Peter of England: A REal guru.

[timcurgenven1]

New meeting planned on were bank website at a community centre in . St Anne's-on-the-Sea, can anyone help me on this one and find out who owns it?

[Hercule Parrot]

http://www.stmargaretofantioch.com/#!co ... centre/cdi is a possible, but..

http://www.newhorizonsstannes.com/directions.htm seems more likely - their standard programme is very much in line with OPCA woo - all crystal healing, anti-globalism and Mi5 mind control . http://www.newhorizonsstannes.com/2015.htm is a list of prior babbling nutjobs illustrious speakers.

To be honest, they'll love PoE and werebank, and I think we should let them all have some quality time together. Peter will take a gullible crowd like this into the palm of his hand, and gently squeeze their money out. They deserve each other.

[JonnyL]

New meeting planned on were bank website at a community centre in . St Anne's-on-the-Sea, can anyone help me on this one and find out who owns it?

this one maybe? http://www.stthomas.uk.net/Parish.php

[PeanutGallery]

Again from reading the GOODF thread I note that Marukee keeps posting about people being free to join WeRe bank.

I would argue that he has a certain point, people are indeed free to do whatever they wish and this can include making mistakes. However I would question if Marukee has considered that if people are free to join WeRe then they are also free to choose not to join WeRe and also free to choose if they wish to accept or refuse the 'Re' form of currency.

The misapplication of logic in Marukee's statement is that while an individual is free to choose to use Peter's bank, that use requires them to force acceptance of the 'Re' onto others, so while Marukee may choose to use the bank those he sends 'Re' out to aren't afforded that same freedom in his eyes. If they choose not to join the WeRe (and lets face it, not joining is probably the sensible call) and instead decide that they want payment in pounds sterling, Marukee and his ilk will attack them and claim they aren't playing fair.

The problem that Marukee has is that the way the Re is structured puts the cart before the horse in financial terms, in that people with an abundance of something that has no value (Re units) want to use that to obtain items that have value. Normal currencies work the other way around, if I wanted to sell all my worldly possessions for beans, I could, I could even work out how many beans each thing I have is worth, but if you came to my door and offered to buy, say my television for five beans, I'd be entitled to refuse that offer because I don't need to accept beans.

The customers of WeRe bank have debts that are in pounds, they aren't going to be able to pay this debt with anything other than pounds, and they certainly aren't going to pay it with made up imaginary money that only exists in the head of a man who has a questionable attachment to reality.

[wanglepin]

Over in goofland there is a "plea for sanity" in the WeRe forum
Who she trying to kid. Are there many over there in goofsville that have control over their own minds?

Trolls we can do little about, though here maybe the mods need to take a firmer line with them than they have been doing and to root them out.

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... X_RGzTF98E

[guilty]

The misapplication of logic in Marukee's statement is that while an individual is free to choose to use Peter's bank, that use requires them to force acceptance of the 'Re' onto others, so while Marukee may choose to use the bank those he sends 'Re' out to aren't afforded that same freedom in his eyes. If they choose not to join the WeRe (and lets face it, not joining is probably the sensible call) and instead decide that they want payment in pounds sterling, Marukee and his ilk will attack them and claim they aren't playing fair.

But they are not forcing Re onto others. The majority of people who have joined WeRe Bank have joined because Peter tells them they can write WeRe cheques in £pounds to pay of their mortgages, rent, council taxes, HMRC etc.
I'm sure that most people on this forum would agree that setting up a community currency or barter group is an admirable thing, and there are many such schemes that are successful - when they are set up correctly. But that isn't what PoE is doing.

[guilty]

http://www.newhorizonsstannes.com/directions.htm seems more likely - their standard programme is very much in line with OPCA woo - all crystal healing, anti-globalism and Mi5 mind control . http://www.newhorizonsstannes.com/2015.htm is a list of prior babbling nutjobs illustrious speakers.

It definitely is the New Horizons crowd. The WeRe Bank notice displays the New Horizons logo.

[Losleones]

BertieBassett also asks members to only use a WeRe cheque "when your back is against the wall" Eh? Obviously the fake cheques are useless but what sort of garbage is that? Is Bertie advising goofers to send larger duff cheques for let's say, to clear your mortgage then, as I'd consider my back was more slightly against the wall for a mortgage debt than a parking fine. What an idiot this promoter of Re is making himself look over on goofy & Smilingalltheway is making him look rather foolish. The banter over there is pretty tedious garbage between debunkers & believers,the latter being the ones who believe the banks create money from thin air & haven't got an igloo about how PNs work. It doesn't help matters for them when Re bank promoter Bertie doesn't either.....but then what does he care as he's only there to receive commission for spouting garbage goofers want to hear.

[littleFred]

The majority of people who have joined WeRe Bank have joined because Peter tells them they can write WeRe cheques in £pounds to pay of their mortgages, rent, council taxes, HMRC etc.

Yes, and Peter also says WeRe Bank won't pay the payee in pounds, but in Res. In that sense, insisting that payees are required to accept WeRe cheques amounts to an insistence that they accept Res.

Of course, anyone is enititled to accept Res instead of pounds if they want to. That's how community currencies work. By asserting that payees are obliged to accept Res, Peter is lying.

BertieBert parrots the lie, and is currently spamming GOODF with assertions that pounds are worthless. He supports Peter's position that all these horrible toxic pounds should be sent to Peter, who will very kindly convert them to Res.

[Jeffrey]

What's with all the backtracking and ass-covering? In 2013 Peter explicitly stated that WeRe checks can be used to purchase "fuel, goods and services"

https://youtu.be/YvNl9-NPYWw?t=2m14s

[PeanutGallery]

The majority of people who have joined WeRe Bank have joined because Peter tells them they can write WeRe cheques in £pounds to pay of their mortgages, rent, council taxes, HMRC etc.

That is basically where Peter is pulling off the old bait and switch. They think they can write Cheques in pounds but Peter's bank only operates on his totally imaginary 'Re'. Peter claims to only pay creditors in "Re" but lets be honest here, he isn't paying those cheques in ANYTHING, he's adjusting a ledger (if he's even actually doing that - and if he is I would doubt he is accounting for all the Re units suddenly being credited to organisations).

[PeanutGallery]

BertieBassett also asks members to only use a WeRe cheque "when your back is against the wall"

If we take that at it's meaning, what Bertie is actually saying is don't use these cheques if you aren't clutching at straws, I would suggest that he is only making this statement because he knows if you tried using them when your back wasn't against the wall, it soon will be. In the real world I can use cheques from my real bank account at a real bank regardless of my backs proximity to walls (or anything else for that matter). That is what they are their for, so I can use them (or at least I could if I could remember where the bloody book was).

[littleFred]

This should be another clue to anyone thinking about joining WeRe.

Normal banks don't dictate what their cheques can be used for. Peter's does because he knows WeRe Bank won't pay any cheques.

Normal banks don't say, "Only use our cheques when your back is against the wall." BertieBert says this because he knows the cheques will only buy a little time. They won't pay off the debt because WeRe Bank won't pay any cheques.

[Jeffrey]

I came across a little nugget I hadn't noticed in this video:

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show ... 6481603620

At 7:45 there is a mention that Terry Nichols, (the Oklahoma city bombing one), once tried to pay off $40,000 by starting his own bank. But I can't find any sources confirming that.

Edit: NVM I found it:

The Wisconsin resident, a member of a right-wing group called Family Farm Preservation, says he plans to “expose the whole system” later this summer when he faces trial on federal charges that he and two other group members defrauded hundreds of people in a fake money-order scam.

Oklahoma City bombing suspect Terry Nichols accused banks of stealing customers’ money and refused to pay back thousands of dollars he charged on his credit card, according to tapes of a 1993 Michigan civil court proceeding and bank sources.

Instead, Nichols tried to pay off the banks with one of Family Farms’ phony money orders, saying that since banks lend funny money, they should be paid back with it.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/1995/j ... f-bankers/
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid= ... 8301&hl=en

So yeah, direct predecessor to Peter's plan.

[FatGambit]

I gave up trying to reason as soon as someone started arguing that offering payment with a ReWe cheque for a debt wasn't acknowledging the debt and that everybody was obliged to accept ReWe whether they agreed or not.

They just didn't seem to get the concept that the only type of payment people are obliged to accept here is GBP Sterling, and that payment by other means can only be completed if both parties agree. There was also this one guy who tried to argue that a cheque is legal tender because he found the wording 'a cheque is an acceptable form of legal tender' without understanding what it meant, so of course in his mind a ReWe cheque is as good as a £20 note, regardless of what currency it's written in.

I don't know what they're doing, it's like they're trying to convince themselves that they are right sothat when this poor, or perhaps stupid, woman get's herself evicted, they can say 'it's not your fault, the shills caused you to be homeless'.

[PeanutGallery]

I think we'll start hearing that the reason the cheques are being refused is because the lizardy run Rothschild Jew banking cartel wing of the illimunati won't let Peter 'win' because if he did he would bring their corrupt system down.

If Peter's arrested some of them would try to paint him as a political prisoner, or a martyr for their sins.

What they won't do is question if Peter was actually defrauding them or for that matter consider that the Cheques didn't work because they are worthless. People will be evicted for some this will have very serious consequences, I'd wager some may find themselves facing additional criminal charges and others will get themselves into a deeper financial hole.

Basically their is a certain state that someone can get into, where they convince themselves that a scam is genuine, because it's telling them something they expect to hear and that they want to hear. Because of this they form a connection to the scam, and when someone tries to debunk it they take it as a personal attack on them, an accusation on their character. That is one of the reasons why you see such charged emotional responses from some posters on GOODF. They are so invested, on a personal level, with the scam that any attack on it becomes an attack on them.

These are also always the hardest to reach because the more you try to help them, the more harm they think you are doing to them. It's a shame, to see people being taken advantage of in this manner, but at the same time we should remember that everyone involved in this is an adult and should be responsible for their actions. We have tried to help. Take some credit and cheer from the notion that for the people you couldn't reach, their will have been those you could and those you did.

[littleFred]

They misunderstand the rules, often deliberately, so when banks etc don't abide by the GOOFy misunderstandings the GOOFers can cry, "Fraud!"

That "acceptable legal tender" phrase came from a working paper published on the Bank of England website. The views are of the authors, not the bank. The context is:

As indicated in the passage from Schumpeter above, Investor B goes about his transaction with Investor A without any ex-ante intention of becoming a saver. His only intention is to sell machines, and to accept payment for his machines. In a modern economy cheques or money orders drawn on bank accounts are not only acceptable legal tender, they are the dominant practical means of making such payments, and Investor B would not remain in business for long if he did not accept them. But that means that he, or someone else to whom he might pass his deposit to make some business payments, has to end up being a new saver.

The Cheque and Credit Clearing Company make the situation plain:

Ever since their inception it has been the case that cheques are not a promise to pay by the bank, but a request to the bank that it pays, out of the funds deposited by the customer, an amount to a third party. This means that the bank will only honour the cheque if the account holder has sufficient funds to meet it or it can be covered by an agreed overdraft or other line of credit. Cheques are not legal tender and never have been. Even today, if you owe someone money they are not obliged to accept a cheque. Instead a creditor is entitled to be paid in legal tender and can refuse payment in any other form.

If cheques were legal tender, there would be a statute or case law that said so. There isn't.

[FatGambit]

Yeah I though about posting that, but just didn't have the energy, no doubt they would find a way to dismiss it.

[notorial dissent]

As was previously pointed out, NO ONE is making people join WeRe Bank. And NO ONE can be made to accept it. If they want to use it amongst themselves that is entirely fine and legal, it is just the expecting that the rest of the world is going to voluntarily play along. Funny thing, that you usually don't have to force desperate, greedy, stupid people to do stupid things, they will do it all on their own. Case in point. There is nothing wrong with a community currency as long as it is accepted that ONLY people within the community can be expected to use/honor it. That little step, like the whole bank clearing seems to have entirely eluded this group. The thing is that PoE has quite literally sold these people a bill of goods that is totally false.

[FatGambit]

That exact argument was pointed out by several in the 'rent' thread, but they were deleted by a mod, i'm assuming it was Ceylon.