Peter of England: A REal guru.

[slowsmile]

Simple case of WeRe nowHeRe.

[morrand]

I've used two different check printers over the years, had one of them mis-key an acct number and they called me back on it.

Several of the accounting applications I've used over the years had check printing functions built in to them, we just bought the blank check stock and printed at need. T'ain't rocket science. I also worked for a company that got taken for several big chunks of change by customers who printed their own.

so does this mean that in your neck of the woods that any old Tom, dick or Harry can order a run of cheque books ? Or maybe you were/are in a professional position to do so?

Indeed, that is the routine practice here. Whenever I get to my last book of checks, for example, there's a slip from Deluxe Check on top, reminding me to reorder. Once upon a time, you would take that into the bank to place your order; more recently, as with everything else, the business has shifted online, and you order directly from them. The bank's only direct involvement is in paying Deluxe's charges. There are other companies out there competing for the business, too.

More to the point, anyone can print them off themselves. A quick Google search yields several hits for companies selling check paper; as far as I know, there are no restrictions on selling that here. (It is, of course, different in cheque-land, and it would appear that C&CC require businesses printing their own to buy supplies only from authorized suppliers.) If there are no restrictions on supplying the base stock, surely there are no restrictions on printing up something on that stock that happens to resemble a check, and may even be one. Using it for fraudulent purposes, of course, is another matter entirely.

The most egregious (legitimate) example that I can think of related to someone printing their own check had to do with a complaint I made about a malfunctioning pay telephone here many years ago. Illinois Bell promptly refunded my money (all 50¢ of it) by post card: the card was, itself, the check, with routing and account numbers, and all done on plain card stock rather than security paper. Now, it is entirely possible that Bell had a stock of check-cards printed up in advance with their numbers on them, but I'd like to think their payphones were more reliable than that. More likely, they just sent out the request to some third party, who printed and mailed cards on demand with whatever account information was applicable, and probably was nothing like a reputable check printing company. (The check cleared without a whimper of protest from my bank, by the way.)

I have to wonder what would happen if PoE happened to buy a ream of security paper (from overseas if necessary), and a stapler, and went into business printing his own Werechequebooks? I doubt he would, as the scam seems to have gone past that point now.

[notorial dissent]

I've used two different check printers over the years, had one of them mis-key an acct number and they called me back on it.

Several of the accounting applications I've used over the years had check printing functions built in to them, we just bought the blank check stock and printed at need. T'ain't rocket science. I also worked for a company that got taken for several big chunks of change by customers who printed their own.

so does this mean that in your neck of the woods that any old Tom, dick or Harry can order a run of cheque books ? Or maybe you were/are in a professional position to do so?
I can order checks if i want to from any number of sources, but they will all verify that the information I gave them is correct and valid with the bank in question. So to answer your question, yes, anyone can order checks for their own accounts. The ones I order come from the public version of the same printer my bank used at one time, at about a third the price.
Don't wish to pry into your personal circumstances but some are suggesting that a company that printed cheques for POE in the UK are somehow complicit in the alleged fraud that POE has brought about/committed/encouraged
I am suggesting that the printing company was probably/most likely derelict in their professional responsibility, yes, legally, in the UK, I have no idea, but I would suspect they have at the very least violated some professional rules, and most likely some legal points since they didn't properly vet their client. I can see someone going after the printer for damages since PoE doesn't and certainly won't after this is all over have the proverbial pot.
P.S. What happened to the customers who 'printed their own'?
It would have depended on whether or not they knew what they were doing, and more importantly could read and follow directions, which is usually a major point of fail. The main thing being that you have to be able to figure out which is the routing number/sort code and which is the account number, and where on the check the bank puts them. At the time most people wouldn't have known one from the other and I would suspect that it is still true to this day. The big issue with the print them yourself checks is that often the micr printing on the bottom of the check wasn't clear and they couldn't be read for processing and had to be manually done.

Incidentally, and fWIW, the bank/banks really could care less what the check is printed on, plain old paper will do fine as long as it fits the size requirements and is sturdy enough to deal with sorting machines. The only thing that is important to them is that the the micr information on the bottom of the check be readable and that the amount of the check legible so that it can be encoded. The rest is either decoration or security precautions for the customer to help prevent checks being tampered with.

[mufc1959]

He's alive! In response to a comment on his FB page (in the 20 July "Join ReMovement" post):

Alex Davie well do but weres the cheque book ive been whating for months now ,is this prommise ,a comefort to a fool,are we fools for wighting,are you giving fouls hope,can some one there give an explanation as im am be gining to loose faith and pations whateing.
Like · Reply · 15 hrs

Peter Of England Nothing sent via PayPal EVER unless you can show otherwise and £10 sent in April for joining ReMovement - never asked for a cheque book before except here - shill EMAIL SENT TO YOU FOLLOWS !Mr Davie.

This is confirmation of Re-Membership.
Button for cheque book purchase will be on the website sometime tomorrow!

Thanks for joining!
Like · 1 · 11 hrs · Edited

Alex Davie lots of membership fees ,how long be for you would stop making payments if nothing came forth exsept promisses of good things come to thoese who whaite ,then answer your emails and may be people wont get frustrated trying to get a reply
Like · Reply · 10 hrs

Alex Davie srilll
Like · Reply · 10 hrs

Alex Davie and ive kept emails sent
Like · Reply · 10 hrs

Alex Davie thanks for your re ply ,anyway at lest you did make the efort this time .
Like · Reply · 10 hrs

[YiamCross]

He's alive! In response to a comment on his FB page (in the 20 July "Join ReMovement" post):

[b...

Yes, but 20th July is a long time ago. He hasn't been heard from since as far as I know.

[mufc1959]

He's alive! In response to a comment on his FB page (in the 20 July "Join ReMovement" post):

[b...

Yes, but 20th July is a long time ago. He hasn't been heard from since as far as I know.

The responses quoted above were added just a few hours ago. Peter's reply was added last night.

[ArthurWankspittle]

Looking forward to hearing how this works out for him...

That could be interesting because at the next hearing the judge won't be happy he's been bullshitted to. Any sympathy the judge had for the homeowner just went out the window. This person isn't going to get 56 days to move out. They risk a contempt charge I think, plus, if the judge reports it or tells the lender to report it, you can be sure the Police will jump into action.

[Skeleton]

He's alive! In response to a comment on his FB page (in the 20 July "Join ReMovement" post):

Peter Of England Nothing sent via PayPal EVER unless you can show otherwise and £10 sent in April for joining ReMovement - never asked for a cheque book before except here - shill EMAIL SENT TO YOU FOLLOWS !Mr Davie.

This is confirmation of Re-Membership.
Button for cheque book purchase will be on the website sometime tomorrow!

Thanks for joining!
Like · 1 · 11 hrs · Edited

And worryingly it appears he is still very much in business.

[Losleones]

I'd suggest Mr. Davie needs a brain transplant given the fact these bouncy cheques have now been proved to be as useful as a chocolate fireguard. Seems a little bad tempered does Petey boy - must be running low on that nasty toxic stuff & is back for a final push to scam the freeloaders.

[YiamCross]

I remember back in the day when I could be bothered to mess around with car engines I occasionally encountered a magnetic sump plug. The idea being that any nasty bits of metal which could damage the engine would be caught by the magnet and prevented from being circulated around with the oil.

I wonder if PoE is not the human equivalent of the sump plug magnet, usefully attracting the kind of idiots who might cause damage to society into one place so they can be wiped up and discarded.

I've certainly lost any shred of sympathy I might have had for the idiots who join Werebank. They can't be very bright and they certainly have questionable morals, a combination which can never produce good results.

[guilty]

Looking forward to hearing how this works out for him...

I don't think the mortgage company needs to be 'ordered' to provide their banking details. You could just ask them, or look it up on their website, or have a look at your last statement from them.

[Skeleton]

Looking forward to hearing how this works out for him...

I don't think the mortgage company needs to be 'ordered' to provide their banking details. You could just ask them, or look it up on their website, or have a look at your last statement from them.

Course not, what our Goofyville friend actually meant to say was the Judge has ordered him to clear the debt within 7 days via a correct payment method and the account number and sort code if he wished to pay electronically were confirmed to him.

He is not going to admit to that on goofyland though, sounds far better "that he got the judge to order the bank" to give him the details. This has got car crash written all over it though. If i am reading that correctly he want's to try and transfer some Weird Bank Money electronically and is asking how. I can't see the Judge liking that very much.

[AndyPandy]

Looking forward to hearing how this works out for him...

I don't think the mortgage company needs to be 'ordered' to provide their banking details. You could just ask them, or look it up on their website, or have a look at your last statement from them.

Course not, what our Goofyville friend actually meant to say was the Judge has ordered him to clear the debt within 7 days via a correct payment method and the account number and sort code if he wished to pay electronically were confirmed to him.

He is not going to admit to that on goofyland though, sounds far better "that he got the judge to order the bank" to give him the details. This has got car crash written all over it though. If i am reading that correctly he want's to try and transfer some Weird Bank Money electronically and is asking how. I can't see the Judge liking that very much.

It's head in your hands stuff this, telling a Court you've 'paid' the mortgage but the mortgage Company has refused to accept the payment and now trying to do an 'electronic' transfer, they seriously can't be that stupid. That Judge is going to go ballistic !

[slowsmile]

It's head in your hands stuff this, telling a Court you've 'paid' the mortgage but the mortgage Company has refused to accept the payment and now trying to do an 'electronic' transfer, they seriously can't be that stupid. That Judge is going to go ballistic !

One thing 5 years or so of following the antics of Sovs / FoTL has taught me is never to underestimate how stupid they can be.

[AndyPandy]

It's head in your hands stuff this, telling a Court you've 'paid' the mortgage but the mortgage Company has refused to accept the payment and now trying to do an 'electronic' transfer, they seriously can't be that stupid. That Judge is going to go ballistic !

One thing 5 years or so of following the antics of Sovs / FoTL has taught me is never to underestimate how stupid they can be.

5 years of watching this type of drivel unfold , you're a better man than me !!

[Skeleton]

It's head in your hands stuff this, telling a Court you've 'paid' the mortgage but the mortgage Company has refused to accept the payment and now trying to do an 'electronic' transfer, they seriously can't be that stupid. That Judge is going to go ballistic !

One thing 5 years or so of following the antics of Sovs / FoTL has taught me is never to underestimate how stupid they can be.

5 years of watching this type of drivel unfold , you're a better man than me !!

I am already approaching the smash head off Computer desk repeatedly stage. I have seriously stopped looking at Amanda Pike quotes until there are about 5 replies translating her gibberish. I did not realise that people could be so stupid and be taken in by the likes of Ceylon etc but they are. It is like the bloke who "tested" the first idea of what later became the parachute by jumping off the Eiffel Tower, he is clearly not sure whether to jump but the inventor persuades him and sure enough splat. Inventor announces to world forget i killed him here is the Mk2 product.

[mufc1959]

Having dealt with thousands of repossessions in the early 1990s and having a peripheral connection with that side of things today, I know the courts are incredibly lenient with mortgage defaulters, granting suspended possession orders on the flimsiest of promises of payment. I'm guessing the judge has never heard of WeRe Bank, and so assumes (as apparently does the borrower) that a simple electronic transfer of funds can take place, as if it's a real bank.

We all know how it will end, but it seems the borrower may genuinely believe there are funds to transfer and that it can somehow be done other than by Peter deducting it from a spreadsheet. When the case comes back to court, if the borrower promises to pay the monthly instalment plus something off the arrears using actual money, he'll be okay, the court will suspend possession. But if he maintains that WeRe Bank is real and offers no other method of repaying his mortgage, the only outcome for him will be homelessness.

As it stands, I am 99.99% certain the lender's T&Cs will contain a provision that the mortgage debt must be repaid in full in certain circumstances - death of the borrower, bankruptcy, compulsory purchase order, etc. There is usually a provision that the mortgage debt is repayable in full immediately if the lender reasonably suspects the borrower to be involved in fraudulent activity. So if the lender wants to play hardball and demand immediate repayment of the whole balance, this will be even worse for the borrower. Inevitably a CIFAS market will be recorded against him, and no mortgage lender will touch him with a bargepole.

[AndyPandy]

Looking forward to hearing how this works out for him...

So has anyone pointed out to them on that forum that basically, they're screwed ??

[longdog]

It is like the bloke who "tested" the first idea of what later became the parachute by jumping off the Eiffel Tower, he is clearly not sure whether to jump but the inventor persuades him and sure enough splat. Inventor announces to world forget i killed him here is the Mk2 product.

Nope... That was the inventor. He told the authorities he was going to use a dummy and then, against all the pleadings of his friends, he jumped himself and well... Weeeee... Splat!

[Skeleton]

Having dealt with thousands of repossessions in the early 1990s and having a peripheral connection with that side of things today, I know the courts are incredibly lenient with mortgage defaulters, granting suspended possession orders on the flimsiest of promises of payment. I'm guessing the judge has never heard of WeRe Bank, and so assumes (as apparently does the borrower) that a simple electronic transfer of funds can take place, as if it's a real bank.

We all know how it will end, but it seems the borrower may genuinely believe there are funds to transfer and that it can somehow be done other than by Peter deducting it from a spreadsheet. When the case comes back to court, if the borrower promises to pay the monthly instalment plus something off the arrears using actual money, he'll be okay, the court will suspend possession. But if he maintains that WeRe Bank is real and offers no other method of repaying his mortgage, the only outcome for him will be homelessness.

As it stands, I am 99.99% certain the lender's T&Cs will contain a provision that the mortgage debt must be repaid in full in certain circumstances - death of the borrower, bankruptcy, compulsory purchase order, etc. There is usually a provision that the mortgage debt is repayable in full immediately if the lender reasonably suspects the borrower to be involved in fraudulent activity. So if the lender wants to play hardball and demand immediate repayment of the whole balance, this will be even worse for the borrower. Inevitably a CIFAS market will be recorded against him, and no mortgage lender will touch him with a bargepole.

Good post and it crosses over into Tom Crawford land, numerous opportunities offered and numerous opportunities refused to sort it out. Mortgage companies for the reasons you state simply do not want to kick you out. I left the RAF, i had a job to go to but it was 3 months away, i missed one mortgage repayment by clerical error as i changed banks, phoned them up to apologise, penalty payment was immediately removed and an offer should i be struggling of a 3 month sabbatical which i refused. I get so angry at You Tube lawyers and FMOTL etc suggesting the Bailiffs are sent in by the Banks because they can. You have a Bailiff at your door for a private debt, mortgage etc, you have not helped yourself for a long period of time, that simple.