The Second Battle of Crawford's Castle, a Nottingham Farce...

[NG3]

...and pope

Unfortunately while I doubt anyone will produce a papal bull I suspect the Crawford's will continue to produce a different sort of bull.

[Pox]

If the house has gone by then (which I'd fully expect) then, yes, they may well drop the case.

In such circumstances, could a defendant sue for wrongful arrest?

They could, as can anybody else who has been arrested, but they would lose.

I was using the maxim of (maybe wrongly) innocent until proven guilty so if someone was arrested but not found guilty of an offence (because a case was dropped, for example)then such a person would have a justifiable reason to seek damages.
Didn't realise that 'just cause' would come into it.
Is it really that just cause would be a reason for a claim for compensation would be unsuccessful?
Is it really that just cause would be a reason for a claim to be unsuccessful?

[NG3]

I was using the maxim of (maybe wrongly) innocent until proven guilty so if someone was arrested but not found guilty of an offence (because a case was dropped, for example)then such a person would have a justifiable reason to seek damages.
Didn't realise that 'just cause' would come into it.
Is it really that just cause would be a reason for a claim for compensation would be unsuccessful?
Is it really that just cause would be a reason for a claim to be unsuccessful?

It's about legal thresholds, the police wouldn't have to prove the charge, just that there was reasonable grounds for arrest, which would easily be proved by the video alone.

"During the confrontation I felt a sharp pain, consistent with being kicked, that I suspected Mr Crawford was responsible for"

Play video showing obvious confrontation.

Case dismissed.

It would take less than 15 minutes

[noblepa]

Slightly off topic but could be of relevance.

This morning at Hereford Magistrate's Court, Tom Crawford's 'legal advisor' Guy Taylor was sentenced as follows:

12 month Community Order

150 hours of community work

£1,000 fine

Restraining Order imposed banning him from going near his previous property; Bodenham Manor or its new owner (Mr Davies).

I, a poor colonial, have a question about the above.

Community work is, I imagine, what we here in the colonies refer to as Community Service, volunteering at homeless shelters, schools, hospitals, etc.

The £1,000 fine and the restraining order are pretty self-explanatory.

But just what is a "Community Order"?

[NG3]

But just what is a "Community Order"?

A Community Order consists of at least one of 12 possible requirements. The requirement(s) will differ according to the individual offender and the offence committed. An order can run for up to three years. There is no minimum duration but some of the requirements have a minimum number of hours that must be imposed.

Requirements

Supervision

Requires the offender to attend regular appointments with probation. During the supervision period work will be undertaken with the offender to change attitudes and behaviour to help stop them reoffending.

Unpaid Work

Offenders carry out unpaid work ranging from 40-300 hours to benefit the local community. Also known as Community Payback.

Programmes

Aimed at changing an offender’s behaviour. These are accredited programmes designed to address the attitudes and patterns of behaviour that contribute to offending. For example a programme designed to address domestic abuse.

Drug Rehabilitation Requirement (DRR)

The offender is required to have treatment to address their drug misuse and drug related lifestyle. The offender will have to provide samples for testing when requested. A Drug Rehabilitation Requirement can be for between six months to three years.

Alcohol Treatment

The offender is required to attend treatment to reduce or eliminate dependence on alcohol.

Specified Activity

For example Care Farm Skills Training or education and training which can lead to an offender gaining qualifications.

Curfew

The offender must remain in an agreed place for specified hours. A curfew requirement is electronically monitored.

Residence

The offender must reside at a specified address for up to three years. This might be an Approved Premises or a private address.

Exclusion

The offender is excluded from entering a specified place or area for a period of up to two years. This might include certain streets or shops.

Prohibited Activity

The offender must refrain from participating in specified activities during a certain period for up to three years. For example, not attending a football match.

Mental Health Treatment

The offender may be required to undergo treatment for a mental health problem. This can be specified for up to three years.

Attendance Centre

The offender must attend at an attendance centre for between 12 and 36 hours. Only available for those under 25.

[Pox]

Is it really that just cause would be a reason for a claim to be unsuccessful?

It's about legal thresholds, the police wouldn't have to prove the charge, just that there was reasonable grounds for arrest, which would easily be proved by the video alone.

"During the confrontation I felt a sharp pain, consistent with being kicked, that I suspected Mr Crawford was responsible for"

Play video showing obvious confrontation.

Case dismissed.

It would take less than 15 minutes

Thanks for the explanation.
The reason that I questioned it is because I know a lot about someone (another FMOTL adherent) who has taken great delight in bringing legally aided cases against the police for wrongful arrest. (thankfully, last I heard he was no longer entitled to legal aid).
He has lost just about all his cases and has had costs of £30k ( up to around 2010, maybe more now)awarded against him as a result of numerous unsuccessful attempts to sue the police. As a 'man of straw' I am sure that the police will have given up on trying to recover their costs.
He is not on the list of vexatious litigants but this is essentially what he is.
I think of him as Teflon coated because the local force seem to treat him with kid gloves and off record, the 'boots on the ground ' have told me that the 'higher ups' have told them to be very careful when dealing with this individual because he just ends up costing them a lot of money.
I hope that Nottingham police don't drop the case and that they obtain a guilty verdict ( which we know already will be appealed at as many levels as possible) so that they don't leave themselves in the position that my local constabulary have found themselves in.

[Gregg]

It's a little like doing 51 in 50. It's only against the law IF you get caught. You never get credited for doing less than 50 do you. I think it would be interesting to see a film of what happens in there that's all. For heavens sake don't shoot me for a mere suggestion.

As it may be, this forum has decided to respect the law in the UK where it touches upon us, and any suggestion from you to do otherwise will not be tolerated, and I will, metaphorically speaking, shoot you and ask questions later like any good American would ( its a Second Amendment thing). I have a low tolerance for idiots, please don't test me.

[NG3]

Thanks for the explanation.

Many years ago I was arrested in a murder case, something I was obviously not happy about and so brought up wrongful arrest with my brief, who explained it to me, and why, even though I was innocent, I'd still lose the case, because they had grounds for the arrest.


NB. I was innocent and released without charge when they arrested the right guy.

[Skeleton]

But just what is a "Community Order"?

I wont repeat your whole reply again, but who decides which bits of it apply and for how long? In particular in Guys case anyone prepared to hazard a guess what applies?

I left the UK in 2???, i have heard of Community Service but not this Community Order thing. Is it new or a new name for something?, Apologies for the questions but it seems a cheap way of keeping someone out of prison.

[NG3]

I wont repeat your whole reply again, but who decides which bits of it apply and for how long?

The magistrate (or judge) usually based on a prosecution request and pre-sentence reports, usually carried out by probation (sometimes also by doctors, social workers etc. when relevant)

Apologies for the questions but it seems a cheap way of keeping someone out of prison.

That's pretty much what it is, and why/how it was introduced.

[AndyPandy]

Community Work is work supervised by the Probation Service, the Community Order is probably the Exclusion part and being used to keep him away from the place (his former home) where the offence was committed.

[guilty]

But just what is a "Community Order"?

I wont repeat your whole reply again, but who decides which bits of it apply and for how long? In particular in Guys case anyone prepared to hazard a guess what applies?

I left the UK in 2???, i have heard of Community Service but not this Community Order thing. Is it new or a new name for something?, Apologies for the questions but it seems a cheap way of keeping someone out of prison.

The Community Order is what the whole thing is called. As noted above, the Order can consist of any one or more of the 12 items.
What we call 'Community Service' is the 'Unpaid Work' element of the Order.
The judge decides which elements to apply.

[Gregg]

But just what is a "Community Order"?

I wont repeat your whole reply again, but who decides which bits of it apply and for how long? In particular in Guys case anyone prepared to hazard a guess what applies?

I left the UK in 2???, i have heard of Community Service but not this Community Order thing. Is it new or a new name for something?, Apologies for the questions but it seems a cheap way of keeping someone out of prison.

Its not terribly different than being on probation, you have some conditions to adhere to and if you break them you're in more trouble.

[Skeleton]

Ok, thanks for the replies, hopefully now i can keep up with the conversation, i appreciate your time.

[NG3]

What we call 'Community Service' is the 'Unpaid Work' element of the Order.

I have to confess that the sadistic side of my nature is somewhat eagerly awaiting the appearance of one of these loons, in probation issue high viz vest, painting railings in my neighbourhood...

[YiamCross]

As many have said above, a case of wrongful arrest does not automatically follow as a consequence of the charges being dropped or a not guilty verdict at court.

The arrest is justified by probable cause, if there's enough evidence to take them to court to answer a potential prosecution then there's more than enough to justify the arrest.

All the websites I have looked at regarding cases for wrongful arrest in the UK seem to share one prominent feature. Compensation.

I imagine, then with the double whammy of these fools being unable to comprehend the reasons why thier chances of succeeding with wrongful arrest suits are slim and zero allied with the lure of compensation there's a good chance any who have charges dropped or are found not guilty will be unable to resist the temptation. Especially since they are unlikely to engage the services of a qualified solicitor, let alone one with experience in the area.

The only interesting question is how many, even if found guilty, will give it a go. I wouldn't be surprised if there are one or two.

[guilty]

ETFOTB:

No retreat no surrender Tom you have them on the run.. We'll done x

Sounds like a well founded legal strategy Tom, well done mate.

[arayder]

ETFOTB:

No retreat no surrender Tom you have them on the run.. We'll done x

Sounds like a well founded legal strategy Tom, well done mate.

That's just plain delusional.

[bagman]

A MORE HONEST AVATAR FOR TOM CRAWFORD,
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/+Ste ... 6025099336

[GH132]

If the house has gone by then (which I'd fully expect) then, yes, they may well drop the case.

I think it will have to be demolished too. If there's a house still there it will be a magnet for the rent-a-mob morons to re-take. In 12 months time (perhaps when some people get out of prison) and there is an empty building plot there it doesn't have the same attraction.

Unfortunately (or fortunately as it's car crash TV) ... this crowd of idiots would turn up and pitch up a tent !