Patent

[JamesVincent]

I have a couple of questions. I am working on the final renderings for something I invented awhile ago. Not quite sure what the process is.

How exact do you have to be? I should have the parts drawn out pretty well but how exact is good enough? And it's a whole process, not just the parts. Can you patent a process?

Is it better to apply under myself or under the company?

Better to get the caveat and then apply or just apply?

[Arthur Rubin]

It is probably better not to ask anything which might involve "publication" of your patent application before it is submitted. Your questions are best asked of a patent lawyer, or at least a patent agent.

[Famspear]

It is probably better not to ask anything which might involve "publication" of your patent application before it is submitted. Your questions are best asked of a patent lawyer, or at least a patent agent.

Yeah, James, you should really consider talking with a lawyer who practices patent law. That's pretty technical stuff.

[obadiah]

James,
Find a patent attorney or a patent agent you can work well with. An agent can prosecute your patent with the patent office and may be less expensive (they pass the patent office exam the same the attorneys). A patent attorney is needed if it ever goes to court.

If you are bound and determined to do it yourself, take a look at "Patent It Yourself", by the Nolo Press. It will give you the basics.

I highly recommend an agent or attorney for 2 reasons:
1. Patents are written in their own arcane version of English. It takes experience (or lots of luck) to get it right and have the patent office accept it.
2. The biggest downfall of doing it yourself is prior art. If you are not experienced, I can almost guarantee you will miss it and your patent will be rejected.

[Arthur Rubin]

2. The biggest downfall of doing it yourself is prior art. If you are not experienced, I can almost guarantee you will miss it and your patent will be rejected.

A long time ago (in a galaxy, far, far, away -- no , that's the wrong script), around 1990, someone, in, I believe, the Usenet group comp.patents, asked for help in determining prior art in challenging a patent. I recalled something I worked with in 1979 on an odd brand of (mainframe) computer, which had most of the components of the patent, and I submitted an affidavit to that effect. I don't know the result. But you can't ask publicly about prior art without revealing what you are working on, which would probably break the patent; especially since the rule in the US is "first inventor to file", rather than the previous "first inventor". (It's been "first to file" in most other countries for some time.)

But, I'm not a lawyer, and, although I do have a patent to my name, I cannot recommend the law firm my employer used (even I if remembers who it was); the patent examiner requested clarification twice that required additional input from the inventors.

[JamesVincent]

Fair enough. I need to get a basic idea of what is required to even begin the process. I'll look into finding an attorney or agent nearer me, since there really is no such thing as near me.

edit: I actually have two completely different ones I'm working on. One I can map out completely, the other one is a little beyond my engineering abilities. I can show the way to do it and the process but not the technicals. So going through an attorney or agent would probably be better.

[eric]

I have a couple of questions. I am working on the final renderings for something I invented awhile ago. Not quite sure what the process is.

How exact do you have to be? I should have the parts drawn out pretty well but how exact is good enough? And it's a whole process, not just the parts. Can you patent a process?

Is it better to apply under myself or under the company?

Better to get the caveat and then apply or just apply?

Whew, i suspect you don't know much about the whole patent process. Here ya go - Although I'm a pig farmer now, in a previous life I was an electrical engineer and I have five patents. In no particular order....
1. Patents are in your name, although they may be assigned to a particular company;
2. Hopefully you have kept good notes through the whole invention process, preferably in a notebook with non-removeable pages;
3. Yes you can patent a process but you must show application. In other words you can't patent an algorithm or formula, but you can patent the application of the algorithm or process to a real world problem.
4. You don't need to have actually built a working copy of your invention, but your design must have progressed to the point that someone else "skilled in the art", using your patent could do so.

My advice to you is to find a good patent attorney to guide you through the process. As background to illustrate the problem, my patents were in pattern recognition algorithms as applied to the real world problem of recognizing printed characters. In other words, it was mathematical theory and formulae strung together in a process with a practical application. Much of the hardware required to implement the solution was actually built and worked, but the final design which brought it all together, was only built on paper, although it went down to the detail of schematic drawings. (the project was cancelled by my employer since we were all needed for higher priority projects). As a hint, you can save yourself money by doing the background research into prior art yourself to establish if your idea is patentable instead of having your attorney spend weeks doing it. If you need further help, we can take this discussion offline and I can give you more details using my patents as an example.

[JamesVincent]

Thanks Eric. To say I don't know much about the process would mean I actually knew something about it. I don't. The little I know comes from reading about other inventors and what they went through or did while chasing the patent. Am going to be working on several of your suggestions over the weekend. The one idea I can do, actually make it and demonstrate it. The other one I can draw out and show what it does and how it does it but the programming involved is beyond me. I know the equipment but I don't know how to write the program needed to run the equipment.

[LaVidaRoja]

I will recommend that you buy and read the Nolo book. It will give you some idea of the area you are going into. Having a clue about the entire process will make dealing with it a lot easier.

[Gregg]

I have the NOLO book and I'd gladly let you have it, PM me an address.

[eric]

I'm certainly not an expert in the subject. My knowledge of the patent process is from the 1980's /90's when I was employed by a very large corporation and I worked as an engineer in a department whose mandate was to investigate alternative approaches and technologies to stay ahead of our competitors. We therefore generated a lot of patentable ideas and kept a patent attorney firm on retainer to handle our applications. Ten years of employment in that department, five patents, and not a single one of my ideas ever went into production <grins>. Anyways, before you get too far I suggest you read up on the whole patent process. At the same time, there are various sites that allow you to search patent abstracts for prior art so that you can see if your idea is patentable.

[obadiah]

The USPTO search is located at:

http://www.uspto.gov/patents/process/search/index.jsp

[webhick]

On a related note, I'm watching Shark Tank and some guy managed to patent a box of grass.

A box of grass.

[webhick]

And he should have called it a Piddle Patch. Dumbass.

[Gregg]

And he should have called it a Piddle Patch. Dumbass.

A square of turf for the dog who can't wait for you to get home?

They've had those for years....

[Arthur Rubin]

I should add that the only difference between a "patent agent" and a "patent attorney" is that the attorney can (usually) represent you in (US) court. An agent can represent you before the USPTO, and not all attorneys can represent you before the USPTO. In the event you were to file for international patents, I don't know what qualifications your representative would need. My patent, I believe, was filed in Europe and in Japan, but failed at both patent offices (there are reasons for those jurisdictions; it probably should have been filed in India, as well).

[JamesVincent]

Quick question I haven't seen yet in the books Gregg sent me. If you have different sizes do you have to include the different sizing in the patent? For example, if you have something that's normally 2" wide but is 4" wide in a different application, would that be two different products or just one as long as the process itself is the same.

[eric]

Quick question I haven't seen yet in the books Gregg sent me. If you have different sizes do you have to include the different sizing in the patent? For example, if you have something that's normally 2" wide but is 4" wide in a different application, would that be two different products or just one as long as the process itself is the same.

I am assuming you mean that you have a practibal design with a 2" device. It's generally a good idea to include the fact that it would work just as well with a 4" device. For your own protection I would suggest that you make your claim broad enough to include the 4", that way someone cannot borrow your idea, make a minor change, and claim it as their own. I'm not sure, but from the way I'm reading your question we're getting into the aspect of "how broad should I make my claims, without making them so broad that they infringe on someone else's idea?".