Eamonn O Brien - Ireland's Own Tenderizer

[Burnaby49]

For those of you not familiar with the Tenderizers that is the whimsical term I've given to the adulating followers of Scott Duncan over at Tender For Law;

https://www.facebook.com/groups/tenderforlaw/

Scott's a demanding potentate, follow his dictates unthinkingly or you're cast into outer darkness. We have a discussion on Tender For Law here;

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=9968

Up until now a Canadian phenomenon as far as I'm aware. And eastern Canada at that, centered around Toronto, Duncan's home town. He's not a significant guru, even in Canada.

Apart from "Scott is god" (although he really, really hates religion), and "everybody but Scott is wrong about everything" I've not paid much attention to his beliefs and theories. Since Scott has little influence outside of his own mind I report on the Tenderizers in Quatloos more for amusement than for any useful purpose it may serve.

However I have to give credit where credit is due. He's influenced somebody over in the Auld Sod, Eamonn from Drogheda. While the first few postings in this discussion are from last year the rest are from a few hours ago.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/tenderf ... 366632598/

October 15, 2014

EAMONN O BRIEN has received a summons regarding this...
Last I heard about it was in July when I sent the accepted letter which I authorised for process.... I had sent a notice of mistake in response to their first letter to which they acknowledged their receipt of...
They did not reply disputing that course of action at all but have now issued a summons regarding it...
Should I file a brief affidavit with copies of these with the court showing how I dealt with it along with another notice of mistake...?

These documents tell his tale of woe;







He clearly has the law on his side;

Eamonn O Brien
So they acknowledged receipt of the notice of mistake. They didn't rebut my position. I authorised the discharge and now they've issued a summons.

Are they playing dumb as regards to not presenting it to central bank?

Should I get an affidavit together along with the other documents? Either way the court date is set so I think filing with the clerk wouldn't hurt...
October 15, 2014 at 5:17pm ·

Of course Scott has disasterous advice for him. He's here to serve!

Scott Duncan
Then it's ACCEPTED. It is a FACT IN LAW now.

Henceforth, anything they do is FRAUD from this point.
13 hrs

More blind leading the blind advice from another tenderizer;

David-Paul Sip "Henceforth, anything they do is FRAUD from this point." <<<THIS Eamonn. It seems that anything that occured after this FACT IN LAW was established, even court, was a fraud.
11 hrs

But, even with help from these giants Eamonn despairs;

Eamonn O Brien
There's no law in this country David... I've no way of enforcing my position/facts...
11 hrs ·

Scott Duncan
SO SEIZE THE EQUITY! LIEN IT!
11 hrs

Huh?

Eamonn O Brien
Lien the bill of exchange? Or the warrant?
11 hrs

Scott says; who cares?

Scott Duncan
It's all the same ACCOUNT (as in ACCOUNTING and SURETY)
10 hrs ·

Chris Evan
I think the only way to to enforce anything, especially fraud, is lien the fuck out of any fraudulent account!
10 hrs ·

Eamonn has a brief passing moment of clarity;

Eamonn O Brien
Im just picturing them knocking on my door to arrest me and telling them they can't cos there's a lien on the account... They'll prob just laugh and arrest me anyway...
10 hrs

The advice gets even less helpful;

Jesse Paul
You do understand that FRAUD is FRAUD no matter who's committing it???
10 hrs

David-Paul Sip
What Jesse wrote. And should they come to arrest YOU then I would suggest that the body that they come to kidnap be prepared with a NOTICE OF MISTAKE
8 hrs

That's it, wave a Notice of Mistake in the arresting officer's faces! Eamonn gets querulous and considers just giving up;

Eamonn O Brien
The body they come to kidnap will probably hand over legal tender before then..
8 hrs ·

Then there are those pesky technicalities;

Anibal Jose Baez
Ok, Admiral Scott, I know a lien in commerce puts you first in line. Seizing the equity. I see the big picture, surety and accounting, but someone like me is missing all the technical aspects of how to properly navigate in commerce to accomplish this.

What does one do to place a lien? What is necessary? What papers, and how to fill out the paperwork with out screwing something up? If I do not know any of this, do I have even any business attempting something this? unsure emoticon Where can I go to learn what to do?

I have some answers, but not all. And I do think I must not attempt to do anything I do not fully understand.
8 hrs

For those of you not in the know Scott claims to be an Admiral with his own fleet. I call it the bathtub brigade.

Eamonn readily admits his ignorance of the process;

Eamonn O Brien
I know nothing about where or how to register a lien in Ireland... I'd probably need to ask a solicitor...
8 hrs

·

I somehow doubt that he'll find a solicitor willing to give advice on how to lien the personal property and homes of police officers, judges and court officials. That kind of thing tends to rebound on you.

Then they start letting their hair down. Admissions of failures;

Eamonn O Brien
They don't answer questions... They do whatever they want anyway... They ignore you... "What are you gonna do about it"
8 hrs

Anibal Jose Baez
So far, that has been my experience as well.

Chris Evan
Yes. That's been my experience too unfortunately.
8 hrs ·

But if they have one belief it is that Scott can guide them to the promised land of unpaid fines and free stuff;

Chris Evan
They seem to be just taking what they want...However, I trust the Admiral is right, now I've been verifying.
8 hrs ·

Anibal Jose Baez
Chris Evan, I have read about the UCC-1 financial statement (but still not comprehend). I went to the office (that you linked), and got the form. They adviced for a lawyer, and/or accountant to fill the form. I have read things like "security agreement" in the Internet. Other than that, I am missing everything. This is all hear say stuff.

For example, I understand the Notice of Mistake, WHY it works, HOW to do it, and how to stand in the questions asked. But for the lien I am missing all that. Is like having the printed Notice of Mistake (UCC-1), but having no clue why it works, and how to proceed.

Where can I go learn, when the government is not going to answer, other that "get a lawyer"? That is why I asked the question to Admiral Scott Duncan.

Chris Evan
Maybe we should discuss it box by box while the Admiral watches. grin emoticon we can get all the stupid out at once.

Get all the stupid out at once? No need to make a special effort Chris, you're all doing a grand job right now. Anibal seems to agree with me on that one;

Anibal Jose Baez
Why would I want to talk about something I know nothing about? And why would anyone that does not know, even say something? Exactly, it sounds like a stupid plan.

And that is where things stand at the moment. But I expect great things from Eamonn. With Scott's advice and lots of help from the Tenderizers he can easily turn an 80 Euro fine into a jail term. I'll try and remember to stay tuned. But there is so much stupidity for me to follow and so little time in the day. So, so much stupidity . . . .

[noblepa]

I'm curious to know what office in Ireland would carry forms relating to a US law. Its not even a federal law. It is fifty state laws (plus a few territories, I think), all passed as nearly identical versions of a model law, proposed by legal groups, to bring uniformity to business dealings throughout the US.

Besides, IANAL, but I did have a course or two in Business Law in college, which naturally dealt with the UCC. I don't remember that there were any "forms" associated with the statute. It was just a collection of statutory provisions, mostly governing contracts and payments.

[Burnaby49]

Things are taking a violent turn over at Tender for Law. The Tenderizer gang are now advising our Irish idiot to get a gun and start killing people!

Chris Evan
see, "pick up a gun" is the appropriate advice (not legal advice). Scotts been saying this for years now.....

Refusal of the Sole Authorized Administrators offer is discharge of the obligation, legally...we know this. But then they send an army after you. There is really only one way to end it

.

Chris Evan
A few dead Justice's and Lawyers will start to turn the tide for sure. Or maybe their children turning up dead will show them. Scott has been very clear on a very personal (used commonly) level....

Scott Duncan
And THAT is why it's OK to kill them.
2 hrs · Like · 5

Keep in mind that this started as an 80 Euro ($113 Canadian) fine for a speeding ticket. Eamonn, acting on the tenderizer's advice, has upped that to 250 euros and an arrest warrant to served next week if he doesn't pay.

Eamonn O Brien Chris, the court has drawn up a warrant and the guards have sent a notice that this is the case, giving me a further 7 days to pay or be arrested...
7 hrs · Like

While Eamonn obviously isn't firing on all cylinders comments like this make me wonder if he has any sense at all;

Eamonn O Brien
Chris - "Public notice of a private claim"

Would publishing the fact that there's a lien in a local newspaper suffice? I can't find anything on it in Ireland...

"Take notice, there is a lien to the value of €5000 on District Court warrant number xxxxxxx"

And the advice he's getting is equally senseless;

Chris Evan
^^^ yes. You have 2 options. You either fight or you don't. If I have to fight again, the first I would do would be to secure costs. grin emoticon That is if I am before these clowns and they arbitrarily grant personhood to the government. OR if they arbitrarily refuse a method of discharge.

Eamonn says he can't fight the police off if they come as a mob but Pete has the answer to that;

Pete Daoust
Hey, you three of them, I have sent LEGAL MONEY to discharge that debt, I really did, here's the proof (you show them the proof)

But hey, if they REFUSE that, just give me back that LEGAL MONEY they received, and I WILL PAY.

If you keep that LEGAL MONEY, and forces me to PAY again, you are not better than any criminal organization.....

Quatloos once had a discussion asking participants why they joined. I said because I was fscinated how someone could have a very minor issue, like a ticket for a broken tail light, and turn it into a jail term. It looks like we are seeing that process in action.

[NYGman]

What ever happened to paying it, then disputing it? Would it not save them some money, to go ahead and pay the disputed charge, then sue using their bulletproof theories, to get a refund, and damages on top? This way, they could not only recover what they owe, but receive more back, due to the illegal actions of the government?

If you have a valid legal claim, where you believe a fine/fee/tax should not be imposed, paying it, does not admit anything, it just satisfies the existing interpretation of the law. You can still go to court and challenge the law, seeking a refund, costs, damages actual and punitive.

[Burnaby49]

What ever happened to paying it, then disputing it? Would it not save them some money, to go ahead and pay the disputed charge, then sue using their bulletproof theories, to get a refund, and damages on top? This way, they could not only recover what they owe, but receive more back, due to the illegal actions of the government?

If you have a valid legal claim, where you believe a fine/fee/tax should not be imposed, paying it, does not admit anything, it just satisfies the existing interpretation of the law. You can still go to court and challenge the law, seeking a refund, costs, damages actual and punitive.

He did pay it! He sent them a Bill of Exchange, a magic document that eliminated the debt. But the bastards won't settle for a piece of paper with his name on it, they want cash.

Let the man himself explain the process;

Eamonn O Brien
Yesterday at 5:59am
People may or may not remember my court appearance last December over a speeding fine. I argued with the man in the robe and eventually left the court after responding to being called "YOU" a few times...

The court then issued a fine for x amount. I ignored their letters until a collection company then started issuing letters. I replied to them with a notice of mistake. They replied with a stock response so I sent another letter outlining my questions again and telling them I... simply wanted some clarification regarding the matter.

I also added that if they didn't respond within 5 days legal accord & satisfaction would be established.

They didn't respond so I sent a final notice notifying them that legal accord and satisfaction had been established and that the matter was considered closed.

Today a warrant was received issued by the court for the amount.

Have I no choice but to pay this to avoid prison (probably in the front door and out the back) or is the fact that I asked questions and received no response grounds for me to object to the warrant?

[eric]

Let the man himself explain the process;

Eamonn O Brien
Have I no choice but to pay this to avoid prison (probably in the front door and out the back) or is the fact that I asked questions and received no response grounds for me to object to the warrant?

I usually avoid Tender For Law simply because it's just too punishing to read their mindless drivel, although I have noted that some Quatloosians, myself included, have become deserving of special mention over there. I did a quick scan of the Irish prison system for non-payment of fines and he would probably be in and out the same day as he stated.
http://www.thejournal.ie/how-many-peopl ... 9-Mar2015/
I did check out the actual legislation however and he may end up spending 5 days in the crowbar hotel.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2014/en/ ... index.html
Since the new legislation allows payment of fines by installments, garnishee orders, or attachment of goods, if he does not go to jail I foresee this stretching out for months of further fodder for the Tenderizers as he attempts to fight the process.

[Jeffrey]

And THAT is why it's OK to kill them.

This is not the first time Duncan advocates for killing law enforcement officers.

[notorial dissent]

Quatloos once had a discussion asking participants why they joined. I said because I was fscinated how someone could have a very minor issue, like a ticket for a broken tail light, and turn it into a jail term. It looks like we are seeing that process in action.

Some things would seem to be universal or in this case national constants, and sheer unimpeachable incontrovertible stupidity would definitely seem to be one of them.

[ArthurWankspittle]

Quatloos once had a discussion asking participants why they joined. I said because I was fscinated how someone could have a very minor issue, like a ticket for a broken tail light, and turn it into a jail term. It looks like we are seeing that process in action.

I think Quatloos should have an award like the Darwin Awards. Something for turning a traffic fine of <100 local currency into a jail term. Like a LVP - least valuable player or a Quatloser.

[Llwellyn]

Most Amusing Person PERSON on Quatloos - the MAPQ award!

[Burnaby49]

Anibal tries to introduce some common-sense into the discussion;

Anibal Jose Baez
I have a few things in mind, but if at this point you do not know what is happening, maybe it's better you "pay", and learn before you do anything. In the meantime, stop breaking the traffic codes, that definitively helps!
July 15 at 6:31am · Like

Anibal Jose Baez
That is why I say, from the looks, that "YOU" have been deemed to be surety, and owe that debt. "YOU" will go to jail if do not "pay" soon. Maybe it's better to "pay" and re-group. It's a fucking traffic ticket, it's not a criminal matter!
July 15 at 6:52am · Like · 1

Anibal Jose Baez
Why let it turn into a criminal matter, when you know it's not necessary? Hey, maybe I am wrong, but that's just me.
July 15 at 6:54am · Edited · Like

But Eamonn's not in a listening mood;

Eamonn O Brien I'll send a letter tomorrow demanding the return of the completed bill of exchange...
July 15 at 7:04am · Like

Anibal tries pissing in the wind yet again;

Anibal Jose Baez
Ok Eamonn, let's assume Pete is "legally" correct, and that perhaps you may deal with it in other ways other than "paying." In the meantime the "legal" bureaucracy issues an arrest warrant for EAMONN O BRIEN, which has already APPEARED, and IDENTIFIED as such in the public record. Are you willing to risk a kidnapping/arrest while the "legal" benevolent bureaucracy honors your bill of exchange?

I am just curious onto why folks can go over such extreme risk, just for a traffic ticket.

Me too, Anibal, me too. But Eamonn's not fighting for principle, he's fighting for cash;

Eamonn O Brien
It's not the fact that it's "just a traffic ticket", it's 250€ that could be spent on somethin worth a fuck...

Well perhaps you could have paid it when it was 80€ or, better yet, stop breaking traffic laws.

Anibal gives it another try;

Anibal Jose Baez
But you did sign the drivers license, and you did commit the "offense." unsure emoticon Then you went to court, and answered to "YOU." Then ignored all letters from the court, then it went in to collections. You sent a bill of exchange, but did not follow thru. Now they are about to issue an arrest warrant if someone does not settle the accounting.

Pete Daoust is correct that you must demand the money you sent them, if they refused it. If you have send payment, they either can accept it, or refuse it. And you must always say you want to pay. Pete is correct.

My concern goes more with the corruption of the courts, and the fact they are not following their own laws. The "truth" does not matter in those places.

What if while you are asking for the bill of exchange (however long it takes) an arrest warrant is issued, and you get kidnapped? You will still be "right," but with a record, and in jail. How will that impact your life? Worth 250€?

Now, maybe you may conditionally send payment and settle the bill, conditioned that, if the money sent was refused it must be sent back. If they do not sent back the bill of exchange in certain amount of time, then you will bill them for the 250€. That way you avoid possible jail time, while still reserving the right to collect for a fraudulent debt paid.

If I am wrong, please someone come tell me. I am just astound at the amount of stress, and danger some folks will go for petty things, like traffic tickets. It hurts to see folks go to jail for 250€, that haven't even committed a real crime.

But our fool isn't listening. He's picked his beach to die on;

Eamonn O Brien
The completed bill was for the original 80€ fine. The 250€ was charged for non payment of the original fine... I didn't argue that in court I just repeatedly told them I was not EAMONN O BRIEN.

Anibal, when a letter is sent seeking money from me where no injured party exists, whether it be 1 Euro or 1 million, I will fight it. Fuck them...
July 15 at 8:53am · Like · 5