UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

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littleFred
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by littleFred »

I know nothing about appealing a rejected hearing for permission to appeal, but:
tm169 wrote:The only redress is going to the Court of Appeal in London within 21 days. This would be another application on paper for permission to appeal.
To me, this suggests enforcement won't occur until after the 21 days. Counting from 14 May, that would be 4 June 2015. But if Tom does appeal, this might drag out the process for longer. Meanwhile I suppose he is still, in effect, being charged interest on the loan.

Ceylon's argument, "They haven't kicked him out therefore we were right and he has won", smacks of desperation.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by PeanutGallery »

It also takes time to get an appointment with the Bailiffs, they are busy, they have other things to do and their time is sometimes booked long in advance. In Tom's case UKAR have most likely been advised to send the warrant up to the High Court and to have HCEO's attend to evict without prior notification.

Secondly it would be considered very bad form to evict someone on a Sunday or a Bank Holiday when certain avenues of help (Council Offices) are closed, it could lead to significant hardship, especially if it was a non-fault eviction and the council had a duty to house those affected. It's for the same reason that Bailiffs halt evictions during the run up to Christmas, that and the fact that not even Scrooge would evict someone on Xmas eve.

I'm not sure that it is possible to appeal a rejected decision to appeal, due to the law wanting finality, Tom could try asking for a Judicial Review of the appeal courts decision. But he would need to find an error of law when their wasn't one.

Tom has lost. It is sad that he is losing his home and worse that he will find himself taking more of a financial hit than he otherwise should have. But at the end of the day Tom made an agreement, many years ago, that he benefited from and now is trying to not keep up his part of the bargain.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by Bones »

Ceylon's claims that the baliffs were due to turn up yesterday is like most things that idiot posts are highly questionable and more than likely just something he made up.

If they were due to turn up yesterday -

Why was there no public call out for reinforcements to help defend Castle Crawford ?

Why did those that attend the demonstration not stay at Tom's and instead walk towards the Nottingham post, leaving Castle Crawford unprotected ?

Come on Ceylon, your claims and things you post are getting more and more desperate. Just hurry up and post part two of the video, we could all do with a good laugh at whatever you and Guy claim this time :haha:
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by BlueBurmese »

The Notts Anonymous photos are priceless - https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 368&type=1

The "protest" was nothing more than a bunch of creepy, crusty jugglers standing on a roundabout and outside of a closed office block. Who's the gimp in the "Metropolitan Peace" get-up by the way?

I've tried to watch the Tom and Guy judgement explained videos but it's mind-numbing stuff. Why is any explanation of the supposed truth with this lot not based on evidence but on incoherent rants?
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by Hercule Parrot »

vampireLOREN wrote:
Hercule Parrot wrote:Sad situation. He appears to be having some sort of breakdown and sublimating this into nuisance disputes. Wandering barefooted in a derelict house, lost and frightened. Unless he has family or friends who can support him, this is likely to be a slide into disaster.
Yes he needs urgent help, it appears that he is a natural arsehole anyway. Whatever it is that has pushed him towards the edge it is sad to watch....except that he is an ARSEHOLE.
Unless you know him personally, I cannot see how you know that. All we have is that he's behaving like an arsehole right now. But once he was a man who inspired the love of a wife, who earned enough to buy a house. He speaks good English, he has some education. He had some potential to live a decent and fulfilling life, which is now probably lost to him. I cannot bring myself to enjoy this, or to think he somehow deserves it.
Last edited by Hercule Parrot on Sun May 24, 2015 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by Hercule Parrot »

Scilon wrote: so far the bogey men were coming to take toms home on the 23rd well thats come and gonehow long does he need to stay in his home for you all to realise he won?

how come now you naysayers suddenly trust the courts that for years you have all being saying they are corrupt? the end game is TOM & SUE are still in there home and b&b can not get a eviction order again as the case has proved they lied
Interesting reply from one of the frequent GOOFy's -

hi ceylon , just a quick question , has tom payed his areas just wondering if he has payed anything to the bank like he did in 2012 ( think thats right) , when he was getting evicted , could be the reason the boogeyman have not turned up ,i hope the bogeymen don't come on a different day, you no what they are like, karon

We have wondered if TC would pay up secretly and then proclaim victory. I think that he's too deep down the rabbit hole, and he won't do it even if he can find the money. Karon at least understands that the bogeymen will come at a time of their choosing, not for an imaginary time decided by Silly Cyly. Unless of course TC has "payed his areas" by then....
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by Normal Wisdom »

Bones wrote:Finally King Good for nothing has spoken - not about his video which has made him and the goofer cause a laughing stock and lost any credibility that teamcrawford had.

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... 20#p387971

Re: The JUDGEMENT EXPLAINED!!!!!!!!!

Postby ceylon » Sun May 24, 2015 10:47 am
so far the bogey men were coming to take toms home on the 23rd well thats come and gone

how long does he need to stay in his home for you all to realise he won?

how come now you naysayers suddenly trust the courts that for years you have all being saying they are corrupt? (didn't nutjob claim that the crawfords won in court ?)

the end game is TOM & SUE are still in there home and b&b can not get a eviction order again as the case has proved they lied

He seems to have forgotten that b&b already have an eviction order and don't need to get another one :brickwall:

Presumably he was expecting the bailiffs to arrive yesterday? I don't know why except that I think someone jokingly mentioned that the 23rd was the bailiffs favourite date for attempting to evict Tom.

In a strange way, what he says is at least some form of consistency and logic. I doesn't make sense to rely on the courts that for years you've been preaching are corrupt to solve your problem and I don't think Ceylon has much time for the legal route as a solution. He is generally not looking for a knockout win but simply to frustrate "the authorities" by whatever means possible whether that's pseudo-legal nonsense, physical obstruction or simply scrawling drivel about paedophiles on a bill that he returns to sender. I still haven't managed to work him out but I do think he is driven by a hatred of the establishment as much as, if not more than actually helping the individual concerned.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by Silly Ebert »

Bones wrote:Ceylon's claims that the baliffs were due to turn up yesterday is like most things that idiot posts are highly questionable and more than likely just something he made up.

If they were due to turn up yesterday -

Why was there no public call out for reinforcements to help defend Castle Crawford ?

Why did those that attend the demonstration not stay at Tom's and instead walk towards the Nottingham post, leaving Castle Crawford unprotected ?

Come on Ceylon, your claims and things you post are getting more and more desperate. Just hurry up and post part two of the video, we could all do with a good laugh at whatever you and Guy claim this time :haha:
Exactly Ceylon talking rubbish again.

Evictions are not carried out on Saturdays by CC Bailiffs nor are they carried out on Sundays or Bank Holiday Mondays, however any other the day of the week is pretty game.
But according to Ceylon Tom won so why would they come at all??
Trust me guys they will come.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by tm169 »

littleFred wrote:To me, this suggests enforcement won't occur until after the 21 days. Counting from 14 May, that would be 4 June 2015. But if Tom does appeal, this might drag out the process for longer. Meanwhile I suppose he is still, in effect, being charged interest on the loan.
Technically appealing does not prevent enforcement of the order.
52.7 Unless –
(a) the appeal court or the lower court orders otherwise; or
(b) the appeal is from the Immigration and Asylum Chamber of the Upper Tribunal,
an appeal shall not operate as a stay of any order or decision of the lower court.

Most judges would allow a stay of enforcement while the appeal goes through, as they clearly did in the last appeal as the judge had to specifically lift the stay to make the warrant live.

I can see the sense in B&B waiting until they know no Court of Appeal case has been filed before they book a bailiffs appointment.
PeanutGallery wrote:It also takes time to get an appointment with the Bailiffs, they are busy, they have other things to do and their time is sometimes booked long in advance. In Tom's case UKAR have most likely been advised to send the warrant up to the High Court and to have HCEO's attend to evict without prior notification.
Yes some Courts take 4-6 weeks to get a bailiffs appointment. Especially with the publicity etc they will be sending a number of bailiffs. Possibly calling in ones from other courts etc. High Court transfer will take even longer. People have no idea how slow the Courts are. Most courts have a target to respond to correspondence in 14 days but few make it. The backlog is crazy.
I'm not sure that it is possible to appeal a rejected decision to appeal, due to the law wanting finality, Tom could try asking for a Judicial Review of the appeal courts decision. But he would need to find an error of law when their wasn't one..
You can in theory but it would be a huge uphill battle. You'd struggle to JR a decision of a Circuit Judge too. Only really applies to procedural issues can't do it if you think the judge is wrong in fact or law that has to go to the CoA
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by wanglepin »

Postby ceylon » Sun May 24, 2015 10:47 am
how long does he need to stay in his home for you all to realise he won?

how come now you naysayers suddenly trust the courts that for years you have all being saying they are corrupt?
littleFred wrote:Ceylon's argument, "They haven't kicked him out therefore we were right and he has won", smacks of desperation.
It is sounding just as you suggest Little Fred. His quote above seems to be a complaint of ‘the rats leaving a sinking ship’, too. :lol:
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by Normal Wisdom »

Hercule Parrot wrote:
Scilon wrote: so far the bogey men were coming to take toms home on the 23rd well thats come and gonehow long does he need to stay in his home for you all to realise he won?

how come now you naysayers suddenly trust the courts that for years you have all being saying they are corrupt? the end game is TOM & SUE are still in there home and b&b can not get a eviction order again as the case has proved they lied
Interesting reply from one of the frequent GOOFy's -

hi ceylon , just a quick question , has tom payed his areas just wondering if he has payed anything to the bank like he did in 2012 ( think thats right) , when he was getting evicted , could be the reason the boogeyman have not turned up ,i hope the bogeymen don't come on a different day, you no what they are like, karon

We have wondered if TC would pay up secretly and then proclaim victory. I think that he's too deep down the rabbit hole, and he won't do it even if he can find the money. Karon at least understands that the bogeymen will come at a time of their choosing, not for an imaginary time decided by Silly Cyly. Unless of course TC has "payed his areas" by then....
I wonder if UKAR have a bit of a dilemma now? Sure they could enforce the Possession Order and evict Tom although I suspect it would be a fraught business. However, their reason for doing so would be to sell the house. From the recent videos taken at Fearn Close it seems that at least some of the neighbours are fully on Tom's side and anybody buying the house after Tom is evicted might be in for a difficult time. That might inhibit a sale or certainly significantly depress the price they might be prepared to pay.

I seem to remember a suggestion that they were prepared to work with Tom so that he could stay in the house but of course that would require him to accept that he owed the money they claim, in effect to admit that he lost in the recent hearing. There seems to be no sign that he will do that.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by BlueBurmese »

PeanutGallery wrote:Tom could try asking for a Judicial Review of the appeal courts decision. But he would need to find an error of law when their wasn't one.
Tom would need to come up with a skeleton argument to present to a judge to get permission to take it to judicial review. Given the seals and wet ink nonsense has already been dealt with by the lower courts, I can't imagine what that would be. Even if he could come up with something, I think that any judge would be quick to see that this is a simple case of a man not keeping up with his mortgage payments.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by Hercule Parrot »

BlueBurmese wrote:The Notts Anonymous photos are priceless - https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 368&type=1

The "protest" was nothing more than a bunch of creepy, crusty jugglers standing on a roundabout and outside of a closed office block. Who's the gimp in the "Metropolitan Peace" get-up by the way?
Good grief, that's positively embarrassing. At best they had 20 people on the pavement, and about half that number actively waving their arms around.

I counted two pretend cops, who might do well to remind themselves of s90 Police Act 1996 - (2) Any person who, not being a constable, wears any article of police uniform in circumstances where it gives him an appearance so nearly resembling that of a member of a police force as to be calculated to deceive shall be guilty of an offence....

There seem to be a few of these pretend cops lurking in the protest scene. Not sure what their aim is - the real cops will immediately sus them as bogus, so who are they trying to fool?
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by Hercule Parrot »

tm169 wrote:I can see the sense in B&B waiting until they know no Court of Appeal case has been filed before they book a bailiffs appointment...

Yes some Courts take 4-6 weeks to get a bailiffs appointment. Especially with the publicity etc they will be sending a number of bailiffs. Possibly calling in ones from other courts etc. High Court transfer will take even longer. People have no idea how slow the Courts are...
I think that's probably right. B&B will wait for the appeal window to pass, and then get the paperwork and people ready for a decisive repossession. They'll have to clear it through the High Court, liaise with Notts Police to get extra officers made available, bring in bailiffs and contractors to enter/secure the house. It's a big job, they'll want to plan it carefully.

This is going to take a while, during which the GOOFys will naively proclaim victory. Strange really, when they so often use the phrase "Expect Us". We must hope that during this period something happens to put TC into negotiation with the bank, but if he is being cheered as a hero for his idiotic intransigence then he is unlikely to take that opportunity.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by littleFred »

I doubt that B&B want to let Tom stay in B&B's house without paying rent etc. And B&B aren't in the landlord business. Someone on Tom's side might look at the finances: How much does he currently owe B&B? Then:

1. If there is eviction followed by auction, will B&B be fully paid, or will he still owe B&B?

2. If Tom willingly sells up now, would there be cash left over for the Crawfords?

I suspect (but don't know) that #2 is the best option, financially, for both B&B and the Crawfords. But I doubt that his pride (or his advisory group of gurus) will allow this, or anything short of a full eviction complete with braying mob.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by Bones »

BlueBurmese wrote:The Notts Anonymous photos are priceless - https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 368&type=1

The "protest" was nothing more than a bunch of creepy, crusty jugglers standing on a roundabout and outside of a closed office block. Who's the gimp in the "Metropolitan Peace" get-up by the way?

I've tried to watch the Tom and Guy judgement explained videos but it's mind-numbing stuff. Why is any explanation of the supposed truth with this lot not based on evidence but on incoherent rants?
oi guys, got this great idea. let's do a demo and wear anonymous masks so no one knows what we look like

Idiot Number 1

Image


Image

Idiot Number 2

Image

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Idiot Number 3

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Idiot Number 4

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You get the general idea. I have never understood why these idiots claim to be anonymous. They don't even seem to grasp what the word anonymous means
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by Bones »

This is my personal favourite

Image

FULL STORY OR NO STORY

The story has already been published, asking for no story now is a little late in the day
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by BlueBurmese »

littleFred wrote: 1. If there is eviction followed by auction, will B&B be fully paid, or will he still owe B&B?

2. If Tom willingly sells up now, would there be cash left over for the Crawfords?
In both cases, I reckon there will be money left over although certainly more if he was able to take option two. Realistically, I doubt that B&B would agree to wait for a sale which could take a long time and be easily frustrated. Far easier to repo and sell at auction, after all we're only talking about £46k on an asset that under normal circumstances is probably worth around £130k. These are not normal circumstances however and the value of the house will be depressed by a forced sale and the risk of ongoing actions against the property and the new occupiers (think Ebert and Paula Campbell). Let's call it £100k for the sake argument. From this though, B&B are going to want their costs which will include legal fees, aborted repo attempts, and auction fees for selling the property. Call it £10k. Tom hasn't paid any interest on the outstanding capital balance since September 2013 so B&B will want that covered. I reckon that's somewhat over £6k, rising every month and presumably compounding.

In a repo situation, Tom would probably end up with somewhere between £35-40k give or take a bit on my rough estimates. That's not terrible as at least he'll be able to put up the deposit for a rental house. The issue then is you have a financially gullible man sitting on a large pot of cash. He'll be conned out of the lot in a matter of months.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by PeanutGallery »

Bones wrote:You get the general idea. I have never understood why these idiots claim to be anonymous. They don't even seem to grasp what the word anonymous means
Fun Fact, they don't have a clue about the history of Anonymous, how it started or why the masks are even worn.

A lot of people, including myself, who were involved in some of the earlier Anonymous protests and activities find these people tiring idiots who are jumping on the bandwagon because we somehow made Anonymous fashionable. We didn't mean to do that.

Anonymous started on the message boards of 4Chan, I won't link because it's not part of the civilised internet. If you have a clear mental picture of what is meant by these terms, "Lemonparty", "Tubgirl", "Goatse" you've either been there or read a posting by someone who has. If not don't (also don't ever put those terms into google). It was a place where people practised and refined the art of trolling. People were able to practice this because a board on 4Chan /b/ allowed anyone to post under the moniker "Anonymous" if they so wished. Anonymous became the username used when you wanted to suggest something fun for 4Chan to do.

The reason behind Anonymous was comedy, it did stupid things that were designed to cause offence and played pranks, in it's very earliest days. This included doing stupid things like taking over a browser based game called Habbo Hotel by a group of avatars all dressed the same and blocking access to the pool or making swastikas out of characters in the game. This wasn't just the fun of 4Chan though, other sites like Something Awful and Fark all played a part in these sort of shenanigans.

They were at that time the offensive little corner of the internet where a bunch of nerds were immature and offensive because they could be. They still are.

Then they decided to be offensive to the Church of Scientology (now whatever your opinion is about the CoS, be it creepy cult, well natured religion, or that thing Tom Cruise does) isn't that important. What was important was that a Scientology video of Tom Cruise talking about the joy he gets from being a super special Scientologist leaked onto the internet and 4Chan found it hilarious. So hilarious they kept posting and reposting it.

Nobody would have noticed or cared if the CoS hadn't done what the CoS does to anyone critical of the Church which was to send lawyers to try and take the video's down. That annoyed 4Chan, they were interfering with "teh lulz" which was considered sin. So 4Chan decided (in a collective gestalt way) to do some real digging on Scientology.

They found out a lot of stuff, the Linda McPherson Trust, some of the accounts by former Sea Org members of what they go through and decided this was wrong. 4Chan didn't like the church and decided to do something about it offline, some members also did very naughty things with a program made by 4Chan called the Low Orbit Ion Cannon to attack Scientology servers.

This led to the first (dis)organised worldwide protest of Scientology. 4Chan had done enough reading up on Scientology (these weren't dumb people) to know that if someone protested outside a Scientology church the church had a policy about finding out and publishing critical information. So the message went out, turn up wearing a mask.

So why did they pick THAT mask. Well they didn't. At least it wasn't a conscious decision. The movie "V for Vendetta" had just been released and nerds being nerds some had got copies of the mask because nerds do that. So they had this mask, from the film, and they thought "That'll do when I go protest, it'll hide my face".

The mask evolved from their on. It became a meme that Anonymous should all look alike, that you shouldn't be readily able to distinguish one member from another, so that the CoS couldn't develop up a file on you. That's why it's especially stupid that these anons paint and decorate their masks. The idea of wearing a mask is to make yourself not identifiable and the idea of THAT mask is that you look just like the guys standing next to you, so when you swap places you become harder to track.

The protests against Scientology also kind of split the movement, because suddenly Anonymous was doing something serious and serious was new territory for them. Some wanted to go back to doing offensive things for the lulz. In the end the gestalt consciousness of Anonymous reached an epiphany, anyone could join Anonymous (no secret handshake, no leaders, no responsibility, no way of joining other than just deciding for yourself that you wanted to), anyone could propose an op, and if other people who wanted to be Anonymous joined you, then that was fine.

So to a certain extent they can call themselves Anonymous and they can put on a mask. But to a lot of old school Anon's they are the idiot fringe and are tolerated because they make a lot of noise and attract a lot of attention that can keep other, more serious, Anon's from being identified.

Their is a rather good documentary on Anonymous available on Netflix. Called "We are Legion: The story of the Hacktivists". If you want to know more about the movement it's worth a watch.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by JonnyL »

Hercule Parrot wrote:
vampireLOREN wrote:
Hercule Parrot wrote:
Unless you know him personally, I cannot see how you know that. All we have is that he's behaving like an arsehole right now. But once he was a man who inspired the love of a wife, who earned enough to buy a house. He speaks good English, he has some education. He had some potential to live a decent and fulfilling life, which is now probably lost to him. I cannot bring myself to enjoy this, or to think he somehow deserves it.
my understanding of the Josh situation is this, he had an extra marital affair, and that was the reason his wife left him, and it seems that claims that he's renovating the house might not be true, the suggestion the police made was that he's ripping the house apart rather than renovating it, hence the dump in the communal walkway at the side of his house. What is odd is that he's created a YouTube channel to show the world.
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