Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

[notorial dissent]

I can't say it comes as any great shock considering the charges and what they must have had to back it up. I couldn't imagine the Crown would waste all that time and money just for the fun of it, although I have seen stranger things. Deano will have all kinds of fun spinning this, but I would suspect/hope that at the very least he'll be on tight probation for some time to come, which he will of course almost immediately violate. He and Brian Alexander definitely qualify as Idiots in Chief.

[bmxninja357]

In pseudo legal lore one can plead guilty to the facts without pleading guilty to the crime. I'm not sure how it works without shooting for some other legal means such as jury nullification in conjunction.


So as lost in a legal swamp as deaner is I'm wondering if he said he was guilty of the facts in court and it was accepted as a change of plea or something like that.

Or if he was just plain found guilty.

Peace
ninj

[Hanslune]

Could anyone explain briefly what rights of appeal he might in a Canadian court? Or do appeals come after sentencing?

[Fmotlgroupie]

In pseudo legal lore one can plead guilty to the facts without pleading guilty to the crime. I'm not sure how it works without shooting for some other legal means such as jury nullification in conjunction.


So as lost in a legal swamp as deaner is I'm wondering if he said he was guilty of the facts in court and it was accepted as a change of plea or something like that.

Or if he was just plain found guilty.

Peace
ninj

I suppose if he felt like being cooperative and saving everyone involved time and trouble (big ifs) he could have signed an agreed statement of facts with the Crown, and then just argued the law. But a) Dean would never be that cooperative, and b) the "trial" (just legal arguments) would have lasted about two hours, not all week.

[grixit]

I'm assuming he's being monitored and has had his passport taken so i don't see how he could skip.

Well, one very faint possibility. Get into a small boat on the north coast, and head for Greenland. Of course that would entail considerable hardship and Dean doesn't seem like the hardship enduring kind.

[notorial dissent]

I still can't believe he went through an entire trial without getting ejected for language. If so, I think that is a first for him. He and Alexander have two of the foulest mouths I think I've seen in quite a while, particularly when attending court.

I know, I know, he could skip to TX and help out Fern. They seem like two gooney birds of a feather.

[bmxninja357]

I suppose if he felt like being cooperative and saving everyone involved time and trouble (big ifs) he could have signed an agreed statement of facts with the Crown, and then just argued the law. But a) Dean would never be that cooperative, and b) the "trial" (just legal arguments) would have lasted about two hours, not all week.

If the deaner said something like I might be guilty of the facts but it's not a crime and you have no authority It would've be enough for the judge to find him guilty. Remember he has a fool for an attorney. .....

Peace
ninj

[Llwellyn]

HANSLUNE - you must be sentenced to be able to appeal How could you appeal something that hasn't happened yet.

As for Dean, the spin already is.. It's their ball, it's their arena, it's their court (basketball analogy) it's their game, so they win, no point in even trying to fight back. So he really just rolled over for them. He didn't enter a guilty plea or anything, that would require him accepting their authority and power over him. Yes the full spin will be, that the Court is corrupt, the Queen is corrupt, etc etc, and that poor ol Dean and all his magic woo words didn't stand a chance in the court that just simply would not listen to him anyways.
Dean knows SOOOO much about Law, and countries, and what makes a person, and corporation, the court couldn't afford to listen to him!!!
Reality is, Dean probably came to the conclusion, that all the freeman woo/words/magic jellybeans is all nonsensical crap, and that it won't work, because it is inherently flawed. That courts work in Facts, and not fictional imaginary sovereign land. To save face, and 'fight the good fight', he comes out and says that he' got proof on the queen now..
HEY DEAN, Clue in, the QUEEN in Canada, is really a PURE figurehead, and has no functional authority. We use the Queen, in name only, instead of calling the courts, the governmental positions, etc etc, something else. This is one of those instances where a NAME is truely just that, a name.

[Fmotlgroupie]

Could anyone explain briefly what rights of appeal he might in a Canadian court? Or do appeals come after sentencing?

I'm very open to correction but here's my thoughts:
-appeals have to be launched within 30 days but conviction appeals are usually heard alongside sentence appeals so don't hold your breath
-I think Dean was tried in Queen's Bench, and so he can appeal to the provincial court of appeal, and after that he can try the Supreme Court of Canada. That's it, no extra rounds of appeals
-the idea of challenging the conviction or the prosecution in federal court is "not even wrong", as they say

[notorial dissent]

This is one of those instances where a NAME is truely just that, a name.

And yet, that NAME, convicted him, and will probably send him off to jail for a time. So.....

[Jeffrey]

One small question, is it normal to remain out on bail between the conviction and sentencing?

[Llwellyn]

Jeffery - because Dean is not classified as a 'violent' or 'dangerous' criminal, he is allowed to remain on bail, to handle his affairs, get things sorted etc etc.

[bmxninja357]

Yes he can remain out on bail while you await sentencing. Get your affairs in order. Flee the jurisdiction. Buy a big hat and sunglasses. Wait for the hammer to drop...

Peace
ninj

[LightinDarkness]

Dean Clifford showed up on a sovcit conference call "my private audio" this week:
http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/ta ... 904&cmd=tc

Its around the 2 hour 30 minute mark (!), and much of it involves passively arguing with another insane guru (Karl Lentz). Nevertheless, its a good laugh - dean explains how people lose in their sovcit cases because the judge can "smell the fear." You see, if you are not fearful, the magic works. And Dean, being a MAN and very macho, is never fearful. So I wonder how he will explain his upcoming court loss.

You get to hear lots of Karl Lentz (made up) war stories about how courts flee in fear from his 8 word claims and how his "clients" are always found not guilty because of his magic claims.

[wserra]

You get to hear lots of Karl Lentz (made up) war stories about how courts flee in fear from his 8 word claims and how his "clients" are always found not guilty because of his magic claims.

Not always. In fact, in all likelihood not ever.

[Jeffrey]

So there's six hours of Angela Stark's show a day, 12 hours of Karl Lentz' show a day.

There are not enough hours in the day to keep up with this.

[Jeffrey]

Some good content by WUP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQMsW7sz654

[Hanslune]

Some good content by WUP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQMsW7sz654

Ah so he went with the I'm an idiot defense. I have to admit that its a good choice - for him, almost as good as my suggesting he try the invisible defense.....

[notorial dissent]

Well, it would be at least an honest defense.

[Fussygus]

I suppose if he felt like being cooperative and saving everyone involved time and trouble (big ifs) he could have signed an agreed statement of facts with the Crown, and then just argued the law. But a) Dean would never be that cooperative, and b) the "trial" (just legal arguments) would have lasted about two hours, not all week.

If the deaner said something like I might be guilty of the facts but it's not a crime and you have no authority It would've be enough for the judge to find him guilty. Remember he has a fool for an attorney. .....

Peace
ninj

He has two different theories going that can't cross paths. I have heard that "guilty of facts" method of attacking a charge, but problem is that when you do that you are submitting to the court jurisdiction. Dean doesn't want to do that because he is banking on usurping the court as having jurisdiction over him. He thinks by claiming he is there under duress he has not submitted to the court's jurisdiction. But sadly he is mistaken, you can't show up to someone else's wedding and stand on the alter and say your not the groom. It walks like a duck...

Likewise, you can't use the fruits of this society and not expect that the society will not hold you accountable to it's rules. The rules are based on the Common position that have developed over time (do no harm to others, nothing is free....). This society (the commons) has decided that it is not in it's best interests to have drugs grown by individuals (or at least without regulation) and it is not in this societies interest that any individual possess X firearm for both that individuals and the collectives best interests. He may not agree with it, and he can say so in the Common Law court, but only if he agrees that such court has jurisdiction over him. Sort a Catch 22 with his positions (he wants Common Law court, but doesn't consider himself part of the commons. Can't suck and blow).

His only other option would be to be an invader of this land, not a member of the Common. I would say his stink in the clink is more akin to that than as a member of this society.

He is free to start an uprising against the PTB but I'm guessing his army is already decimated by his leadership without vision, and/or the obvious implication of his desire to be King.

Fuzzy