuilt vehicles.

This should be real simple, no discussion needed, just show me the statute stating "personal vehicles have to apply for a cert of title" and collect your fifty bucks.

[JamesVincent]

Doesn't matter if there is a statute saying you must have title to a vehicle. You could leave it sitting in your yard or garage and never have title to it. It does, however, say that you must have title or have applied for title to register a vehicle of any type for street use. And you must have registration and tags to legally drive the vehicle. Stop trying to find ways to get around the obvious.

[Hyrion]

Chapter is 319

Sorry, Chapter 319 does not live in a vacuum.

Source: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/ind ... Index.html

319.20:

• Application of law.—The provisions of this chapter apply exclusively, except as otherwise specifically provided, to motor vehicles and mobile homes required to be registered and licensed under the laws of this state and defined by such registration laws.

Source: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/ind ... Index.html

• 320.02 Registration required; application for registration; forms.

• (1) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, every owner or person in charge of a motor vehicle that is operated or driven on the roads of this state shall register the vehicle in this state.

That'll be $50 please. You can deliver it to your favorite registered charity for children.

[darling]

That'll be $50 please.

No, he said 50 bucks.

Some poor charity is going to end up with an assortment of male deer, kangaroos, gerbils, hamsters and so forth sitting on their doorstep.

[fortinbras]

How about this:

Florida Statutes § 319.34:

MOTOR VEHICLES
Chapter 319
TITLE CERTIFICATES
319.34 Transfer without delivery of certificate; operation or use without certificate; failure to surrender; other violations.—

Whoever, except as otherwise provided for in this chapter, purports to sell or transfer a motor vehicle or mobile home without delivering to the purchaser or transferee thereof a certificate of title thereto duly assigned to such purchaser as provided in this chapter or operates or uses in this state a motor vehicle or mobile home for which a certificate of title is required without such certificate having been obtained in accordance with the provisions of this chapter, or upon which the certificate of title has been canceled; whoever fails to surrender any certificate of title, certificate of registration, license plate, or sticker upon cancellation of the same by the department and notice thereof as prescribed in this chapter; whoever fails to surrender the certificate of title to the department as provided in this chapter in case of the destruction or dismantling or change of a motor vehicle or mobile home in such respect that it is not the motor vehicle or mobile home described in the certificate of title; or whoever violates any of the other provisions of this chapter, or any lawful rule adopted pursuant to the provisions of this chapter, shall be fined not more than $500 or imprisoned for not more than 6 months, or both, for each offense.

History.—s. 15, ch. 23658, 1947; s. 12, ch. 25150, 1949; s. 6, ch. 65-190; ss. 24, 35, ch. 69-106; s. 19, ch. 82-134.

Please send the $50 to the Rochester School for the Deaf in Rochester, NY. YOU can take credit for the donation on your taxes.

[Patriotdiscussions]

Chapter is 319

Sorry, Chapter 319 does not live in a vacuum.

Source: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/ind ... Index.html

319.20:

• Application of law.—The provisions of this chapter apply exclusively, except as otherwise specifically provided, to motor vehicles and mobile homes required to be registered and licensed under the laws of this state and defined by such registration laws.

Source: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/ind ... Index.html

• 320.02 Registration required; application for registration; forms.

• (1) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, every owner or person in charge of a motor vehicle that is operated or driven on the roads of this state shall register the vehicle in this state.

That'll be $50 please. You can deliver it to your favorite registered charity for children.

Thanks I read those, where does it say personal vehicles must apply for certificate of title?

[Pottapaug1938]

Also, here is 319.21:

319.21 Necessity of manufacturer’s statement of origin and certificate of title.—
(1) No manufacturer, distributor, licensed dealer, or other person shall sell or otherwise dispose of a new motor vehicle or a new mobile home to a distributor, licensed dealer, or other person without delivering to such distributor, licensed dealer, or other person a manufacturer’s statement of origin duly executed and with such assignments thereon as may be necessary to show title in the purchaser thereof, on forms approved by the department; nor shall any distributor, licensed dealer, or other person purchase, acquire, or bring into the state, except for temporary use and not for sale, a new motor vehicle or a new mobile home without obtaining from the seller thereof the manufacturer’s statement of origin. Such statement of origin shall be in the English language. In addition to the assignments stated herein, the manufacturer’s statement of origin shall contain a certification of the identification and description of the motor vehicle or mobile home delivered and the name and address of the distributor, licensed dealer, or other person to whom the motor vehicle or mobile home was originally sold, over the signature of an authorized official of the manufacturer who made the original delivery; however, no statement of origin shall be required for any new motor vehicle or new mobile home purchased from a person other than a manufacturer or a representative of a manufacturer in a state which does not require such statement of origin. Prior to the issuance of a certificate of title for any such new motor vehicle or new mobile home, the holder of any security interest therein may demand and receive from the owner thereof the manufacturer’s statement of origin and may retain it as long as he or she holds the security interest.
(2) When a motor vehicle is built in two or more stages, each manufacturer must provide a manufacturer’s statement of origin for each stage.
(3) Except as provided in s. 320.27(7), no person shall sell or otherwise dispose of a motor vehicle or mobile home without delivering to the purchaser or transferee thereof a certificate of title with such assignment thereon as may be necessary to show title in the name of the purchaser. No person shall purchase or otherwise acquire or bring into the state a motor vehicle or mobile home, except for a surviving spouse as provided by s. 319.28 or except for temporary use, unless such person obtains a certificate of title for it in his or her name in accordance with the provisions of this chapter. However, any licensed dealer may, in lieu of having a certificate of title issued in the dealer’s name, reassign any existing certificate of title, except as provided in s. 319.225. It shall not be necessary for any licensed dealer to obtain a certificate of title on any new motor vehicle or new mobile home which he or she is selling or which he or she acquires for sale if the dealer obtains a manufacturer’s statement of origin as provided in subsection (1); however, the dealer shall attach the manufacturer’s statement of origin to the separate application for initial certificate of title which is made by the purchaser and certify on the face of such application that the vehicle is a new motor vehicle or new mobile home and shall also disclose the name and address of the manufacturer, distributor, or other person from whom the dealer acquired such motor vehicle or mobile home. In no event shall a manufacturer’s statement of origin be issued or reissued to any distributor, licensed dealer, or other person for the purpose of updating any motor vehicle or mobile home for sale. As used in this subsection, the term “updating” means:
(a) Modification of the motor vehicle or mobile home in such a manner that it resembles in appearance the current year’s model;
(b) Replacement of the original identification number and chassis number, which replacement reflects a change in the year manufactured, or any other modification which misrepresents the actual year manufactured; or
(c) Issuance of another manufacturer’s statement of origin changing the model year of manufacture.
(4) Notwithstanding the provisions of other laws of this state, no motor vehicle or mobile home shall be eligible for initial registration in this state unless the provisions of this section have been complied with.
History.—s. 2, ch. 23658, 1947; s. 1, ch. 25150, 1949; s. 1, ch. 61-296; s. 6, ch. 65-190; ss. 24, 35, ch. 69-106; s. 1, ch. 77-11; s. 5, ch. 82-134; s. 4, ch. 89-333; s. 336, ch. 95-148; s. 7, ch. 95-333; s. 11, ch. 96-413; s. 56, ch. 2014-17.

Any local council of the Boy Scouits of America would be a worthy recipient of the $50.

[Patriotdiscussions]

How about this:

Florida Statutes § 319.34:

MOTOR VEHICLES
Chapter 319
TITLE CERTIFICATES
319.34 Transfer without delivery of certificate; operation or use without certificate; failure to surrender; other violations.—

Whoever, except as otherwise provided for in this chapter, purports to sell or transfer a motor vehicle or mobile home without delivering to the purchaser or transferee thereof a certificate of title thereto duly assigned to such purchaser as provided in this chapter or operates or uses in this state a motor vehicle or mobile home for which a certificate of title is required without such certificate having been obtained in accordance with the provisions of this chapter, or upon which the certificate of title has been canceled; whoever fails to surrender any certificate of title, certificate of registration, license plate, or sticker upon cancellation of the same by the department and notice thereof as prescribed in this chapter; whoever fails to surrender the certificate of title to the department as provided in this chapter in case of the destruction or dismantling or change of a motor vehicle or mobile home in such respect that it is not the motor vehicle or mobile home described in the certificate of title; or whoever violates any of the other provisions of this chapter, or any lawful rule adopted pursuant to the provisions of this chapter, shall be fined not more than $500 or imprisoned for not more than 6 months, or both, for each offense.

History.—s. 15, ch. 23658, 1947; s. 12, ch. 25150, 1949; s. 6, ch. 65-190; ss. 24, 35, ch. 69-106; s. 19, ch. 82-134.

Please send the $50 to the Rochester School for the Deaf in Rochester, NY. YOU can take credit for the donation on your taxes.

Thanks for the reply, we can clearly see this deals with vehicles already titled in the state.

Lets say I go to a new car lot, get the mco, tow the car to my house. What is the statute saying this car has to apply for a certificate of title. Which if I do not have I can not register it either thereby there is no need to reply with registration laws.

[NYGman]

Thanks I read those, where does it say personal vehicles must apply for certificate of title?

Where are you seeing that Personal Vehicles has any unique meaning under the law. Is not a personal vehicle a Motor Vehicle or is your Personal Vehicle a Bicycle, tricycle, or Soap Box Car, in which case I don't believe you need to register it?

Motor Vehicle is inclusive of any vehicle with a motor, whether public or private. They may be special rule for For-hire vehicles, or for emergency or city vehicles, but I do believe the Motor Vehicle laws cover all forms of motorized vehicles, used for any purpose.

One final word. I used to live in Florida in the 90's and I had a good friend who had a "reg only" plate on their personal vehicle. They had registered it to drive on the road, but they did not hold the title in the state. They were legally allowed to drive it, as they had registered
and insured the car, but they did not record ownership in FL. The law may have changed, but if not, you may still be able to register a car in Florida, without a title, but it still needs to have tags, and insurance to be legally allowed on the road.

Example:

[Patriotdiscussions]

Also, here is 319.21:

319.21 Necessity of manufacturer’s statement of origin and certificate of title.—
(1) No manufacturer, distributor, licensed dealer, or other person shall sell or otherwise dispose of a new motor vehicle or a new mobile home to a distributor, licensed dealer, or other person without delivering to such distributor, licensed dealer, or other person a manufacturer’s statement of origin duly executed and with such assignments thereon as may be necessary to show title in the purchaser thereof, on forms approved by the department; nor shall any distributor, licensed dealer, or other person purchase, acquire, or bring into the state, except for temporary use and not for sale, a new motor vehicle or a new mobile home without obtaining from the seller thereof the manufacturer’s statement of origin. Such statement of origin shall be in the English language. In addition to the assignments stated herein, the manufacturer’s statement of origin shall contain a certification of the identification and description of the motor vehicle or mobile home delivered and the name and address of the distributor, licensed dealer, or other person to whom the motor vehicle or mobile home was originally sold, over the signature of an authorized official of the manufacturer who made the original delivery; however, no statement of origin shall be required for any new motor vehicle or new mobile home purchased from a person other than a manufacturer or a representative of a manufacturer in a state which does not require such statement of origin. Prior to the issuance of a certificate of title for any such new motor vehicle or new mobile home, the holder of any security interest therein may demand and receive from the owner thereof the manufacturer’s statement of origin and may retain it as long as he or she holds the security interest.
(2) When a motor vehicle is built in two or more stages, each manufacturer must provide a manufacturer’s statement of origin for each stage.
(3) Except as provided in s. 320.27(7), no person shall sell or otherwise dispose of a motor vehicle or mobile home without delivering to the purchaser or transferee thereof a certificate of title with such assignment thereon as may be necessary to show title in the name of the purchaser. No person shall purchase or otherwise acquire or bring into the state a motor vehicle or mobile home, except for a surviving spouse as provided by s. 319.28 or except for temporary use, unless such person obtains a certificate of title for it in his or her name in accordance with the provisions of this chapter. However, any licensed dealer may, in lieu of having a certificate of title issued in the dealer’s name, reassign any existing certificate of title, except as provided in s. 319.225. It shall not be necessary for any licensed dealer to obtain a certificate of title on any new motor vehicle or new mobile home which he or she is selling or which he or she acquires for sale if the dealer obtains a manufacturer’s statement of origin as provided in subsection (1); however, the dealer shall attach the manufacturer’s statement of origin to the separate application for initial certificate of title which is made by the purchaser and certify on the face of such application that the vehicle is a new motor vehicle or new mobile home and shall also disclose the name and address of the manufacturer, distributor, or other person from whom the dealer acquired such motor vehicle or mobile home. In no event shall a manufacturer’s statement of origin be issued or reissued to any distributor, licensed dealer, or other person for the purpose of updating any motor vehicle or mobile home for sale. As used in this subsection, the term “updating” means:
(a) Modification of the motor vehicle or mobile home in such a manner that it resembles in appearance the current year’s model;
(b) Replacement of the original identification number and chassis number, which replacement reflects a change in the year manufactured, or any other modification which misrepresents the actual year manufactured; or
(c) Issuance of another manufacturer’s statement of origin changing the model year of manufacture.
(4) Notwithstanding the provisions of other laws of this state, no motor vehicle or mobile home shall be eligible for initial registration in this state unless the provisions of this section have been complied with.
History.—s. 2, ch. 23658, 1947; s. 1, ch. 25150, 1949; s. 1, ch. 61-296; s. 6, ch. 65-190; ss. 24, 35, ch. 69-106; s. 1, ch. 77-11; s. 5, ch. 82-134; s. 4, ch. 89-333; s. 336, ch. 95-148; s. 7, ch. 95-333; s. 11, ch. 96-413; s. 56, ch. 2014-17.

Any local council of the Boy Scouits of America would be a worthy recipient of the $50.

Notice in (1) how they don't mention cert of title and new car until this....

Prior to the issuance of a certificate of title for any such new motor vehicle or new mobile home, the holder of any security interest therein may demand and receive from the owner thereof the manufacturer’s statement of origin and may retain it as long as he or she holds the security interest.


Tell me when you figure out why someone would demand to hold an mco for a security if it means nothing.

[NYGman]

Notice in (1) how they don't mention cert of title and new car until this....

Prior to the issuance of a certificate of title for any such new motor vehicle or new mobile home, the holder of any security interest therein may demand and receive from the owner thereof the manufacturer’s statement of origin and may retain it as long as he or she holds the security interest.


Tell me when you figure out why someone would demand to hold an mco for a security if it means nothing.

But you are not registering or driving a security interest, are you? If you want to do that, the car has to be titled, and registered to drive on the road. Anyone can own a bunch or parts, you are asking if a Motor Vehicle has to be Titled to Drive, and, if you want to drive it on the road, you need to register and insure it too...

[Pottapaug1938]

Also, here is 319.21:

319.21 Necessity of manufacturer’s statement of origin and certificate of title.—
(1) No manufacturer, distributor, licensed dealer, or other person shall sell or otherwise dispose of a new motor vehicle or a new mobile home to a distributor, licensed dealer, or other person without delivering to such distributor, licensed dealer, or other person a manufacturer’s statement of origin duly executed and with such assignments thereon as may be necessary to show title in the purchaser thereof, on forms approved by the department; nor shall any distributor, licensed dealer, or other person purchase, acquire, or bring into the state, except for temporary use and not for sale, a new motor vehicle or a new mobile home without obtaining from the seller thereof the manufacturer’s statement of origin. Such statement of origin shall be in the English language. In addition to the assignments stated herein, the manufacturer’s statement of origin shall contain a certification of the identification and description of the motor vehicle or mobile home delivered and the name and address of the distributor, licensed dealer, or other person to whom the motor vehicle or mobile home was originally sold, over the signature of an authorized official of the manufacturer who made the original delivery; however, no statement of origin shall be required for any new motor vehicle or new mobile home purchased from a person other than a manufacturer or a representative of a manufacturer in a state which does not require such statement of origin. Prior to the issuance of a certificate of title for any such new motor vehicle or new mobile home, the holder of any security interest therein may demand and receive from the owner thereof the manufacturer’s statement of origin and may retain it as long as he or she holds the security interest.
(2) When a motor vehicle is built in two or more stages, each manufacturer must provide a manufacturer’s statement of origin for each stage.
(3) Except as provided in s. 320.27(7), no person shall sell or otherwise dispose of a motor vehicle or mobile home without delivering to the purchaser or transferee thereof a certificate of title with such assignment thereon as may be necessary to show title in the name of the purchaser. No person shall purchase or otherwise acquire or bring into the state a motor vehicle or mobile home, except for a surviving spouse as provided by s. 319.28 or except for temporary use, unless such person obtains a certificate of title for it in his or her name in accordance with the provisions of this chapter. However, any licensed dealer may, in lieu of having a certificate of title issued in the dealer’s name, reassign any existing certificate of title, except as provided in s. 319.225. It shall not be necessary for any licensed dealer to obtain a certificate of title on any new motor vehicle or new mobile home which he or she is selling or which he or she acquires for sale if the dealer obtains a manufacturer’s statement of origin as provided in subsection (1); however, the dealer shall attach the manufacturer’s statement of origin to the separate application for initial certificate of title which is made by the purchaser and certify on the face of such application that the vehicle is a new motor vehicle or new mobile home and shall also disclose the name and address of the manufacturer, distributor, or other person from whom the dealer acquired such motor vehicle or mobile home. In no event shall a manufacturer’s statement of origin be issued or reissued to any distributor, licensed dealer, or other person for the purpose of updating any motor vehicle or mobile home for sale. As used in this subsection, the term “updating” means:
(a) Modification of the motor vehicle or mobile home in such a manner that it resembles in appearance the current year’s model;
(b) Replacement of the original identification number and chassis number, which replacement reflects a change in the year manufactured, or any other modification which misrepresents the actual year manufactured; or
(c) Issuance of another manufacturer’s statement of origin changing the model year of manufacture.
(4) Notwithstanding the provisions of other laws of this state, no motor vehicle or mobile home shall be eligible for initial registration in this state unless the provisions of this section have been complied with.
History.—s. 2, ch. 23658, 1947; s. 1, ch. 25150, 1949; s. 1, ch. 61-296; s. 6, ch. 65-190; ss. 24, 35, ch. 69-106; s. 1, ch. 77-11; s. 5, ch. 82-134; s. 4, ch. 89-333; s. 336, ch. 95-148; s. 7, ch. 95-333; s. 11, ch. 96-413; s. 56, ch. 2014-17.

Any local council of the Boy Scouts of America would be a worthy recipient of the $50.

Notice in (1) how they don't mention cert of title and new car until this....

Prior to the issuance of a certificate of title for any such new motor vehicle or new mobile home, the holder of any security interest therein may demand and receive from the owner thereof the manufacturer’s statement of origin and may retain it as long as he or she holds the security interest.


Tell me when you figure out why someone would demand to hold an mco for a security if it means nothing.

Easy. When I bought my newer car in December, with a car loan, the certificate of title went to the lender; and I will get it once I have paid off the loan. If I had bought a new car from a dealer, the same thing would happen to the MCO.

You might want to read the whole of Chapter 321, to get any other questions answered. Now, stop moving the goalposts, and get the check in the mail to your local BSA council. Some Scouts need camperships to attend Scout summer camp, and the more donations received, the more Scouts get to go to summer camp.

[The Observer]

This thread seems to have been initiated in violation of the rules that wserra advised you, patriotdiscussions, of quite recently. You are not supposed to be starting topics asking vague questions for the purpose of starting a "gotcha" moment and for moving goal posts. It was specifically explained that you are to state a position and defend it in your threads.

As such, I am locking this thread and letting the admins decide your fate. May whatever Supreme Being you believe in have mercy on your digital presence.

[JamesVincent]

Obs, I know you locked the thread earlier (and rightly so) but I wanted to post an observation (hehe) relevant to the thread so could you please merge? And please delete any comments made after this, there really is no reason to answer.

This is the exact same thing you tried in the Are Social Security cards mandatory? thread. And it has the exact same answer. It may very well not say that you have to register the title in your name, just as there may very well not be a statute that states you have to have a social security card. Regardless, it is still necessary to enjoy the ownership of that vehicle. In all 50 states it is necessary to possess title to register a vehicle for street use, either have title in hand or have applied for title and have appropriate paperwork in hand. You could very well drive something titled and registered in someone else's name but it would still need to be titled, registered and tagged by someone to be legal. In the case of a lien then the lienholder holds the clear title and you receive an adjusted title that notes the lien. After the lien is satisfied then you can receive clear title. To have an above board job, to have and define your credit, to receive the benefits of being a citizen, you have to have a social security number. To receive the benefits of owning a vehicle, such as driving it to work or the store, you must have received title to it and registered it. Otherwise the next video of someone screaming, "I don't consent" could very well be you. And the win rate for that stupidity is exactly 0.00%

[Hyrion]

I would only add:

What PD asked for, what s/he offered $50 for, s/he got in spades via multiple citations of Florida Statutes.

Is PD going to be honorable enough to complete a commitment s/he created wherein it's been shown a private vehicle does indeed require title?

A commitment wherein s/he now has - by his/her own choice - to provide $50 to some children's cause?

I fully expect PD had already made a conscious decision not to honor the offer even while authoring it. Now that s/he reasonably owes $50 to support children.....

• Honor

or

• Dishonor

Only PD knows for sure. I certainly hope there's enough honor in the person not to lie about it - such as by claiming to have paid when s/he hasn't.

[Pottapaug1938]

PD is a classic goal-post mover; and people like him/her make offers like that of the $50 knowing that, by "moving the goalposts", he/she can claim that the goal line has not been crossed and that they do not have to make good on their offer. I recall a court case in which an offer was made, such as this; but when the offer was accepted and the requested proof produced, a court held that the offeror was the sole judge of his/her own satisfaction and thus did not have to make payment to the offerees.

[wserra]

At James' request, I added the last three posts to the thread that Obs had locked (and which stays locked).