http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... VnypYHD_qB
Note, the banks seem to be wise to the game now, and crafted an good reply, that to the normal person would be quite clear:
Obviously not clear enough So Salie comes to save the day:Hi all,
Received a letter last week, So looked at it and sent letter number 1 along with my copyright declaration. This was sent "signed for" too. Today, received a handwritten envelope with the following letter:- Note: this is verbatim with references removed (including punctuation or lack thereof).
1st credit reference xxxxxxx
Account Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Balance x,xxx.xx
Original Creditor xyz
We are committed to resolving any query or dispute raised by our customers.
Unfortunately it has become commonplace for some customers to send us letters sourced from the internet which do not raise specific queries or disputes relating to their account. They are instead generic template letters which raise matters which have little (if any) relevance to the customer's account and/or have no merit in law.
Rather than using generic letters sourced from the internet we strongly recommend that our customers seek free advice from a reputable organisation. For example; The Money Advice Service, the Citizens Advice Bureau, Step Change Debt Charity, Christians Against Poverty, Payplan etc.
Alternatively we are happy for you to call us to complete an income/expenditure form. This will help us to determine how much you can afford to pay each month towards this debt.
We have already requested a copy agreement from the original creditor, however, if the matter related to a current account overdraft, please be advised that until February 2011 there was no requirement for an agreement as it was exempted from Part V of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In this case we will request copy statements. Any relevant documentation will be sent to you as soon as it is received.
In the meantime we are happy to provide general answers to general questions that these generic template letters often raise;
1. If your letter requested the removal of a telephone number from our contact details this has been done. We reserve the right to reinstate this number if we fail to receive any reply to our correspondence.
2. We are not obliged to provide you with a 'sworn affidavit in accordance with the Bills of Exchange Act 1882'. We therefore decline your request to do so. A notice of assignment was previously posted to you. Please let us know if you require a further copy.
3. We do not require your permission to deal with the account nor do we have a direct contract with you. The contract was between the original creditor and yourself.
4. We would not be named in the agreement. The terms and conditions within the relevant agreement would state that the original creditor would be able to assign the account to a third party but they are not obliged to name them in that agreement. therefore we do not agree with any suggestions that we are acting unlawfully.
5. We are not obliged to provide you with the name of our officer who has seen the original Deed of Assignment or carried out due diligence of the Money Laundering Regulations 2007. We therefore decline your request to do this.
6. We are not obliged to provide you with a copy of the Deed of Assignment and would refer you to Section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 which provides that the debtor is sufficiently notified of the assignment of the debt in writing and not a copy of the Deed itself. We therefore decline your request to do so.
7. We consider the information provided to us by the original creditor to be correct.
8. We are not a third party interloper in this matter.
9. We are fully entitled to process your personal data without your permission. Please refer to Part 1 of Schedule 1 and to Schedule 2, Paragragh 6(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998:-
Schedule 1, Part 1, Paragraph 1, to the Data Protection Act 1998 (the "DPA") sets out the first data protection principle:-
(1) "Personal data shall be processed fairly and lawfully and, in particular, shall not be processed unless-
(a) at least one of the conditions in Schedule 2 is met, and
(b) in the case of sensitive personal data, at least one of the conditions in Schedule 3 is also met"
Schedule 2, Paragraph 6 of the Data Protection Act 1998:-
(1) The processing is necessary for the purposes of legitimate interests pursued by the data controller or by the third party or parties to whom the data are disclosed, except where the processing is unwarranted in any particular case by reason of prejudice to the rights and freedoms or legitimate interests of the data subject.
We consider the interest of Debt recovery a legitimate interest and 1st Credit Ltd being the third party to who the data has been disclosed. As a result, your data will remain on our system and will continue to be processed lawfully.
10. a request for a tripartite delegated novated agreement/contract does not apply. Neither does a request for a 'Deed of Novation'. We therefore decline your request to provide these.
11. We have not registered any 'negative' remarks on your credit file. We have recorded correct information relating to your credit history in accordance with Part 1 of Schedule 1 and to Schedule 2, Paragraph 6(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998.
12. We are unaware of any relevant case law or citation to support your opinion that you can bill us and therefore any claim will be rejected.
13. We are the legal owner of the debt.
14. We have not and do not accept we have a tacit agreement.
15. There is no legal basis for you to claim your costs or expenses from us. Any invoices you send hereafter will be ignored as we do not and will not agree to pay these. They have no basis in Law.
We consider this debt to be due and payable.
We are aware that internet forums provide a 'letter suite' and many customers will, on receipt of our reply simply send the next letter in the suite. We consider it to be totally unnecessary to answer questions we have already replied to.
We are committed to helping our customers replay their debt(s) by agreeing affordable repayment plans. If you want to repay your debt please contact us
Yours sincerely
xxxxxxxxxxx (signed.. squiggle... illegible)
1st Credit Ltd.
This raises a number of questions.
1. I don't remember actually being a customer of this organisation even though they refer to me as such. It would appear that they've requested a copy agreement from the original creditor (not an original). They seem to infer that there is no requirement for an agreement. They then go on to state that they'll send me copy statements. Obviously these aren't originals nor are they the note, deed or indeed signed.
2. not obligated to provide sworn affidavit. They claim a notice of assignment was sent to me which i have never received.
3. They agree they do not have a direct contract with me. Also, that the original contract was between me and the original creditor.
5. obviously not going to provide me with the name of someone who's seen the note.
6. they seem to refer me to the Law of property act.
10. They seem to say i'm no entitled to ask for deed of novation or novated agreement.
13. Interestingly they claim to own the debt. yet I have signed nothing between us as parties.
It would also seem to indicate that they won't respond formally to any further letters as part of this "letter suite".
So do i now send letter two? I would appreciate some guidance/advice in respect of the above.
cheers
Soumar
Yes Salie, opinions are as described, and her opinion should be ignoredLets break it down....."letters sourced from the internet". Okay. So does that mean that all those online lawyers that give you pro forma Wills, Powers of Attorneys or a myriad of other documents are not acceptable? Does this mean that Oyez, a site often used by lawyers to obtain their standard legal forms online are not acceptable? Indeed, does it mean the institution you are writing to does not encourage their "customers" to obtain their forms online? Of course not. Therefore disregard.
"We have already requested a copy agreement from the original creditor, however, if " Okay. Stop right there. Thats all you want. They have requested it. Good. No need to bother expending time writing a load of codswallop was there? IF this IF that. You asked for the agreement, they have requested a copy. All they need to do is produce it
The numbered paragraphs are irrelevant. Whether or not they accept tacit agreement, they have responded to you and have said they have requested a copy of the agreement. Unless and until it is produced, proceed as normal.
You need to remember, whatever they say is only an opinion. Opinions are like ar@@holes, we all have one. Now them testing that opinion in a proper Court of Record before a Judge is quite another matter. So they are entitled to their opinion but that is all it is.
Of course they want you to make contact. They want you to drop the three letters and following their course of action. Contact the legal companies that they deem fit to advise but before your do, do your due diligence and check out just how those same legal organisations have helped others ...there are plenty of reports out there.
"They are committed to helping their customers to repay debts".... well of course they are. They would not exist otherwise... you have to admire their honesty.
You know the Bailiffs have award dinners? Well I think we should have award dinners and give out awards for the most innovative responses...... this isn't really up there but you have to admire the time it probably took to put this together.
another example of plain English thoroughly misinterpriting the response.
