Peter of England: A REal guru.

[longdog]

He'd say that WeeWee bank membership dues were not a public debt like mortgages, credit cards, SkyTV subscriptions and... Oh... Hang on minute!

[Hyrion]

I wonder what would happen if

My primary curiosity at this point is:

• Will Pete treat it as a sort-of ponzi setup? In order to co... err... I mean... entice, yea, in order to entice new sucke... ahhh... I mean.... customers, yea, in order to entice new customers into signing up and paying will Peter actually go to the associating banks and pay (out of the entry fee money) some of the debts so they can be publicized as actually having truly been paid?

Or is he simply gonna keep all the money to himself with the exception of what he spends on getting the "cheques" printed?

Given the OPCA group likes to do their best to take a situation of a minor offense and finagle it into a larger offense... I'm inclined to bet he'll convert the "fraud on the banks" into a "fraud on the banks plus ponzi scheme" - two different forms of financial fraud at the same time. If anyone can do it, I have my faith in OPCA to do so.

[wanglepin]

I am loving this. Some of these idiots I believe, actually know that this crap will not work, but are still going for it.

by mavrik » Fri May 01, 2015 4:52 pm
Just to let everyone know, I paid for a TV Licence with a cheque from WeRe Bank and after just getting of the phone with Tv Licencing, they have confirmed the licence is on it's way to me.

I just need to hook up the TV to the sky dish now.

Yes I know, but I wanted to test TV Licencing to see if they will accept the cheques, and they do and it is paid......... next one the leccy bill.

He doesn't mention he will be paying his sky subscription with a bouncy cheque or not. I hope he does.
http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... UOvozTF98F

[Hercule Parrot]

My primary curiosity at this point is:

Will Pete treat it as a sort-of ponzi setup? In order to entice new customers into signing up and paying will Peter actually go to the associating banks and pay (out of the entry fee money) some of the debts so they can be publicized as actually having truly been paid?

That would be the profitable option. Spend £10,000 settling the first few cheques, and profit from the tsunami of new customers who then would flood in. I hope he isn't so calculatingly dishonest.

[ArthurWankspittle]

I wonder what would happen if, next month, all the people who've now had their cheque books pay their £10 a month sub to WeRe bank using a WeRe bank cheque? What will Peter do? He can't very well say "er, thanks, but could you pay me in real money please?"

Couldn't he collect it by Direct Debit?

[NYGman]

I wonder what would happen if, next month, all the people who've now had their cheque books pay their £10 a month sub to WeRe bank using a WeRe bank cheque? What will Peter do? He can't very well say "er, thanks, but could you pay me in real money please?"

Couldn't he collect it by Direct Debit?

Already thought of that one: posting.php?mode=quote&f=47&p=187668

I wonder if you can pay him by DD then do a clawback later, as they obviously received nothing of value?

[rumpelstilzchen]

Another GOOFER has reported a "success"

Re: WeRe account open,chequebook arrived, paying with cheque

by Inquisitive26 » Fri May 01, 2015 7:27 pm

Hi guys, just wanted to share my good news with you all on the subject of paying our public liabilities with WeRe bank cheques. I had a confirmation from my local council that my council tax has been paid in full and my account is now set to zero. They've accepted the payment without any fuss whatsoever.

This is going to be so funny when these cheques start making their way back.

[ArthurWankspittle]

Oh noes, a doubter!

after just getting of the phone with Tv Licencing, they have confirmed the licence is on it's way to me.

I think its when TV Licensing gets off the phone with its' bank that you might have a problem. The TV Licenses' bank will send the cheque to WeRe Bank expecting to get paid on it. Apart from the £35 Peter of England has trousered from you mugs, WeRe bank has got no money. He hasnt' got anything to send the real banks to pay the cheques. Thats' when the shit will hit the fan.

The first line ignores the reality of how the system works. Either he has been told his cheque is at the TV Licence and he'll get his licence posted to him (then revoked when the cheque bounces) or he has been told to post in a cheque then he'll get his TV licence. The one thing I can guarantee that hasn't happened is he has been sent a TV licence before they have received a cheque. Besides, organisations like TV licence, DVLA can always send out a licence on receipt of a cheque then revoke it late.

[arayder]

I wonder what would happen if

My primary curiosity at this point is:

• Will Pete treat it as a sort-of ponzi setup? In order to co... err... I mean... entice, yea, in order to entice new sucke... ahhh... I mean.... customers, yea, in order to entice new customers into signing up and paying will Peter actually go to the associating banks and pay (out of the entry fee money) some of the debts so they can be publicized as actually having truly been paid?

Or is he simply gonna keep all the money to himself with the exception of what he spends on getting the "cheques" printed?

Given the OPCA group likes to do their best to take a situation of a minor offense and finagle it into a larger offense... I'm inclined to bet he'll convert the "fraud on the banks" into a "fraud on the banks plus ponzi scheme" - two different forms of financial fraud at the same time. If anyone can do it, I have my faith in OPCA to do so.

Paying a few of the scheme's early victims so as to make the enterprise look as if it is working is exactly what I, at one time, suspected Robert Menard might do with his ACCP scam. At this point it appears nothing has happened with the ACCP. We don't know who got the money from the ACCP memberships, or even how many memberships there were.

If I am understanding the WeRe bank thing correctly Peter of England didn't do anything more than make up an unfunded account and print up worthless checks. This seems to be a more manageable task than getting worthless debit cards made up, which seems to have stumped the brain trust over at ACCP.

As with Menard I suspect Peter fends off the charges of fraud with the claim that he really, really does think the plan is legal, lawful and proper.

But when you think about it, the point in the two scams at which it all goes bad is kind of like when a card shark palms a card during a three card monte scam. The checks may look real. The Menard cards may seem okay. But it's all really just a slight of hand.

The problem comes when the WeRe checks or the Menard Cards have to be backed up with something of real value.

. . .I think its when TV Licensing gets off the phone with its' bank that you might have a problem. The TV Licenses' bank will send the cheque to WeRe Bank expecting to get paid on it. Apart from the £35 Peter of England has trousered from you mugs, WeRe bank has got no money. He hasnt' got anything to send the real banks to pay the cheques. Thats' when the shit will hit the fan.

Exactly. So maybe it is better to set up the scam, collect the memberships, subscriptions, fees or whatever the marks are paying and never produce the debit cards or the checks. That way all the scammer has to do is find some way to blame the "project's" failure on the powers that be in the hopes that the marks will either buy the ruse, or not have the ability to haul the scammer before the courts. Since there were never any debit cards or checks that means there are no businesses or banks after the scammer's hide when the whole thing blows up.

------------
Dope Clock II
It has been 103 days since Robert Menard announced the revival of the Association of Canadian Consumer Purchasers. So far there is no documentation of a successful purchase using Menard's system.

[littleFred]

So maybe it is better to set up the scam, collect the memberships, subscriptions, fees or whatever the marks are paying and never produce the debit cards or the checks.

Easier, but less lucrative. How much has Menard made from ACCP? I suspect rather less that Peter's £10 from each of 350 suckers, and that was before recent claims of success. I reckon he could easily hit the thousand mark. If the scheme survives into month two, that's another £10,000 in his pocket.

True, Peter's scheme has been years in gestation. If he pays income tax, he might claim it as an "artistic endeavour" to spread his income tax liability.

Ah, I was forgetting: statutes don't apply to him.

[wanglepin]

We don't know who got the money from the ACCP memberships, or even how many memberships there were.

This was the same scam as Roger Hayes` lawfulbank. He asked for pledges and a subscription donationfee he "retired" pocketed the money sterling and no one knows what happened next. Hayes has never mentioned his bank since.

[mufc1959]

It's all starting to go tits up.

From Peter of England's FB page.

Emily Love-Light Davies
30 April 13:05
Hi Peter, Barclaycard have called again and said I've been issues with fraudulent cheques from their intelligence. He won't say what it is. And he said he's called were bank. I asked what makes him think it's fraudulent and does her know where Barclays funds originate from! He early doesn't know it's the federal reserve. But they're saying they will dishonour the cheque

and

Benjamin Alan Laverick
1 May 09:30
Morning again. It looks like natwest are not accepting them. Had a look this morning at my credit card online and the payment is showing but the balance has changed back to what it was, unlike yesterday when it was showing a zero balance. What do u think is happening?

and this, from the woman who claimed two days ago to be debt-free.

Cindy Harris Benjamin this is similar to my experience. I got a message in my account (and a letter) saying the account was now paid in full. Then I noticed another message this morning saying 'unpaid cheque'. I think the bank accepts the cheque and then it gets stopped at clearing cos of the sort code. They don't seem to be using the clearing hotline.

[rumpelstilzchen]

If I am understanding the WeRe bank thing correctly Peter of England didn't do anything more than make up an unfunded account and print up worthless checks. This seems to be a more manageable task than getting worthless debit cards made up, which seems to have stumped the brain trust over at ACCP.

Menard should take lessons from PoE on how to get a project off the ground. It is strange that Menard has been flogging his ACCP scam for two or three years but doesn't appear to have managed to attract many takers. It seems to have gone nowhere. But along comes PoE, he pitches his plan, and it is only a plan he provides no evidence of it ever working, but for some reason that escapes me, there is a plethora of suckers signing up who believe every word he says. Why is that? It can't be luck. There must be a reason. Why do people pass on Menard's get rich quick scam but fall big time for PoE's bullshit? Could it be as simple as we have a higher percentage of gullible idiots in the UK than Canada does?

[rumpelstilzchen]

It's all starting to go tits up.

It's not surprising but it's a shame that it's happening too soon.

[rumpelstilzchen]

From PoE's Facebook page:

We had a call at 14;50hrs on 1st May from John May of Bromley District Council asking procedure on a cheque drawn by one Emily Davies for £ 1,766.10p. If this is you then hear up.He quoted the cheque number amount and name and asked how to clear it, He was told how to and said he would conform. We confirmed funds available. If this is NOT you then ....you still get the point, EVERY SINGLE HIGH STREET BANK HAS CALLED US IN THE PAST 7 DAYS ASKING..."what do we have to do to clear the cheque?" Including some one claiming to be from UK Clearing"
HOLD FAST!

[PeanutGallery]

On the one hand, I'm glad it's starting to fail as it will stop others from being chucked under the bus by Peter. On the other, a little disappointed as I'm going to miss Peter's antics.

I note that on his facebook Peter's posted up a video on how Cheques clear, he says:

NOW JUST SO WE HAVE THIS ABSOLUTELY CLEAR FOR ALL PARTIES CONCERNED ...LISTEN UP...WATCH UP AND SHUT UP!!
LAST WORD ..NO MORE DISCUSSION:

However I'm not sure that the video means what he thinks it means or that he actually understands all of the process. Which is not much of a surprise really. I'd also say that in regard to those who suggested that if Peter was serious about his scam he would have paid out on the first £10,000, this may have been his intent however I think it was scuppered by one or two 'customers' writing cheques for way more money than Peter's scam had taken in. However this is assuming that Peter actually understands the financial system and is a shrewd operator. I think Peter's notion is that he can transfer money by sending an email saying:

Transfer £100,000 from WeReBank to Barclays k/thx/bai

and that will facilitate the transfer because all money is 'imaginary' or that saying the cheque can be cleared is enough to clear them.

Peter and his suckers are going to learn that it isn't and he's also going to learn that we have laws against this sort of thing. I think Peter will find himself in Jail and I imagine it will be for a substantial period given the apparent proliferation of fake cheques he's sold.

[littleFred]

Of course there were problems today as Peter wasn't available to answer the clearing hotline. I'm sure everything will be okay tomorrow. Maybe. Well, probably not.

Emily and Cindy were two of the first "success" stories:

Holy shit!!! Sorry for language I've just checked Barclays app and three Barclay cards finito!!!!!
· 28 April at 23:30

Emily, I've paid off the Council Tax, South Yorkshire Water Authority, Virgin Media, a Credit Card Payment, Equita Debt Collectors and the Mortgage! Looks like they have all been cleared cos I posted them about 2 weeks ago. I've had confirmation from Virgin Media and my Credit Card agency.
· 29 April at 01:20

I love that Peter cites a legitimate video about how cheques clear but adds:

NO ARGUMENT – NO DISCUSSION – SIMPLE – FACTUAL

ACCEPT OR REBUT

Speaking for myself, I accept what the video says. But it says nothing about what happens when the drawee bank isn't a real bank and doesn't honour any cheques at all.

I reckon suckers will continue sending cheques for another week or two, and they'll busily write their "protests for dishonour". If I'm wrong and it is all over by Wednesday, what will I do for entertainment?

More importantly, if I lose my fictional hypothetical bet with PeanutGallery -- I have no spare Quatloos. Would you take some slightly soiled Re units, PG?


Why did Peter's scheme suddenly take off? It has been hatching for years. From his FB:

Peter Of England
30 March 2013 ·

NEXT THING...
We are looking for volunteers to help locally promote (as best they can) a roadshow by WeRe Bank and FLS later this summer.

It will, in your region, include 5 towns in 5 days and the AIM is soley to have people IN DEBT turn up at our town centre booth with their loan/mortgage/student loan docs etc.

We will then SCAN, REGISTER and then ASSUME their debt and issue them with a CERTIFICATE OF FULL RESOLUTION of DEBT (CFRD) issued by the International Common Law Court of Record VALID in any INFERIOR court in the land and issue them with their Credit Account number and pass-book for WeRe Bank.

But it was always a vague notion. "Give me your details and your debts, and I'll take them on for you." Even GOOFers could figure that wouldn't work. But "I've created a bank. Just like a real bank, it has cheque-books and can create its own money." Yes, that was plausible to those who wanted to believe.

The chequebooks were a magical piece of marketing. They gave suckers the illusion of being in control, of being able to send money to pay off their own debt.

[PeanutGallery]

South Park did an episode where Kyle assumed the debts of everyone in the town. Of course in the fictional episode, Kyle had a line of credit that allowed him to consolidate everyone's debt and his intention was to pay it.

Peter's plan is to 'magic' away the debt by telling someone they don't owe it any more. That's not assuming the debt it's trying to absolve it. The only person who can fairly write a debt off is the person owed, and then it has to be their choice. Peter's plan won't work and if this second stage to his scheme get's off the ground (which may be unlikely given that I believe the Police will want to have a very serious conversation with him about Fraud in the coming weeks) it will only create confusion and possibly lead to contempt of court charges.

More importantly, if I lose my fictional hypothetical bet with PeanutGallery -- I have no spare Quatloos. Would you take some slightly soiled Re units, PG?

Well damn. I suppose you could send a cheque for the Re...I'd have to accept it because of dishonour and other such confusing concepts.

[littleFred]

That wasn't a second stage, but Peter's perfect plan as of 30 March 2013. I think we can safely say his plans are now scuppered, bar the shouting.

[notorial dissent]

Sounds very much to me like the UK clearing facility is right on par with the US Fed Reserve, about 24 hours. Credit card or bank gets bogus check, provisionally credits the acct it is for, deposits it, gets it back in next cycle and reverses the credit on the suckers acct. Not a good thing for the Bank of Goodfdom. I suspect the gov't entities will be a bit slower to response simply by the nature of their set up, but it looks like the high volume processors get much better and faster turn around. They may even be getting it back electronically, which means the credit and reversal could happen within 1-2 days max. I would suspect by now that the clearing agency has gotten enough them on their mis-match report to have started flagging them and they kick out and go back almost immediately, and some one will have checked that there is no such sort code and there is no legitimate bank with that name.

I don't know about the UK, but in the US it is a requirement for processing that ALL checks have a valid, routing number/sort code, in order to be processed, otherwise they automatically go back to the bank depositing them, and are basically uncollectable through the banking system, and US banks don't do one off collections any more unless it is a very large and verified item, and when they do they charge a hefty fee.

I would say that the house of checks is starting to collapse.