Brown supporter (Kranish) says he isn't KRANISH

[Demosthenes]

Author Message Ahmed
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
Posts: 234
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:17 pm

News came on the "Browns Under Seige" show on Republic Broadcasting http://www.republicbroadcasting.org/ind ... d=archives

Shaun was arrested at 12:30 AM at his home on charges relating to an Illinois traffic violation. According to the report, Shaun is refusing to acknowledge the court's jurisdiction (this relates to the all caps-name thing that Ray has been writing about). So he is being kept in jail.

[ErsatzAnatchist]

I wonder how long his sovereign *ss will sit in jail along with his all caps *ss before he gets tired of this.

I can't decide if I admire his principles or pity his insanity.

[Dezcad]

Shaun's out. See his post below:

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:06 pm
I was released this morning. I had to sign FOR the defendant, although I'm not the defendant. So, as an authorized agent using an authorized signature, I signed for SHAUN A KRANISH

This was done under duress, however, because I normally would not have signed. I was told I would get 90 days in jail if I didn't "take the offer." I don't doubt that this was a possibility. I wasn't worried about the jail time at all, either, I'm totally ready. I had a good reason to get out today.

[Demosthenes]

More from Kranish.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:42 am

I don't actually live in Illinois, to be precise. My life isn't confined to physical matter either. My physical body lives inside its sovereign bubble, which happens to be surrounded by the "State of Illinois" at this time. It's also very near to Rockford, and Rockford usually winds up surrounding it each and every day.

I've been planning a change of surroundings for quite some time though! The longer I stay here, the more I feel my bubble is getting tainted by the outside world I need a bubble bath

[Agent Observer]

ErsatzAnatchist wrote:

I can't decide if I admire his principles or pity his insanity.

Perhaps Shaun's latest pontification will clarify that for you (My vote is for the latter) :

I don't actually live in Illinois, to be precise. My life isn't confined to physical matter either. My physical body lives inside its sovereign bubble, which happens to be surrounded by the "State of Illinois" at this time. It's also very near to Rockford, and Rockford usually winds up surrounding it each and every day.

I've been planning a change of surroundings for quite some time though! The longer I stay here, the more I feel my bubble is getting tainted by the outside world I need a bubble bath

[Dezcad]

More from Kranish.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:42 am

I don't actually live in Illinois, to be precise. My life isn't confined to physical matter either. My physical body lives inside its sovereign bubble, which happens to be surrounded by the "State of Illinois" at this time. It's also very near to Rockford, and Rockford usually winds up surrounding it each and every day.

I've been planning a change of surroundings for quite some time though! The longer I stay here, the more I feel my bubble is getting tainted by the outside world I need a bubble bath

Does Shaun also go by the handle "aksis"?

[Joey Smith]

"I wasn't worried about the jail time at all, either, I'm totally ready."

Translation: Being unemployed and dysfunctional, prison is as good a place as any other to sit around all day on my ass. Plus, they feed you.

[Demosthenes]

Illegal tender: Couple accused of using 'barter currency'

(Published Saturday, September 15, 2007 01:38:52 AM CST)
By Mike Heine/Gazette Staff

An Illinois couple arrested this spring may be the first to try and use a "private barter currency" in Walworth County, District Attorney Phil Koss said.

Shaun A. Kranish, 22, and Svetlana V. Dudnik, 24, both of Rockford, Ill., are accused of using and trying to use "Liberty Dollars" at three Walworth businesses.

The U.S. Mint says the currency is illegal to use, but its creators say it's OK if both parties agree.

Kranish and Dudnik recently posted their story a new local blog site, walworthcorruption.blogspot. com.

They claim they were harassed by police, booked into jail and thrust into the court system for doing nothing wrong.

On May 6, Kranish attempted to pay for his meal at the Dari-Ripple in Walworth with a $20 "fine silver Liberty Dollar." Shortly after he gave it to the clerk, a police officer arrived and started asking him questions.

"I tried to explain that it was not against the law, that I was offering silver for trade ..." a writer claiming to be Kranish wrote on the blog site.

Kranish and Dudnik-who now are married, according to the blog posting-were arrested and taken to jail.

Kranish is charged with four counts of party to misdemeanor theft by fraud, and Dudnik is charged with three counts of party to misdemeanor theft and one count of party to attempted misdemeanor theft.

Kranish also was arrested for carrying a concealed weapon. He had a .45 caliber handgun in a CD case in his car May 6, and he was wearing an empty holster, according to the criminal complaint.

Passing the buck

Walworth police had been tipped off about Liberty Dollars. They were notified of Liberty Dollars being used at the Walworth Landing gas station, Daniels Sentry and again at Dari-Ripple, all in late April, according to the complaint.

Dudnik told police she was with Kranish when he used the coins at the three locations, according to the complaint.

The cases are pending.

"I've spoken to many lawyers since this has happened, and they have all said the same thing-Walworth County, Wisconsin, is the most corrupt county in the state," Kranish wrote on his blog.

"They nail people, especially people from out of town or out of state. It's a huge racket, just like everywhere else. But in Walworth, they do whatever they want with impunity."

Kranish wondered why he couldn't get the silver pieces back from the stores and give them U.S. currency, as he had done before in Rockford, according to the posting.

Barter currency

Bernard von NotHaus, creator of the Liberty Dollar, argues the coins and paper currency are legal.

The company's Web site says the money can be used if both the seller and the buyer agree to use them as payment.

Von NotHaus even sued the federal government, claiming damage to his business from warning publicized by the U.S. Mint against using Liberty Dollars.

"The Liberty Dollar is a 'private voluntary barter' currency, which is not and has not been represented as 'legal tender,' 'coin' or 'current money' in the United States," according to the lawsuit.

The company, which says the currency is backed by silver and gold reserves, has "encouraged persons who utilize the barter currency to offer it to merchants as barter payment for goods and services but not as 'legal tender' or 'current money.'"

The company's Web site reminds users that Liberty Dollars are not U.S. currency, but it says to offer them "with the confidence that it will be accepted." It even gives a 12-step "how to use the Liberty Dollar" guide.

A spokesperson for the company did not reply to requests for interviews.

Is it legal?

Using Liberty Dollars as circulating currency could be a federal crime, according to the U.S. Mint. The federal government warned consumers and businesses last September that using the coins is a crime.

"They are not genuine United States Mint bullion coins and are not legal tender," according to warning on the Mint's Web site. "These medallions are privately produced products that are neither backed by, nor affiliated with, the United States government."

Kranish and Dudnik are facing charges in Walworth County because by using the coins they were "intentionally deceiving the persons with a false representation," according to the complaint.

After being told of the federal warning and U.S. Mint's stance, which is backed by the Department of Justice, Koss said the case theoretically could have gone to federal prosecutors.

The U.S. Mint says only the government may pass or create "any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metal, intended for use as current money."

The Mint also says the company is confusing consumers by saying Liberty Dollars are "legal" and "constitutional."

A spokeswoman from the U.S. Mint said she cannot comment about Liberty Dollars because of the lawsuit, but she said the situation was big enough that the Mint issued a rare consumer alert.

Rare here

The company says 100,000 Americans are circulating $20 million in Liberty Dollar currency. Few are around here.

Within a 50-mile radius of Janesville, only seven Wisconsin businesses and three in Illinois-none of which are retail outlets-are willing to accept the Liberty Dollar, according to the company's Web site.

Most of them also appear to be exchange outlets where people can turn in their Liberty Dollars for regular currency or vice versa.

[Imalawman]

Here's where I'm a bit confused. They charged him with theft by fraud. Ok, what he did was fraudulent, but if he gave value equal in FRNs to the goods he received, is it really theft? If nothing else the proprietor can sell the liberty dollar for the silver content alone and receive FRNs equal or greater in value to the goods he provided. So, where's the misappropriation or theft here? Don't get me wrong, he should be charged with something, like on federal charges of counterfeiting or something along those lines. Can someone explain it to me?

[Quixote]

Here's where I'm a bit confused. They charged him with theft by fraud. Ok, what he did was fraudulent, but if he gave value equal in FRNs to the goods he received, is it really theft? If nothing else the proprietor can sell the liberty dollar for the silver content alone and receive FRNs equal or greater in value to the goods he provided. So, where's the misappropriation or theft here? Don't get me wrong, he should be charged with something, like on federal charges of counterfeiting or something along those lines. Can someone explain it to me?

First, what makes you think he gave value equal in FRNs to the goods he received? I don't think a ALD20 has $20 of silver in it. It doesn't make economic sense to put $20+ of silver in a coin denominated at $20.

Second, unless a ALD20 is worth considerably more than $20, the seller won't be compensated for the inconvenience of converting the funny money into real money.

[notorial dissent]

According to the LD website, the ALD20 supposedly has 1 oz pure silver in it. At current spot price, that makes them worth $13. Current spot seems to be hovering between $12 and $13. Which means there is at least a $7 premium for each coin. To put it simply, you’re paying $20 for $13 dollars worth of silver and paying $7 for the privilege of doing so.

If I have an overwhelming desire to buy silver by the ounce I will buy it in ingots and avoid the surcharge, or buy real coins or commemoratives that will actually have some value down the road.

The rest of the problem is that the LD’s aren’t worth face value, and even the actual value can’t be certified, you will have to trade them at a discount, and then find someone who will take them, and they will want a further discount, a real way of using hard currency.

The only one making any money in this scam is von Nuthouse and he is selling to people who don’t have a clue or know any better and think they are pulling something.

[Randall]

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:06 pm
I was released this morning. I had to sign FOR the defendant, although I'm not the defendant. So, as an authorized agent using an authorized signature, I signed for SHAUN A KRANISH

Does he have a written authorization to be SHAUN A KRANISH's agent? If so, who signed for SHAUN? If not, he committed a fraud.

Also if he signed for SHAUN so that SHAUN can get out of jail, how did Shaun get out of jail?

[ASITStands]

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:06 pm
I was released this morning. I had to sign FOR the defendant, although I'm not the defendant. So, as an authorized agent using an authorized signature, I signed for SHAUN A KRANISH

Does he have a written authorization to be SHAUN A KRANISH's agent? If so, who signed for SHAUN? If not, he committed a fraud.

Also if he signed for SHAUN so that SHAUN can get out of jail, how did Shaun get out of jail?

Good questions. These sort of arguments always break down once confronted by reason or logic.

[wserra]

Good questions. These sort of arguments always break down once confronted by reason or logic.

These sorts of arguments always break down once confronted by anything that doesn't produce a flat EEG trace.