Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

[Burnaby49]

Clifford's bail hearing today was adjourned yet again, now to March 16.

Court Date Court Time Status Hearing Type Notes
16-Mar-2015 09:00 PENDING CRIMINAL BAILS (MON/THURS) BAIL REVIEW - BEFORE MARTIN, J.
17-Feb-2015 14:00 ADJOURNED CRIMINAL BAILS (MON/THURS) BAIL REVIEW - TO SET DATE (MARTIN, J. NOT SEIZED OF BAIL)

I have no idea how to interpret this entry in the document log - don't know what "O/C Done" might mean.

44 17-Feb-2015 Winnipeg-QB DISPOSITION SHEET MCKELVEY, J. 17FEB2015 16MAR2015 9AM (O/C DONE)

No reporting on the Clifford-friendly sites about what transpired. Nothing in the mainstream media.

[Jeffrey]

No reporting on the Clifford-friendly sites about what transpired. Nothing in the mainstream media.

They have stopped providing information on what's going on. They've even stopped giving information and updates to Rob Smith, curator of the Dean Clifford Facebook page.

It's pretty bizarre.

[Burnaby49]

I think the most important point in recent developments is that Dean has finally retained a real lawyer to represent him. Maybe he's had as much as he can take of remand and he realizes that, regardless of his bluster, he is not going to Freeman his way out. So the silence from the Deanster's Facebook page may just be the result of the lawyer telling them all to shut up to avoid prejudicing his chances at the bail hearing. That's the sort of thing that real lawyers do.

Unfortunately for Dean I really doubt that he will be able to let somebody else take his place in the limelight so the lawyer mayt end up getting canned. We'll see, Dean has a genius for self-destruction.

[arayder]

Freemen have invented the concept of a sort of guest appearance in court to explain away dutifully showing up in court when summoned.

It's their way of saying they don't recognize the authority of the court but are showing up anyway. To complete the illusion of personal soveriegnty the freeman usually says some magic words to the judge who ignores the freeman spiel and gets on with business.

This little bit of freeman court room drama completes the illusion fairly well when the case involves a traffic ticket or some such minor matter because the freeman walks out of the court and the show goes on.

Dean could modify this gambit and hand the ball off to the lawyer. However this would require the lawyer to cooperate and Dean would have to get in his two cents worth without cussing the judge.

[bmxninja357]

I have no idea how to interpret this entry in the document log - don't know what "O/C Done" might mean.

44 17-Feb-2015 Winnipeg-QB DISPOSITION SHEET MCKELVEY, J. 17FEB2015 16MAR2015 9AM (O/C DONE)

just a guess but "O/C done" could very well be order of committal. he was not released so there is a good chance its courthouse speak for your not free today.

and i suspect dean has been there long enough that the lawyer is only to arrange the plea bargain i said before he will be taking. i believe this was the plan all along. build up as much 1 day = 1.5 days then claim you cant take the corruption or some such and cut a deal. heck i even have a guess on what the deal will be. i wont elaborate but it will involve the sentences running concurrent. and then you can blame the lawyer for your extended stay.

peace,
ninj

[Burnaby49]

I have no idea how to interpret this entry in the document log - don't know what "O/C Done" might mean.

44 17-Feb-2015 Winnipeg-QB DISPOSITION SHEET MCKELVEY, J. 17FEB2015 16MAR2015 9AM (O/C DONE)

just a guess but "O/C done" could very well be order of committal. he was not released so there is a good chance its courthouse speak for your not free today.

and i suspect dean has been there long enough that the lawyer is only to arrange the plea bargain i said before he will be taking. i believe this was the plan all along. build up as much 1 day = 1.5 days then claim you cant take the corruption or some such and cut a deal. heck i even have a guess on what the deal will be. i wont elaborate but it will involve the sentences running concurrent. and then you can blame the lawyer for your extended stay.

peace,
ninj

Sounds like a valid analysis to me. If he's in the process of plea negotiations it would make sense for his followers to shut up and not screw things up.

[bmxninja357]

the plea deal has to take place now as he is out of frivolous filings and monotonous motions. its 3 months until the next bail application can be made. and he aint going to get bail. so all that is left is trial or plea bargain. now even if his lawyer can poke a hole somewhere, in the warrant, or in procedure, it wont really matter. in the paperwork dean has filed i believe he has made admissions as to possession and such. in short he confessed by stupidity and bravado. the discoveries were inevitable.

so it should go all dropped but the guns and grow. the sentences run concurrent and at minimum sentence on both charges. that is a mandatory minimum so i think its 48months for the greater sentence if i remember correctly. so if someone wants to do the math its 48months minus time served in remand times 1.5 and serving two thirds of that and i bet you can damn near predict his release date.

for all his fancy talk he is doing exactly what every other gun toting doper does. right down to erratic driving, inflated ego, and disregard for the welfare of others. and he finally shut up because it could queer the plea deal. if he didnt have the freeman twist he would simply be another drug dealer with some cool guns. and i suspect the freeman thing was his excuse to behave poorly as many have tried many things of this nature. hell, we even started a couple churches to try and cover our operations in my younger days.

all thats left for dean is to blame others for his poorly played court jester routine and his life choices.

dear dean, from one retired dealer to another, if you cant do the time, dont do the crime.

peace,
ninj

[Burnaby49]

We discussed on one of those churches and it's somewhat unconventional religious beliefs here;

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10313

[Jeffrey]

Of course the question is SHOULD he be offered a plea deal.

Unless he's genuinely had a change of heart then sure he should be released but otherwise you've let a guy out of jail that might shoot up the next RCMP officer that pulls him over for driving without a license.

[notorial dissent]

arayder, what you're referring to is the good old "special appearance" ploy, where you're there, but you're really not. The only problem is that it really doesn't work as advertised, and a lot of jurisdictions never recognized it or have done away with it, and the Fed system certainly has, so no joy in sovrunville. I don't know if it was ever part of English or Canadian jurisprudence, at least in the way they want to play it out.

Sounds like a valid analysis to me. If he's in the process of plea negotiations it would make sense for his followers to shut up and not screw things up.

I will go along with this to a point, but Deansters "shut up and not screw things up", that one I have a real hard time with. I mean, if they're dumb enough to blindly follow Dean.... Now it may simply be that he hasn't told any of them anything because of all the lies he's told before and he's getting ready for the grandest one of all?????? Although Dean keeping his mouth shut is one of those things I would have listed as a natural or physical impossibility, so I'm wondering too.

As ninj so rightly points out, I think that Dean has run out of magic FOTL woo, and if he ever expects to get out of stir, he is going to have to play the game and do it their way.

Now the only problem with this is that I have have a real hard time believing a Damascus moment for Dean, I don't think he's changed, I don't think he will change, and I think he is an ongoing threat to life and limb if he gets back out again. With his anger issues, he is a ticking bomb just waiting to go off.

[arayder]

Of course the question is SHOULD he be offered a plea deal.

Unless he's genuinely had a change of heart then sure he should be released but otherwise you've let a guy out of jail that might shoot up the next RCMP officer that pulls him over for driving without a license.

And who wants to be the judge that let Dean out early only to have him assault another cop? My guess is the courts are very capable of telling whether or not they are being played by a prisoner who just wants to get out as soon as possible.

arayder, what you're referring to is the good old "special appearance" ploy, where you're there, but you're really not. The only problem is that it really doesn't work as advertised, and a lot of jurisdictions never recognized it or have done away with it, and the Fed system certainly has, so no joy in sovrunville. I don't know if it was ever part of English or Canadian jurisprudence, at least in the way they want to play it out.

. . . .Dean has run out of magic FOTL woo, and if he ever expects to get out of stir, he is going to have to play the game and do it their way.

. . . I have have a real hard time believing a Damascus moment for Dean, I don't think he's changed, I don't think he will change, and I think he is an ongoing threat to life and limb if he gets back out again. With his anger issues, he is a ticking bomb just waiting to go off.

Oh, I never thought the special appearance thing really worked. I think it is a way freemen explain away the fact that they are showing up in a court they once said was was a mere "fiction". It's sort of like the way Menard used his SIN to get his insurance money. When the company asked for the number Bobby just gave out the number he'd said he had before he canceled it.

For the last several months Dean has pretended he's ruling the court. Now he needs an explanation as to why he's getting a lawyer and not challenging the court.

I agree that Dean probably still has an anger problem. In the best of all worlds he would enter the plea and start therapy/counseling for his problem (I don't know if can get the service while in a Canadian jail).

But I fear he won't do so.

[Arthur Rubin]

Oh, I never thought the special appearance thing really worked. I think it is a way freemen explain away the fact that they are showing up in a court they once said was was a mere "fiction".

I'm not at all familiar with Canadian law, but in the US, there is such a thing as a "special appearance". (Have I mentioned recently that I went to law school for about a semester?) If a defendant has a legitimate claim that the court does not have "personal jurisdiction", he must make that claim to the court; but if he just "appears" to make the claim, the court does then have personal jurisdiction.

It happens a lot more often in FOTL mythology then even in casebooks, and a lot more often in casebooks than in real courts, but there is such a thing. Unlike much FOTL mythology, there actually have been "special appearance"s in the past 3 centuries.

[Dr. Caligari]

If a defendant has a legitimate claim that the court does not have "personal jurisdiction", he must make that claim to the court; but if he just "appears" to make the claim, the court does then have personal jurisdiction.

California state courts still use that "Special Appearance" to challenge personal jurisdiction, but it's not used in federal court (cf. Fed. R. Civ. P. 12(h)(1)).

[bmxninja357]

appearance:


The act of showing up in court, either in person or, more frequently, by filing a document to that effect.
It implies that you accept the power of the court to try the matter (i.e. "jurisdiction").
Appearances are most often made by lawyers on their client's behalf and an appearance by a lawyer binds the client.

You can make a limited appearance called a "special appearance" in which your presence is not to imply acceptance of the court's jurisdiction but, rather, to challenge the jurisdiction of the court.
An example of the usefulness of a "special appearance" would be where you want to raise the fact that you were never properly served with the court papers.

source: http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/ ... rance.aspx

peace,
ninj

[Burnaby49]

So much for Dean's lawyer;

45 20-Feb-2015 Winnipeg-QB NOTICE OF MOTION (JUDGE) OF SARAH INNESS, TO WITHDRAW
46 20-Feb-2015 Winnipeg-QB AFFIDAVIT OF SARAH A. INNESS, AFF 19FEB2015

26-Feb-2015 10:00 PENDING CRIMINAL UNCONTESTED MOTIONS(THURS-10:00) OF SARAH INNESS, TO WITHDRAW

Bet that's an interesting affidavit. How long did she last? Less than a week? So much for the plea bargain or, for that matter, bail hearing.

Speaking of which I attended a Poriskyite promoter's plea bargain court hearing yesterday. Uniquely for a Porisky tax evader he was represented and let the lawyer do the talking. I'll try to get it written up this weekend.

[Hanslune]

She probably talked to her client and found out he was a complete nutter. Or and more probable he wanted her to conduct actions (like place liens against the judge) that were shall we say not within the scope of her duties as a defense lawyer.

.....or she found out he didn't have a dime to pay her.

[bmxninja357]

if i had to guess he wanted time served (on a plea deal) and she explained that was not possible due to the nature and severity of the charges. then he went self righteous douche bag and she can no longer vigorously defend him due to bias and thusly withdrew from the case.

just bizarre speculation but its at that point. if he goes to trial the judge may now order council on his behalf. this would be a smart move by the court as dean will probably get himself thrown out and he will need a defense mounted while he is out of the room.

peace,
ninj

[notorial dissent]

Or he told her one story when he hired her and then went back round the bend when it came time to prepare for trial, as Hanslune suggests.

I really don't think he could keep it together long enough to get in front of a judge to tray and fool them.

[arayder]

All good guesses, gentlemen. It may well be that the story unfolded in each way ya' all have speculated.

I'd guess that in meetings between Dean and his lawyer Clifford acted as thought he knew more than she did. It's highly possible Innes and Clifford never had agreement on what course they were going to take. Innes might have feared that Dean was going to do one of those numbers were the client jumps up in court and says he doesn't want his lawyer anymore. Plus Dean would probably have added in few choice phrases.

Considering that Dean is no dream to work with and has a history of failing to pay up ya' might figure Innes decided to cut her loses and put her efforts into more productive areas.

[Jeffrey]

And unlike Guru's, lawyers can't go and gossip about their clients online so anything Dean said is confidential.