Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

[arayder]

Dean always acts like he has some killer legal argument. But he doesn't know what he's talking about. It seems to me he did everything he could to dig himself a deep hole long before he got arrested.

He publicly challenged the cops to bust his grow-op. He then neglected to get his cache of unregistered and prohibited firearms off the property. Add in his propensity for attacking and threatening cops and smarting off to judges and the hole only gets deeper.

Now he's still pretending some sort of freeman magic is going to get him out of the jam he's in.

[bmxninja357]

I have no Facebook so I can't check but is anything new arisen on the Dean scene?

Thanks
Ninj

[Jeffrey]

Nothing worth reporting.

Canada is devoid of freeman news.

[eric]

Nothing worth reporting.
Canada is devoid of freeman news.

You could always journey over to Tender for Law on facebook, various people are getting their utility bills cut off and believe that by following Scott Duncan`s magic formula they can get their power and gas for free. That being said, the whole group of them is so personally irritating that I can only handle them in small doses.

[Burnaby49]

Nothing worth reporting.
Canada is devoid of freeman news.

You could always journey over to Tender for Law on facebook, various people are getting their utility bills cut off and believe that by following Scott Duncan`s magic formula they can get their power and gas for free. That being said, the whole group of them is so personally irritating that I can only handle them in small doses.

I've been following that discussion too but decided not to post it because the whole thing is just stupid. Kent Barrett has lost his utilites for non-payment and they are all sitting around giving each other magic solutions how to get it back without paying for it. All the while the utility is just ignoring them. The discussion started in October 2014 and, 133 comments later, they are still at it. Kent is now trying his magic remedies on the Canada Revenue Agency. Good luck!

[Jeffrey]

Jerks won't let me join the group.

[eric]

Jerks won't let me join the group.

Not worth it unless you are prepared to sacrifice your soul to Scott Duncan. After you jump through hoops that verge on silliness (playing some video game for instance) and are approved for membership, if you post anything that disturbs their mindset you will be removed from the group and all your posts will be deleted just in case your thoughts infect their mind set.

[pigpot]

Hello all,

I will agree that Sovereign Citizens are moronic at best. Same as Freemen-on-the-land. I myself walked away happily from that rubbish some time ago. Not that I ever bought (payed) into it. Not a cent. I had many rows (as some maybe aware) over on the WFS site with site administrators and moderators towards the end of my time there and have no issue with exposing the woo that the gullible sup up.

So it's good to be here. Please don't mention anything regarding negative approaches on my behalf as I am more than aware of the rules here and I will be abiding by them. I look forward to the discussions here.

I do like the idea of this site in exposing fraud as lies are one of the things I can't stand.

Okay as you were. At ease.

[Burnaby49]

Let me be the first to finally welcome you. I've said some negative things about you here but I'll hold my judgment and see how it goes.

[pigpot]

Cheers. I forgive you.

[pigpot]

So what's the gossip about Dean then Burnaby... Rhetorical I know but I'm just asking for your thoughts in general on it.

[Jeffrey]

Current state of affairs is, there was a meeting after the guilty verdict seemingly to discuss the secession plan but there's been no leaks about what it consists of. There's total radio silence.

Dean claims to be preparing a federal lawsuit to get restitution for the 16 months in jail. My current hypothesis is that he's doing so under the advice of Karl Lentz, should get confirmation of that if he files it and we get a copy of it.

Dean's parole officer has to prepare a pre-sentencing report before the November sentencing. So what is probably happening behind the scenes is Dean is playing by the rules and sucking up to the parole officer so the report recommends a very light sentence. However, the conspicuous presence of gardening supplies in the last Dean video suggests Dean may be going back to selling weed, which might be hard to keep hidden from your parole officer.

[notorial dissent]

Of course he's going to file a lawsuit, he's always going to file a lawsuit, and he always ends up back at the same place, on the other side of the court door. He was in jail by his own hand, so I really don't see where he thinks he has anything to file a complaint about. Sounds par for the course, one loser following the advice, and I really use the term loosely here, and goign to go down in flames.

He may be on parole, but I doubt if he's going to change his behavior sufficiently.

So they are plotting "secession", what are they going to secede from this time. Wonder if that would count as a parole violation?

[Burnaby49]

So what's the gossip about Dean then Burnaby... Rhetorical I know but I'm just asking for your thoughts in general on it.

Actually I've not posted about Dean since his convictions because other issues have distracted me. However I have corresponded with people who know court procedure and sentencing issues much better than I do and I can give, as you ask, my thoughts in general on the situation.

As Jeffrey pointed out on Quatloos, Dean Clifford's sentencing is set for Nov. 5, 2012. In the meantime there has been an order from Martin J. for the preparation of a PSR / Gladue report.

A "PSR" is a "Pre-Sentence Report". This is a written expert report. A PSR is typically prepared by a parole officer who is ordered to prepare a history and assessment of the offender, to assist in sentencing. This is, effectively, an official 'context' for the offender. A PSR has a number of 'data inputs':

1) Interview with the offender to establish the offender's history (from their perspective), the offender's views of being found guilty, of victims, and authority figures.

2) Interviews with family members, intimates, associates, coworkers to develop a broader background on the offender and his history. Usually relationship histories are explored. Depending on how cooperative these witnesses are this can be quite a deep investigation of the offender's background. This process is also intended to also evaluate what kind of 'social safety net' exists to help the offender control his misconduct and rehabilitate.

3) A comprehensive review of the offender's past misconduct - this is usually focussed on criminal offenses, but certainly might extend into tax, or civil proceedings, in certain cases.

4) A detailed review of post-offence conduct such as behavior while detained in remand, or on parole.

The offender's risk of re-offence is usually evaluated, both in general and as a violent offender. This process is typically conducted with a number of actuarial tools.

The PSR author may make recommendations as well, but these cannot be to sentence length itself - that's up for the judge and the parties. PSR authors do make recommendations on whether certain kinds of rehabilitation may be particularly helpful - such as a drug addict may be recommended to certain kinds of treatment. The PSR author also recommends whether or not the offender can or cannot safely serve his sentence in the community as part of a conditional sentencee.

The net result is intended to provide the sentencing judge with a background that allows the judge to evaluate whether this is a long-term repeat offender, how well the offender responds to restrictions on his freedom, the offender's prospects for rehabilitation and reintegration, whether the offender acknowledges his misconduct, degrees of family support, and so on.

A "Gladue" report is named after the case R. v. Gladue, [1999] 1 SCR 688, which evaluated what Criminal Code, s 718.2(e) means:

718.2 A court that imposes a sentence shall also take into consideration the following principles: ...

(e) all available sanctions other than imprisonment that are reasonable in the circumstances should be considered for all offenders, with particular attention to the circumstances of aboriginal offenders.

The SCC has said that this provision means that where an aboriginal and non-aboriginal offender engage in the same misconduct, a shorter sentence or non-prison sentence may be ordered for the aboriginal offender because there are a disproportionate number of aboriginal offenders imprisoned in Canada. This is an exception to the rule in Criminal Code, s 718.2(b) that "a sentence should be similar to sentences imposed on similar offenders for similar offences committed in similar circumstances".

Section 718.2(e) is not commonly discussed in public in Canada, but it has a certain degree of controversy. The SCC recently commented on the Gladue sentencing process in R. v. Ipeelee, [2012] 1 SCR 433, 2012 SCC 13, where it confirmed this process applies in any criminal offense scenario where the offender is aboriginal, and that this is not "a race-based discount on sentencing". That comment is, in my opinion, nonsense. What else can it be considered but race-based? Anyhow irrelevant to our current discussion.

A Gladue report is an expert report much like a PSR, but it is intended to document how the aboriginal offender has been affected by injustice and social dysfunction that relates to their aboriginal heritage. For example, this would include whether the offender or his family had been affected by the Residential Schools process, histories of domestic violence and substance abuse, and reported racist or prejudicial experiences, such as being called names in school.

Bill Lumbergh asked whether Dean is aboriginal. Not that I'm aware. I think it possible that the Manitoba Queen's Bench simply records Gladue and PSR reports together as a hybrid even when an offender is not aboriginal, and therefore would not normally be the subject of a Gladue report.

For example, R. v. Deleon, 2011 MBQB 165 involves a non-aboriginal offender guilty of drug trafficking. The QB database record indicates a Jan. 31, 2011 "order for report (PSR-Gladue)". Similarly, in R. v. Castres, 2013 MBQB 13 we have another non-aboriginal drug trafficker. His court document #25 is "PSR Ordered", and this is reported at entry #26 as "order for report (PSR-Gladue)".

This suggests that the practice at the MBQB is simply that they record all PSR orders as "PSR-Gladue" reports. Perhaps that jurisdiction has integrated preparation of both components. That makes sense, logistically.

In any case Dean is clearly convicted of some of his offenses - probably all of them, and now the clock is ticking. Jeffrey asked if sentencing in November is a long delay - I'd say not taking into account the courts shut down/slow down over the summer. A PSR can be a pretty complex thing, and involves a lot of leg work to prepare. In Dean's case, that could be doubly so - there's a lot of history to uncover, particularly if Dean says "I DO NOT CONSENT!" to preparing the PSR. Which we all know is quite probable.

The Crown has tendered, probably as sentencing evidence, two books of documents. My guess is that these will be Dean's crank and OPCA correspondence, his online activities, perhaps business and tax matters, and so on. Background again to 'round up' Dean's character. After all, up til now it has actually been irrelevant, in an evidentiary basis, whether Dean has a criminal record, was an OPCA guru, whether Dean had threatened law enforcement and corrections officials, judges, court staff, and so on. That is not relevant to these specific grow-op and firearms charges (as in whether the Crown had proved its case), and that information would have been excluded from trial.

But not at sentencing - now they need to create a holistic portrait of Dean the Man - so anything that offers context is in. And Dean is providing it. I'm really surprised by Dean's self-destructive antics after the convictions. Pre-convictions he did a little routine after he got out on bail, rushing around, engaging in a bunch of hyperbole on Facebook and a few Internet Truth Radio shows, but when you look at it, it's just the usual Dean content-free posturing and ramblings. Viewed through a judicial lens it is not beneficial, but it's also not harmful. There is no evidence of a breach of his release conditions, so I'll assume there wasn't one. Up to the point of his conviction he has a legal right to take the position he is innocent, has done nothing wrong, and that choice, no matter how absurd, is one he can take without negative consequences. Pleading 'not guilty' is not an aggravating circumstance.

But now he has been found guilty, and everything he does in the next five months is potential fodder for aggravating his sentence. And he is setting himself up.

Criminal Code, s 718 sets the basic principles for sentencing an offender. There's a bunch of criteria that a court is supposed to balance - lengthening or shortening the sentence to account for the individual characteristics of the offender and offense scenario. One of the mandatory criteria is "denunciation and deterrence", a nice way of saying that when someone engages in criminal activity we put them in jail and otherwise make life unpleasant for them so that other people don't do the same thing. Deterrence comes in two forms - specific and general. Specific means the punishment is intended to convince the offender, Dean, to not be a shithead in the future. General deterrence operates to convince Dean's buddies that they too do not want to meet the same fate as Dean.

Now that he is convicted, Dean could, conceivably, minimize his sentence by saying he was wrong, he now understands the law better, he challenged the courts and - fair and square - he lost. He will change his ways, suggest to others that they too change their ways, and that is a reason why he does not need to spend quite as long in a metal box as he otherwise might. These would be mitigating circumstances, and it's amazing how much weight the courts will give someone who sees the light and turns over the proverbial new leaf.

Dean didn't do that. Instead he continued to rant that he not only should have won, but DID win! His guilty verdicts will simply mean the government will have to pay more when Dean's mysterious legal win occurs in Federal Court. Comments like this, from his FaceBook page, will not help him at sentencing;

Dean Clifford
Until I go to Fed Court with my own claim asap now that I have a proper cause of action and get a pending litigation order for criminal trespass. I'm on this shit, no worries.
June 23 at 2:18pm

Or this;

Dean Clifford
They don't "Get to" put me in jail, they do it contrary to law. You don't "get to" rape someone because you can hold them down and pry their legs apart, you do it contrary to their right to not be raped. You don't "get to" kill people by putting a bullet in their heads, you do that contrary to their rights and the law.
June 23 at 4:23pm

Or these jems;

Dean Clifford
Oh well, short of creating my own army and going to war, I'll try the peaceful approach and give it my best. At the very least I will prove the courts to be useless and ineffectual, which is a victory of its own. I know they are corrupt and useless, and proving it will be a victory for me, and a motivator for people to leave the current system. You have a better option? I'm all ears.
June 23 at 2:56pm

Dean Clifford
Plea deal? Deal for what? Void any tort claim I have by negotiating with someone who has no standing in the first place? No fucking likely. That's why we're in this mess. Throw away a year or two? How about throw away my life by giving in to these pieces if shit and making a worse problem for the next generation and my kids. Id rather fucking die than give their system any more life.
June 23 at 3:45pm

Dean Clifford
"But you could have proven the courts are useless by running a search on Canlii. Couldn't you have tried for a plea deal or something to avoid jailtime at the trial?"

What the hell does a search on canlii prove? Case law is a myth. Plea to who? Pleading is begging for something, who the fuck am I going to beg from? Who the fuck are these people?? Some asshole I've never met in a black robe? What in the fuck would I possible want from such an individual, other than for him to take a flying leap off a cliff? What "we" already know? What do "we" and then 7 billion other retards already know?
June 23 at 3:49pm

Dean Clifford
Jail time? jail time for what? Do people not understand what in the fuck guilty of the facts means? If I was going back to jail and that was a real court with REAL jurisdiction then I would BE IN JAIL RIGHT NOW, not going back for an unknown hearing 4.5 months from now. Does that even make sense!?!?!?
June 23 at 3:52pm

Dean Clifford
Something is not connecting for James. He's in a closed feedback loop. I don't need to convince anyone of anything, the law is the law, and codes are not laws, and no judge has found me guilty of anything. People will believe anything. I saw a movie once, the moon blew up.....but I looked outside and was still there in tthe night sky. Why do people confuse unreality for reality?
June 23 at 4:26pm

Is Dean telling others to not make his mistake? No - he's actively doing the opposite, encouraging others to follow in his footsteps, and perhaps even setting up new organizations/schemes to promote further antigovernment/illegal activity. Such as this very recent exchange where Dean gives his followers advice about setting up their own common law courts;

Tim Ramsay
Does anyone here want to help do a counter complaint challenging (statutory) jurisdiction in a common law court of record? A friend of mine was arrested for failure to produce ID.
Dean says we learn by teaching and that's why I'm helping my friend andso that I can learn how to be free too.

Has anyone here done this before who might like to be involved by sharing what you know about the subject and especially by helping with the paperwork?
July 4 at 9:57pm

Dean Clifford
Where you want to hold the court?
July 4 at 10:33pm

Tim Ramsay
The arrest was made in Atlanta GA, so I assume the counter complaint will need to be filed in the same municipal case.
July 4 at 10:36pm

Dean Clifford
No. That case only recognizes the jurisdiction it was initiated in. You need to file a whole new claim in the proper jurisdiction, common law, and have that matter brought into THAT jurisdiction, your jurisdiction, because they trespassed in your jurisdiction, they pissed in your pool, and they answer to you.
July 4 at 10:41pm

Dwaine Carrillo
No 'counter complaint', as no one wants to hear you 'complain', and entering 'complaints' into THEIR case only gives their silly 'complaint' legitimacy. Dean is correct: You must file your own separate CLAIM and drag him in as a defendant in YOUR court
July 4 at 10:45pm

Dean Clifford
Yeah, you owe them no excuses nor any argument. You don't answer to their shit, no controversy of any kind. They brought a complaint against you, so fucking what? What's it to them? They will lie through their teeth to you to make (you) believe there is a real court. There isn't, it's make believe, there is no claim. Arguing creates a controversy and those tribunals only have authority to settle controversy. "Yeah, let's pretend I did do that, what the fuck is it to you? Mind your own fucking business, because MY business is none of YO business."
July 4 at 10:51pm

Dwaine Carrillo
There is a reason they call it a criminal 'complaint': They are only 'complaining'; they have no actual CLAIM, that is why they filed a silly fucking 'complaint'

If they can get you to acknowledge their complaint as anything legitimate by filing paperwork back into THEIR complaint, they now have joinder, and they will take their silly complaint and run with it like an actual claim, and now you become a defendant, and the STATE becomes an injured party.

You must counter their silly complaint with an actual CLAIM, and your claim ALWAYS supersedes a complaint, as court is no place to listen to men complain about what another man is doing - it is a place for man to settle claims against another man

Tim Ramsay
Okay, new claim not counter complaint but am I wrong to understand my beef is not with the jurisdiction of the court but rather I just need to explain to the court that the prosecutor has no jurisdiction because I never contracted with him or whomever he represents?
July 4 at 10:59pm

Dwaine Carrillo
As Dean says: The court DOES have jurisdiction, it is a court after all. Don't fight jurisdiction, just file your own separate claim.
July 4 at 11:00pm

Tim Ramsay
I thought Dean said the law of the case was statutory because it was filed under statutory jurisdiction. If the law of the case is statutory, then what does the court have beyond that? I thought the court could only operate in the jurisdiction of the case.
July 4 at 11:03pm

Dwaine Carrillo
I'll let Dean answer you.
July 4 at 11:05pm

Dean Clifford
What court? A complaint under a statute? YOU CAN'T HEAR THAT. Ready...... Mr. So and so....you've been charged with having nipples, how do you plead? "What in the fuck are you talking about? I CAN'T HEAR YOU, YOU ARE BABBLING ABSOLUTE FUCKING GIBBERISH, WHAT THE FUCK IS THE CLAIM? I CAN ONLY HEAR A CLAIM, I CAN'T HEAR STATUTORY GIBBERISH, I DON'T SPEAK THAT GARBAGE. STATE.......YOUR.......FUCKING. .....CLAIM.

Dean Clifford
Answering to their shit = giving it life and the tribunal jurisdiction.
July 4 at 11:12pm

Raewyne Lamb Now that's an answer haha
July 4 at 11:18pm

Dean Clifford
Also, you are correct, it operates ONLY in that jurisdiction, which means they cannot hear anything you say to claim they have no jurisdiction. Chewbacca cannot be heard at Hogwarts. Use the Chewbacca defense, seriously, you'll get further with that in that jurisdiction than claiming your rights as a man.
July 4 at 11:20pm

Alex Rider
Nothing like a good "Chewy defence".

There are few better ways to 'aggravate' a sentence than what Dean has been doing. If the Crown and RCMP are monitoring, and I'd bet that they are, they have accumulated a stack of data to show not only does Dean need specific deterrence, but he is the leader of a bunch of people who very much would benefit from an object lesson.

This is extremely foolish behavior. All Dean needed to do was shut up during the five month window. After his sentence and near certain incarceration he can do or say whatever he wants - his risk from this set of offenses will be spent. So far no one from the OPCA community seems to have sat in on Dean's proceedings - and presumably nobody will do so at sentencing. He can play disinformation games, minimize his consequences, and still maintain his Muscular Freeman Posture in public. But, for whatever reason, he's didn't do that. He's setting himself up for a yet mightier fall - and providing the Crown with the evidence to do it.

Dean is pretty competent at compartmentalizing parts of his life - skinhead vs freedom-man - licensed taxpayer vs Dean Who Does Not Consent - (semi organized) criminal vs Freeman Saint. But why doesn't he now duck for cover for a little while, so that he can minimize his downstream consequences? The only thing I can imagine is that he is so engrossed in own posturing that he is utterly unaware of how he is condemning himself for an extended sentence.

[pigpot]

There's total radio silence.

Yes I notice the same.

Dean claims to be preparing a federal lawsuit to get restitution for the 16 months in jail. My current hypothesis is that he's doing so under the advice of Karl Lentz

If he is I don't know why he's using Karl Lentz. Karl has never shown ANY proof of success that I have seen. Okay for the restitution thing but why Karl?

, should get confirmation of that if he files it and we get a copy of it.

Okay. Fact.

Dean's parole officer has to prepare a pre-sentencing report before the November sentencing.

Agreed. Fact. He is now in "their" system.

So what is probably happening behind the scenes is Dean is playing by the rules and sucking up to the parole officer so the report recommends a very light sentence.

Hazy, murky at best. I'm sure that your points may come from your previous experience but is it not better to deal with what we know, not the probably stuff. Your call.

However, the conspicuous presence of gardening supplies in the last Dean video suggests Dean may be going back to selling weed, which might be hard to keep hidden from your parole officer.

"Maybe". Maybe he likes to plant daffodils as well. We'll see as time pans out.

Cheers for the update "Jeffrey".

I've been given the NOTICE to be able to change my post (which is good) but I'll post it anyway and then respond to parts of your last post.

[Jeffrey]

Okay for the restitution thing but why Karl?

Karl's the hot new thing on the scene right now, flavor of the month. Dean has a history of shopping around for Guru's. Remember while in jail he moved from hitting up Kevin Annette for help to David K. Lindsay, tried some Winston Shrout too. Lentz is the next logical choice.

[pigpot]

Dean CliffordWhat the hell does a search on canlii prove? Case law is a myth. Plea to who? Pleading is begging for something, who the fuck am I going to beg from? Who the fuck are these people?? Some asshole I've never met in a black robe? What in the fuck would I possible want from such an individual, other than for him to take a flying leap off a cliff? What "we" already know? What do "we" and then 7 billion other retards already know?
June 23 at 3:49pm

I'm not sure case law is a myth but it doesn't PROVE anything. Their is no EVIDENCE to back it up that it stands for or against anything. In the main it is the words of one man or woman (notionally called a "Judge") that surmise the position they BELIEVE another to be in. It's most certainly not dealing in FACTS. Sometimes at best merely opinions.

Dean Clifford
Jail time? jail time for what? Do people not understand what in the fuck guilty of the facts means? If I was going back to jail and that was a real court with REAL jurisdiction then I would BE IN JAIL RIGHT NOW, not going back for an unknown hearing 4.5 months from now. Does that even make sense!?!?!?
June 23 at 3:52pm

I can only point to anothers approach to jurisdiction. Now please don't vilify me for doing so AND MOST IMPORTANTLY I DO NOT SPEAK FOR MARC, ONLY MYSELF. I myself would point to the issue of where is the evidence that jurisdiction applies because of being geographically located in the land COMMONLY known as "XYZ"? Now, this is not a rhetorical question and I ask it in all honesty as no-one has ever answered that question to me. I seriously would like to know the answer. Certainly not without harm, loss or injury can I see any element of jurisdiction being applicable just because someone is somewhere. Point me to the facts of the matter please. Cheers.

Dean Clifford
Something is not connecting for James. He's in a closed feedback loop. I don't need to convince anyone of anything, the law is the law, and codes are not laws, and no judge has found me guilty of anything. People will believe anything. I saw a movie once, the moon blew up.....but I looked outside and was still there in tthe night sky. Why do people confuse unreality for reality?
June 23 at 4:26pm

In all honesty I think Dean is mistaken on this part as I have changed my own thoughts upon this matter over time. Dean is claiming some laws don't apply but others do. If he took the stance of LAWS DON'T apply per se, he may be in a better position entirely and could argue jurisdiction more than he does. At the end of the day Karl Lentz's approach may work but it also may not. It may make sense to Dean, but not to his captors.

Is Dean telling others to not make his mistake? No - he's actively doing the opposite, encouraging others to follow in his footsteps, and perhaps even setting up new organizations/schemes to promote further antigovernment/illegal activity. Such as this very recent exchange where Dean gives his followers advice about setting up their own common law courts;

I'm not sure he is. You'll get suck up's like someone here who I won't mention who want to take Dean apart but I've never met the man and don't claim to have any knowledge of the man. Somebody has asked the question

"Is Dean telling others to not make his mistake?"

and given THEIR answer to THEIR question. Is setting up anti-government the same as the Canadian "5th Amendment". No it's called freedom of speech. It's in the Bill Of Rights I guess.

Also this idea of Dean and his "followers" is trumped up. He may have a a few acquaintances and even less friends at best but to set him up as the new combination of Butch Cassidy AND the Sun Dance kid (together) is way out of proportion. For heavens sakes, he lives in Manitoba. Manitoba's NOT where sedition is taking place.

Tim Ramsay
Does anyone here want to help do a counter complaint challenging (statutory) jurisdiction in a common law court of record? A friend of mine was arrested for failure to produce ID.
Dean says we learn by teaching and that's why I'm helping my friend andso that I can learn how to be free too.

Has anyone here done this before who might like to be involved by sharing what you know about the subject and especially by helping with the paperwork?
July 4 at 9:57pm

Nothing wrong with that. Challenging Statutes and all. That's like calling the teacher out when you KNOW they've lied or made a mistake.

Dean Clifford
Where you want to hold the court?
July 4 at 10:33pm

Tim Ramsay
The arrest was made in Atlanta GA, so I assume the counter complaint will need to be filed in the same municipal case.
July 4 at 10:36pm

What does it matter if the "Court" has no jurisdiction. The VERY THING Dean isn't challenging. If he's not challenging the jurisdiction then everything else is a matter of applicability and thus it applies as it hasn't been challenged and disproved.

Dean Clifford
No. That case only recognizes the jurisdiction it was initiated in. You need to file a whole new claim in the proper jurisdiction, common law, and have that matter brought into THAT jurisdiction, your jurisdiction, because they trespassed in your jurisdiction, they pissed in your pool, and they answer to you.
July 4 at 10:41pm

Dwaine Carrillo
No 'counter complaint', as no one wants to hear you 'complain', and entering 'complaints' into THEIR case only gives their silly 'complaint' legitimacy. Dean is correct: You must file your own separate CLAIM and drag him in as a defendant in YOUR court
July 4 at 10:45pm

See above.

Dean Clifford
Yeah, you owe them no excuses nor any argument. You don't answer to their shit, no controversy of any kind. They brought a complaint against you, so fucking what? What's it to them? They will lie through their teeth to you to make (you) believe there is a real court. There isn't, it's make believe, there is no claim. Arguing creates a controversy and those tribunals only have authority to settle controversy. "Yeah, let's pretend I did do that, what the fuck is it to you? Mind your own fucking business, because MY business is none of YO business."
July 4 at 10:51pm

Again the issue of jurisdiction has NOT been challenged concerning the matter of WHO'S business it ALL is.

Dwaine Carrillo
There is a reason they call it a criminal 'complaint': They are only 'complaining'; they have no actual CLAIM, that is why they filed a silly fucking 'complaint'

Problem here is that the complaint when held up becomes proven. Mincing with words here is not helping him. The jurisdiction of the complaining party and those that wish to uphold the complaint, in this case "Regina" must show their jurisdiction else the FACTS of the matter are not established. Without establishment nothing can proceed as it is merely no more than a farce. A "kangaroo Court". Call it what you will.

If they can get you to acknowledge their complaint as anything legitimate by filing paperwork back into THEIR complaint, they now have joinder, and they will take their silly complaint and run with it like an actual claim, and now you become a defendant, and the STATE becomes an injured party.

Maybe true.

You must counter their silly complaint with an actual CLAIM, and your claim ALWAYS supersedes a complaint, as court is no place to listen to men complain about what another man is doing - it is a place for man to settle claims against another man

That maybe what Dean thinks. In fact he is operating or being in another "realm" (as that what legalities are and I mean this in a meta-physical sense). It's not his. And still he is not challenging the jurisdiction of the said "realm".

Tim Ramsay
Okay, new claim not counter complaint but am I wrong to understand my beef is not with the jurisdiction of the court but rather I just need to explain to the court that the prosecutor has no jurisdiction because I never contracted with him or whomever he represents?
July 4 at 10:59pm

I've just read it as I've posted chronologically and there you go, he almost got it and then lost it. Holy crap.

Dwaine Carrillo
As Dean says: The court DOES have jurisdiction, it is a court after all. Don't fight jurisdiction, just file your own separate claim.
July 4 at 11:00pm

Hahahahahahaha............ Is that not what I just typed above. AALLLL ALLLONGGGGG! Priceless. Cheers Burnaby. Maybe he really should look at other forums that concern themselves with jurisdiction. Oh! And junky boy, remember when you labelled me that, if you have had the ability to read this far in a fortnight my suggestion is to grow the hell up. World Freeman Society is a joke. A massive fraud perpetuated by Patrick and his like over there. Sorry... all five members over there. To those of good nature over there, this shot across the bow is not intended for you. You know who this is targeted at.

Tim Ramsay
I thought Dean said the law of the case was statutory because it was filed under statutory jurisdiction. If the law of the case is statutory, then what does the court have beyond that? I thought the court could only operate in the jurisdiction of the case.
July 4 at 11:03pm

Dwaine Carrillo
I'll let Dean answer you.
July 4 at 11:05pm

What was that word again. Oh! That's right... JURISDICTION.

Dean Clifford
What court? A complaint under a statute? YOU CAN'T HEAR THAT. Ready...... Mr. So and so....you've been charged with having nipples, how do you plead? "What in the fuck are you talking about? I CAN'T HEAR YOU, YOU ARE BABBLING ABSOLUTE FUCKING GIBBERISH, WHAT THE FUCK IS THE CLAIM? I CAN ONLY HEAR A CLAIM, I CAN'T HEAR STATUTORY GIBBERISH, I DON'T SPEAK THAT GARBAGE. STATE.......YOUR.......FUCKING. .....CLAIM.

Dean Clifford
Answering to their shit = giving it life and the tribunal jurisdiction.
July 4 at 11:12pm

And not answering it is acquiescence. Agreement. Challenge the JURISDICTION Dean eh!

Raewyne Lamb Now that's an answer haha
July 4 at 11:18pm

Dean Clifford
Also, you are correct, it operates ONLY in that jurisdiction, which means they cannot hear anything you say to claim they have no jurisdiction. Chewbacca cannot be heard at Hogwarts. Use the Chewbacca defense, seriously, you'll get further with that in that jurisdiction than claiming your rights as a man.
July 4 at 11:20pm

Pardon me. I'm getting worn out responding to the nonsense typed in these quotes.

Alex Rider
Nothing like a good "Chewy defence".

There are few better ways to 'aggravate' a sentence than what Dean has been doing. If the Crown and RCMP are monitoring, and I'd bet that they are, they have accumulated a stack of data to show not only does Dean need specific deterrence, but he is the leader of a bunch of people who very much would benefit from an object lesson.

Nah! That's way over the top. Dean's no leader of anything so let's stop trying to make out he's something of a target for the fictitious Regina Crown rubbish. He comes across as a man who want's to be left alone. Leave him alone then.

This is extremely foolish behavior. All Dean needed to do was shut up during the five month window. After his sentence and near certain incarceration he can do or say whatever he wants - his risk from this set of offenses will be spent. So far no one from the OPCA community seems to have sat in on Dean's proceedings - and presumably nobody will do so at sentencing. He can play disinformation games, minimize his consequences, and still maintain his Muscular Freeman Posture in public. But, for whatever reason, he's didn't do that. He's setting himself up for a yet mightier fall - and providing the Crown with the evidence to do it.

Noooooooo... Not OPCA. The "thing" with no standing. Puuhleez... Again for OPCA, see JURISDICTION. "Justice Rooke" COME ON MAN!

Dean is pretty competent at compartmentalizing parts of his life - skinhead vs freedom-man - licensed taxpayer vs Dean Who Does Not Consent - (semi organized) criminal vs Freeman Saint. But why doesn't he now duck for cover for a little while, so that he can minimize his downstream consequences? The only thing I can imagine is that he is so engrossed in own posturing that he is utterly unaware of how he is condemning himself for an extended sentence.

I don't imagine anything. If you want to know about Dean... ask Dean.

That took some time...

[wserra]

Noooooooo... Not OPCA. The "thing" with no standing. Puuhleez... :naughty: Again for OPCA, see JURISDICTION. "Justice Rooke" COME ON MAN!

Come again, please?

[pigpot]

Noooooooo... Not OPCA. The "thing" with no standing. Puuhleez... Again for OPCA, see JURISDICTION. "Justice Rooke" COME ON MAN!

Come again, please?

Not sure what you mean. "Wes" I take it. Apologies if I've got the wrong "person". How's things? I'm good thanks for asking. Clarification might help me somewhat.

[wserra]

Clarification: I have no idea what the part of your post I quoted means.

"Wes" is fine.